What skills determine ability levels?

[Chris Walker]

When you mostly ski, say, mid-Atlantic (as I did as a teen), the terrain and possibilities are much more limited, so you compare yourself to what you see around you.

Heh heh, yeah. I grew up skiing in Ohio. I thought I was Jean Claude Killy when I got to Colorado. Getting beat by forty 12-year-olds in my first USSA race in college was a real eye-opener!

 

[Pequenita]

Oh, good point! But wait, do they ever say backside? Or just frontside?

K2 does.

 

[Olesya C]

Skiers that participate in the ski week program at Taos usually have to do the ski off. The ski off is about 10 turns on a flat-ish section on top of chair 5.

The usual question by new guests to the instructors is "How can you tell what level I am with 10 turns?"
One of the best answer came from one of the SSD doing the split. He said "We needed 10 turns because I'm usually talking to another instructor and missed your first nine.
Another senior instructor chimed in and said, "We can usually can tell where you belong just by looking at you standing there."

The funny thing they usually nail it dead on.

While I agree you and it's probably true for most cases it was different for me. I was placed in a higher level group after ski off at Taos ski week than I was comfortable with. I am one of those strange cases when I have good technique because of many lessons, but don't have the mileage to mentally handle some of the more challenging ungroomed terrain/bumps/trees/etc. When the instructor of the group I was placed into initially after ski off started talking about the terrain they wanted to ski I asked to be moved into a lower level group. Then I was placed in a group that was too low in ability because of how I described my skiing ability. Long story short I had to switch groups the next day and I got into a group that was an in between level between the 2 groups they were trying to put me after the ski off and it was perfect! One of my ski friends I was skiing with who is an advanced/expert skier was in the group I was initially assigned to right after ski off and I later found out that this group was skiing off Kachina and lower half of West Ridge on their 2nd and 3rd day of ski week. I was definitely not ready to ski that terrain - I would have survived it probably, but I would not have enjoyed it at all.

I learned to ski as an adult somewhat recently so fear is something I have to work through much more than someone whoe learned to ski as child/teenager. One of the comments I got from my ski week instructor towards the end of the ski week was - "I don't understand how someone with your technique and coordination can't ski more challenging terrain." I need more mileage (or that is what I think) to get there.

I loved Taos ski week and going back for another Taos ski week this year, but the ski off while works for most skiers, is not universal. Although that's true with everything.

 

[Crank]

While I agree you and it's probably true for most cases it was different for me. I was placed in a higher level group after ski off at Taos ski week than I was comfortable with. I am one of those strange cases when I have good technique because of many lessons, but don't have the mileage to mentally handle some of the more challenging ungroomed terrain/bumps/trees/etc. When the instructor of the group I was placed into initially after ski off started talking about the terrain they wanted to ski I asked to be moved into a lower level group. Then I was placed in a group that was too low in ability because of how I described my skiing ability. Long story short I had to switch groups the next day and I got into a group that was an in between level between the 2 groups they were trying to put me after the ski off and it was perfect! One of my ski friends I was skiing with who is an advanced/expert skier was in the group I was initially assigned to right after ski off and I later found out that this group was skiing off Kachina and lower half of West Ridge on their 2nd and 3rd day of ski week. I was definitely not ready to ski that terrain - I would have survived it probably, but I would not have enjoyed it at all.

I learned to ski as an adult somewhat recently so fear is something I have to work through much more than someone whoe learned to ski as child/teenager. One of the comments I got from my ski week instructor towards the end of the ski week was - "I don't understand how someone with your technique and coordination can't ski more challenging terrain." I need more mileage (or that is what I think) to get there.

I loved Taos ski week and going back for another Taos ski week this year, but the ski off while works for most skiers, is not universal. Although that's true with everything.

Interesting to me because my girlfriend, Robin, had a similar but opposite issue at Taos' ski week. She is an advanced skier who does not have good looking technique and was placed in a group with much lower level skiers. She is not one to speak up in that sort of situation and spent the week bored with the lessons and waiting for others in her group. We are also going to Taos this season and it is taking a lot of convincing to get her to to sign up for the ski week this time around.

 

[KevinF]

I learned to ski as an adult somewhat recently so fear is something I have to work through much more than someone whoe learned to ski as child/teenager. One of the comments I got from my ski week instructor towards the end of the ski week was - "I don't understand how someone with your technique and coordination can't ski more challenging terrain." I need more mileage (or that is what I think) to get there.

I didn't realize I had a twin.

 

[Varmintmist]

By the time your instructor has chatted with you on the lift ride and watched you get off the lift, they've probably already determined what "level" you are. Any proclamation you made (i.e., "I'm a level eight!") only served to tell them how delusional you are regarding your skiing abilities.

And I'm only joking a little...

Worked in the service industry for 30+ years. Finding out what the customer needs vs what they imagine is why my title should end in Detective of DDS. Its like pulling teeth after you can get the right patient into the seat.

Any way you cut it, you have to form a baseline. I am looking to take a lesson on the trip to VT this year. To book early, you have to choose honestly by the levels. If I elevate myself high or low, it wont do me any good or get the right instructor there and we will waste time that I am paying for. Now, I am financially OK, one main reason is because I hate pissing away money. If I am paying for something I want the most I can get out of it. Scrooge McDuck is my spirit animal.

https://www.okemo.com/mountain-info/ski-ride-school/private-lessons/

Their levels for the school are a bit different, but the premise is the same

 

[Monique]

She is an advanced skier who does not have good looking technique and was placed in a group with much lower level skiers. She is not one to speak up in that sort of situation and spent the week bored with the lessons and waiting for others in her group.

I'm confused by this assertion. I don't know anyone who skis well, but looks bad doing it. I know some folks who don't ski that well, but have tactics allowing them to get down anything. At the risk of sounding like a jerk, is it possible that she is not an advanced skier, but has learned to become comfortable on challenging terrain with iffy technique? Or are you saying she just had an off moment in the ski off? I've gotten frustrated with a slow pace, but that's not necessarily a sign I'm in the wrong group. Sometimes it's a sign I'm having trouble with the current task and am reverting to just skiing, rather than continuing to try the drill.

Or perhaps she was in a group for her skill level, but not her pacing?

 

[KingGrump]

While I agree you and it's probably true for most cases it was different for me. I was placed in a higher level group after ski off at Taos ski week than I was comfortable with. I am one of those strange cases when I have good technique because of many lessons, but don't have the mileage to mentally handle some of the more challenging ungroomed terrain/bumps/trees/etc. When the instructor of the group I was placed into initially after ski off started talking about the terrain they wanted to ski I asked to be moved into a lower level group. Then I was placed in a group that was too low in ability because of how I described my skiing ability. Long story short I had to switch groups the next day and I got into a group that was an in between level between the 2 groups they were trying to put me after the ski off and it was perfect! One of my ski friends I was skiing with who is an advanced/expert skier was in the group I was initially assigned to right after ski off and I later found out that this group was skiing off Kachina and lower half of West Ridge on their 2nd and 3rd day of ski week. I was definitely not ready to ski that terrain - I would have survived it probably, but I would not have enjoyed it at all.

I learned to ski as an adult somewhat recently so fear is something I have to work through much more than someone whoe learned to ski as child/teenager. One of the comments I got from my ski week instructor towards the end of the ski week was - "I don't understand how someone with your technique and coordination can't ski more challenging terrain." I need more mileage (or that is what I think) to get there.

I loved Taos ski week and going back for another Taos ski week this year, but the ski off while works for most skiers, is not universal. Although that's true with everything.

I agree with you there is a big mental component to skiing. Tough to gauge it on flat terrain. Mileage is probably the best fix. Work up the scale slowly. Getting over terrain is no fun. Usually will set you back.

Not sure you whether you were told that there are two sections to the ski off. A instructor is usually tasked with conveying the info at the top of chair 5. On your next ski off. look for the instructor at the unloading area of chair 5. He/she will direct you to the normal people section of the ski off. Usually normal people on the skiers' left and wacks on skiers' right. If you see a short little French with a heavy French accent, you are on the wrong side. Pretty sure the two sections do not share instructors.

Anyway, if you are in Taos this coming season, give me a shout. If I am there, we can make a few turns together.

 

[Crank]

I'm confused by this assertion. I don't know anyone who skis well, but looks bad doing it. I know some folks who don't ski that well, but have tactics allowing them to get down anything. At the risk of sounding like a jerk, is it possible that she is not an advanced skier, but has learned to become comfortable on challenging terrain with iffy technique? Or are you saying she just had an off moment in the ski off? I've gotten frustrated with a slow pace, but that's not necessarily a sign I'm in the wrong group. Sometimes it's a sign I'm having trouble with the current task and am reverting to just skiing, rather than continuing to try the drill.

Or perhaps she was in a group for her skill level, but not her pacing?

I have know plenty of advanced skiers who did not have textbook technique yet have a great time skiing steeps, woods, can handle varied snow conditions. She is one of them. She skids more than carves and she bends at the waist and yet she loves bumps and trees and can hang just fine with a group of good skiers on sketchy terrain... OK sometimes I have to wait for her but she is worth waiting for!

I think you actually met her at Aspen though I don't think we all skied together.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Takes a fair amount of hubris to decide the fate of someone's ski vacation based on one turn.

 

[Blue Streak]

Bucket List
Taos Ski Week

 

[Crank]

Takes a fair amount of hubris to decide the fate of someone's ski vacation based on one turn.

We are talking about ski instructors here. lol

 

[Crank]

Interesting that folks mentioned they can often tell just by looking at someone whether or not they are a good skier. I tend to feel the same way. What is it though? Is it their gear or clothing? Or is it the way they carry themselves or their skis?

As a musician, I find many really good players have beat up and maybe not the best gear but can make it sound great. If someone shows up with a shiny new, expensive drum kit or a bunch of high dollar guitars, etc I am immediately suspicious as I have run across many who suck and just have the $ to buy gear but have not put in the time to hone their skills.

 

[KingGrump]

I'm confused by this assertion. I don't know anyone who skis well, but looks bad doing it. I know some folks who don't ski that well, but have tactics allowing them to get down anything. At the risk of sounding like a jerk, is it possible that she is not an advanced skier, but has learned to become comfortable on challenging terrain with iffy technique? Or are you saying she just had an off moment in the ski off? I've gotten frustrated with a slow pace, but that's not necessarily a sign I'm in the wrong group. Sometimes it's a sign I'm having trouble with the current task and am reverting to just skiing, rather than continuing to try the drill.

Or perhaps she was in a group for her skill level, but not her pacing?

Rather than narrow our definition of skier ability. Perhaps we should look at the components parts. Self assessment wise, I like Bud Heisman's T.E.P.P. T - Technique/Tactic, E - Equipment, P - Physical, P - Psychology. I like to look at it as four legs on a table. If the legs on the table are not even the table will wobble. IMO, most skier's table wobble because they ski to the limit of their strength. Most find the wobble exhilarating and no additional corrections are required.

Most will try to lengthen the short legs to correct the wobble. To me a quicker method that will yield results is to take the table out to the beach. Set the table on top of wet sand and apply downward pressure until the shortest leg make contact with the sand. Now the table is stable. Takes a lot of internal discipline to ski to the limit of the shortest leg. Difference between endurance and sustainability.

 

[Blue Streak]

And before the tide comes in put some lobsters and corn on the cob on that beach table

 

[DanoT]

I'm confused by this assertion. I don't know anyone who skis well, but looks bad doing it.

As a person who is not very athletic but has a ton of experience (average 80 day/year since 1974), I rate my skiing as "Advanced flail-er". Maybe this is why I like tree skiing because when that tree is coming up fast, it's turn 'em any way you can. There are no style points in the trees.

The experience thing is important to me because whenever I am in ugly terrain or conditions I always say to myself, "No problem, I have skied worse so it is time to kick into survival skiing." Again there are no style points and the perfect ski instructor turn doesn't apply.

 

[Chris Walker]

The T and the second P or the T.E.P.P. are of particular interest to me. I think there is often a divergence in one's self-assessment of the T versus the state of the second P, as @Monique has alluded to. I have recounted how during more than one stage of my life, my comfort level (Psychology) getting down difficult terrain has led me to believe there was not room for improvement in my skills (Technique/Tactic), resulting in no desire to take lessons, practice drills, etc. A lot of people will say "well as long as you are having fun it doesn't matter how good your technique is," or words to that effect.

I'm sure there's some truth to that but I have personally found that every incremental improvement in my skill level has resulted in much higher levels of enjoyment of the sport. It's one thing to be able to "handle" a difficult section of terrain in varied snow conditions. It's a different feeling altogether to be able to feel like you really skied it. For me, those dividends are worth every second spent in "boring, repetitive" drills on gentle terrain, etc. I only wish I'd come to this realization earlier. But then again I genuinely enjoy the process of "working" on my technique. If I'm sliding on snow I'm having fun.

YMMV

 

[KevinF]

Interesting that folks mentioned they can often tell just by looking at someone whether or not they are a good skier. I tend to feel the same way. What is it though? Is it their gear or clothing? Or is it the way they carry themselves or their skis?

As a musician, I find many really good players have beat up and maybe not the best gear but can make it sound great. If someone shows up with a shiny new, expensive drum kit or a bunch of high dollar guitars, etc I am immediately suspicious as I have run across many who suck and just have the $ to buy gear but have not put in the time to hone their skills.

To me, it's simple -- really good skiers are always in motion. There's no "holding" of a position, there's no static traverses where the ski has lost all of its energy out of the old turn, etc. I don't care if you're bouncing slalom turns straight down the fall line or hauling super-G sized turns, they're never static.

 

[KingGrump]

Takes a fair amount of hubris to decide the fate of someone's ski vacation based on one turn.

They are actually protecting the skiers from themselves.
Some the upper ski week groups is more like the Steep & Deep Camp at JH or some of the clinics held by Extreme Canadian at W/B.
Taos is one of the few places where a skier can find themselves way over terrain quick. Literally in a heart beat.
The instructors' job is to make sure everybody have a good time and not turn the ski week into a body recovery mission. BTDT.

 

[Large Squirrel]

To me, it's simple -- really good skiers are always in motion. There's no "holding" of a position, there's no static traverses where the ski has lost all of its energy out of the old turn, etc. I don't care if you're bouncing slalom turns straight down the fall line or hauling super-G sized turns, they're never static.

I totally agree.....something I strive for in my skiing.