What skills determine ability levels?

[markojp]

You can get pretty close just watching someone making their way to the lift.

 

[Don in Morrison]

No one will fit each level exactly. You might be a little better at one thing in the next level, or worse at something in the current level.
.

Yeah, I'm that guy. Sometimes on the same day. Occasionally on the same run.

 

[Monique]

By the time your instructor has chatted with you on the lift ride and watched you get off the lift, they've probably already determined what "level" you are. Any proclamation you made (i.e., "I'm a level eight!") only served to tell them how delusional you are regarding your skiing abilities.

Unfortunately, by that point you're already in an assigned group, and switching may be more trouble than it's worth (to the ski school).

Context matters. A lot. When I was pretty sure I was a level 8 according to our lesson series, I stood under the level 9 sign for a holiday "regular" lesson, figuring that traveling visitors would gauge their abilities one above what I would. I was almost right. They were solid 7s.

When you mostly ski, say, mid-Atlantic (as I did as a teen), the terrain and possibilities are much more limited, so you compare yourself to what you see around you.

Yeah, I'm that guy. Sometimes on the same day. Occasionally on the same run.

I think I've said this before. Some days I'm a level 9, some days a level 6. *shrug* It's key to recognize what's going on and ski (or bail) accordingly. That's good skiing.

 

[dbostedo]

... ski instructors always over analyze everything. ...

And an engineer, I resemble that remark.

One's man's "over analysis" is another man's "just getting started"...

 

[dlague]

I think I've said this before. Some days I'm a level 9, some days a level 6. *shrug* It's key to recognize what's going on and ski (or bail) accordingly. That's good skiing.

I get that thinking! A lot depends on the snow and conditions.

 

[Monique]

And an engineer, I resemble that remark.

One's man's "over analysis" is another man's "just getting started"...

As one instructor tells me when I ask too many detailed questions: "We can discuss that at the Quandry tonight." (Note - this is not a come on. It's just where a lot of the ski instructors hang out after work.)

 

[KevinF]

You can get pretty close just watching someone making their way to the lift.

I had a memorable group lesson at Killington once. It was for a bumps clinic thing. They sent out two instructors for the group of 10 victims, errr, students.

At any rate, there was some quick intro ("I'm Steve, this is Carl, let's go") and Steve started skating to the lift. First five who got to the lift went with him. The rest went with "Carl". I was one of the first five. From my perspective, the split worked out pretty well. No idea how the other group fared, but it's always stuck with me as being a novel way to split a group. Who's already clicked into skis and raring to go and who isn't? Who can skate and who can't?

 

[Monique]

I get that thinking! A lot depends on the snow and conditions.

For sure, but more (for me) depends on the mood, brain, and body. Technically, a level 9 should not be impacted by conditions and snow quality ... otherwise they're not a level 9. So really I'm not a level 9, ever.

 

[Monique]

I had a memorable group lesson at Killington once. It was for a bumps clinic thing. They sent out two instructors for the group of 10 victims, errr, students.

At any rate, there was some quick intro ("I'm Steve, this is Carl, let's go") and Steve started skating to the lift. First five who got to the lift went with him. The rest went with "Carl". I was one of the first five. From my perspective, the split worked out pretty well. No idea how the other group fared, but it's always stuck with me as being a novel way to split a group. Who's already clicked into skis and raring to go and who isn't? Who can skate and who can't?

I like it.

An instructor once split my group by having us ski X number of short radius turns. The N people farthest up the slope went with one group, the N people farthest down went with the other. IIRC, some people felt it was unfair because they hadn't understood the intent of the drill, but I gather at the end, everyone got what they wanted out of the lessons.

 

[Large Squirrel]

I like it.

An instructor once split my group by having us ski X number of short radius turns. The N people farthest up the slope went with one group, the N people farthest down went with the other. IIRC, some people felt it was unfair because they hadn't understood the intent of the drill, but I gather at the end, everyone got what they wanted out of the lessons.

Yeah, there def was confusion in that rack and stack method (from what I was told afterwards). I put the fault on the instructor there for not being clear with the intent and/or making sure everyone in that large group understood what was being asked of them.

 

[KingGrump]

Skiers that participate in the ski week program at Taos usually have to do the ski off. The ski off is about 10 turns on a flat-ish section on top of chair 5.

The usual question by new guests to the instructors is "How can you tell what level I am with 10 turns?"
One of the best answer came from one of the SSD doing the split. He said "We needed 10 turns because I'm usually talking to another instructor and missed your first nine.
Another senior instructor chimed in and said, "We can usually can tell where you belong just by looking at you standing there."

The funny thing they usually nail it dead on.

 

[markojp]

Unfortunately, by that point you're already in an assigned group, and switching may be more trouble than it's worth (to the ski school).

That's a shame.

 

[markojp]

I had a memorable group lesson at Killington once. It was for a bumps clinic thing. They sent out two instructors for the group of 10 victims, errr, students.

At any rate, there was some quick intro ("I'm Steve, this is Carl, let's go") and Steve started skating to the lift. First five who got to the lift went with him. The rest went with "Carl". I was one of the first five. From my perspective, the split worked out pretty well. No idea how the other group fared, but it's always stuck with me as being a novel way to split a group. Who's already clicked into skis and raring to go and who isn't? Who can skate and who can't?

See?

 

[Rod9301]

here's another thing that bugs me about the use of "ski ability" labels: ski selection. the ski industry loves to paint skis as "expert" or "intermediate/beginner" skis. I am average height but light in weight, so for me the typical "expert" ski (two layers of metal, etc. etc. etc.) is way too stiff. I get cautious when looking at what's labeled an "intermediate/beginner" ski, and have that ski turn out to be too soft of flex for me with little edge grip, no stability at speed, and little torsional strength and rigidity. so, I have to take all written reviews with more than a grain of salt when looking for skis. I guess that's why we demo skis before we buy, right?

Hard to believe that, since many women ski on metal, stiff skis, she have no problem bending them.

 

[mdf]

Skiers that participate in the ski week program at Taos usually have to do the ski off. The ski off is about 10 turns on a flat-ish section on top of chair 5.

Actually, it is not only flat, it is short. Getting ten turns in there is tough. I think it's been awhile since you did a ski off where they didn't already know you.

Before my ski-off, the new ski school director had eliminated them and substituted an a well-intentioned but unworkable talk-based grouping. I arrived that morning, running a little late, to discover the ski-off had been re-instituted but the news hadn't filtered down to the people working the ski school desk!

 

[Large Squirrel]

Hard to believe that, since many women ski on metal, stiff skis, she have no problem bending them.

what's hard to believe? i have no qualms admitting that there are plenty of women out there who are a) stronger/better skier than i am, and b) weigh a lot more than me, and therefore can fully bend a very stiff ski that i cannot......so i really don't know what you are trying to get at here.

now, i'm sure that there are loads of women (and men) out there who prefer a stiff ski and really aren't bending them at all (or perhaps minimally), but think that they are and think that they feel forced to ski a ski that might not be the best one out there for them just b/c they want an "expert" ski to validate their perceived skiing level/ability.

 

[mdf]

^I agree. I usually like a ski that is relatively soft for my weight (which is a lot more than yours, so a much wider selection). I have demoed a few runs on a super stiff ski and enjoyed the hard-charging "no speed limit" feel for a run or two, but wouldn't want it as a regular diet.

 

[KingGrump]

Actually, it is not only flat, it is short. Getting ten turns in there is tough. I think it's been awhile since you did a ski off where they didn't already know you.

Before my ski-off, the new ski school director had eliminated them and substituted an a well-intentioned but unworkable talk-based grouping. I arrived that morning, running a little late, to discover the ski-off had been re-instituted but the news hadn't filtered down to the people working the ski school desk!

You did good that week. IIRC, you were in a very capable class. More than anything else, it saved your body and energy for the afternoon boot camp.

Even though usually I already selected my instructor for the week. I still ski down through the ski off area. I usually do about 2 turns there. Jean still calls out a level number for me. It's already the same number. He really don't know I am assigned already. Hmmm, come to think of it, it may be his way to flatter me. Have to talk to him about it.

Mamie has a routine for the ski off. She calls it "10 turns to level 10." It works for her. Gets her into the top classes. Only time I have ever seen her go balls to the wall.

That three months of verbal split was some of the biggest cluster I have ever seen in my life at Taos.It is so easy for most skiers to take one of the ability level charts posted at the earlier part of the thread and go "Yeah, I can do that". Then they look at themselves in the proverbial fun house mirror and come up with an inflated ability level number. Unfortunately (or fortunately), Taos' unforgiving terrain aren't tolerant of delusions. It definitely does not do kinder and gentler. All the instructors were very happy that was over.

 

[mdf]

With the talk-vs-action confusion and my tendency to lateness, it was not only my first turn of the morning, but also the first time I had been on that pitch. I remember thinking "uh-oh, if I don't turn at all that won't be good." I skated a bit to get a little speed before my first turn.

 

[Monique]

That's a shame.

Yes. I'm not an instructor, so I don't see the wide world of ski groups, so who knows.

But in "random" ski lesson groups, at Breck from what I've seen the groups usually do at least one pass back through the ski school lineup in case there needs to be a swap. For higher level groups, that's at Vista House (Haus?), so at least you don't have to go down to the bottom of Peak 8 (Yuck!).

I usually like a ski that is relatively soft for my weight (which is a lot more than yours, so a much wider selection).

Me, too.