What skills determine ability levels?

[Eddie S]

This topic has probably been covered before on the forum; if so, I apologize for dredging it up again, and for not being able to find it from a search.

What skills and expertise differentiate an advanced skier from an intermediate skier, and an expert skier from an advanced one? These are just names and classifications, of course, and for skiers who ski for pleasure rather than bragging rights, I suppose they mean little. But we all strive to improve, and the fun of skiing usually heightens with our ability to enjoy more diverse and challenging terrain. I'm just curious as to where I am on the scale of things...

Cheers
Eddie

 

[raytseng]

before digging up threads and the arguments /discussion, suggest you just google ski ability levels and you will see the descriptions of 1 through 9 from various resort ski schools. the importance here is so you know which class to sign up for to improve.

however you need to think of it multidimensionally or like an rpg video game. there are many different ski skills and you can have different ability levels in each dimension.
if you want to boil all that down into 1 number or 1 description that can be done with different perspectives.

can one be an expert if they dont do the big jumps and tricks in the park? or vice versa cannot do race slalom? or can't ski backwards? ultimately does it matter?

after you graduate past general ski school, you probably are looking at specific skills rather than labels
by the time youre up there you are a 8 and you want to improve your park then you ask for a park instructor to teach you tricks. or if you want moguls then you sign up for a moguls lesson , or a backcountry lesson or a steeps and drops lesson, or racing lesson from a racing coach.

 

[graham418]

Here is the list of skills required for different steps at the ski school for our club. I think this is straight from CSIA

NTSC ALPINE SKI STEP LEVELS
Our ski school uses Step levels to determine ability levels of students. The purpose is to facilitate group lessons with similar ski ability, ski pace and improvement goals - which makes those lessons the most productive and the most fun. You can track your development in your Progress Book. Your instructor will fill in the book at the end of your lesson with your goal and strategies for improvement. When you are ready for the next Step level, your instructor will make the recommendation and inform you of next steps.

STEP 1

• Consistently link wedge type turns, on beginner terrain

STEP 2

• Match the skis parallel at the end of the turn, on novice (green) terrain

STEP 3

• Ski parallel through the last ½ of the turn, on novice (green) terrain
• Balance on outside ski in control

STEP 4

• Ski with rhythm & edge control, but still using a slight wedge on intermediate (blue) terrain
• The lower body consistently contributes to the turning effort
• Development of balance against outside ski and demonstrates control

STEP 5

• Make consistent parallel turns with a consistent pole plant on intermediate (blue) terrain
• Demonstration of some pressure control through appropriate mobility
• Able to apply edging after the fall line
• Can ski on slightly bumpy terrain but requires improvement with timing and balance

STEP 6

• Make consistent parallel turns, with rhythm & edge control, on intermediate (blue) terrain
• Improved mobility that assists balance
• Improved timing and coordination with pole plant
• Able to demonstrate varied radius turns and a better adaptation to different conditions
• Improvement of pressure control through flexion and angulation movement
• Turning effort comes from the lower body resulting in natural upper and lower body separation

STEP 7

• Make consistent parallel turns, with rhythm & edge control, on intermediate (blue) and some advanced (black) terrain
• Students should be skiing above the standards of a Level 1 CSIA ski instructor
• Able to link parallel turns at a variety of speeds, turn shapes and snow conditions on intermediate (blue) terrain
• Able to adapt skills to bumps on beginner (green) and some intermediate (blue) terrain
• Demonstrates pressure control through inclination and angulation and appropriate mobility for balance and control
• Turning effort comes from the lower body resulting in upper and lower body separation and balancing on edge of outside ski after the fall line

STEP 8

• Dynamic, rhythmical shorter radius parallel turns (consistent, symmetrical turns) on advanced (black) terrain
• Students should ski near the standard of a Level 2 CSIA ski instructor
• Able to link parallel turns at a variety of speeds, turn shapes and snow conditions on intermediate (blue) terrain
• Able to adapt skills to bumps on intermediate (blue) terrain
• Improved pressure control through inclination and angulation achieved through natural mobility and coordination
• Turning effort comes from the lower body resulting in upper and lower body separation
• Balance on edges by or before the fall line

STEP 9

• Link advanced parallel turns in bumps on intermediate (blue) & some advanced (black) terrain
• Students should ski above the standards of a Level 2 CSIA ski instructor
• Able to link parallel turns at a variety of speeds, turn shapes and snow conditions on intermediate (blue) and most advanced (black) terrain
• Able to demonstrate a variation of turn radius during the same run
• Demonstrate the ability to consistently increase/decrease edging through a blend of inclination and angulation with both edges changing together
• Demonstrate consistent, round and symmetrical turn shapes
• Skis are always parallel

STEP 10

• Dynamic parallel turns, with rhythm, speed and control on advanced (black) and some expert varied terrain
• Students should ski above the standards of a Level 3 CSIA ski instructor
• Able to adapt skills to bumps on advanced (black) and some expert terrain, varied terrain and snow conditions
• Able to link parallel turns at higher speeds, a variety of turn shapes and snow conditions on intermediate (blue) and advanced (black) terrain
• Turning effort comes from the lower body throughout the turn
• Improved ability to consistently increase/decrease edging through a blend of inclination and angulation with both edges changing

This should give you some idea of what skills you need to acquire for each step level

 

[Philpug]

Here is an over simplification:
Beginner: All of the terrain, none of the time
Novice: Some of the terrain, some of the time
Intermediate: Some of the terrain, most of the time
Advanced: Most of the terrain, most of the time
Expert: All of the terrain, all of the time.

The Traditional "Learing Pyramid" starts wide at the bottom they is small at the top, IMHO the learning pyramid with skiing is the exact opposite, all beginners are basically the same, then as you improve is when you get more options and maybe some specialties like as @raytseng said racing or freestyle/park.

 

[KingGrump]

As Ray said, it's just a number that you can find with google. Find where you find in the chart and there you are. It's a pretty rough process. The resorts associated with PSIA generally use a 1-9 scale. Most Canadian resorts associated with CSIA uses a 1-6 scale.

@graham418 , I am not familiar with the acronym NTSC. What does it stand for?

@Eddie S when you are doing the self assessment and evaluation, take into consideration of the fun house mirror effect.

In the eternal infinite wisdom of Josh, "Most skier rate themselves on the terrain they skied rather than the way they skied it."

 

[graham418]

I am not familiar with the acronym NTSC. What does it stand for?

North Toronto Ski Club

 

[Read Blinn]

It gets even messier when a skier is accomplished at certain higher level skills, but not at others. Where does he or she place? The lower level or between? That's what makes these ranking systems imprecise at best.

 

[DanoT]

As Ray said, it's just a number that you can find with google. Find where you find in the chart and there you are. It's a pretty rough process. The resorts associated with PSIA generally use a 1-9 scale. Most Canadian resorts associated with CSIA uses a 1-6 scale.

@graham418 , I am not familiar with the acronym NTSC. What does it stand for?

@Eddie S when you are doing the self assessment and evaluation, take into consideration of the fun house mirror effect.

In the eternal infinite wisdom of Josh, "Most skier rate themselves on the terrain they skied rather than the way they skied it."

The part in bold is certainly true and more so for the "I taught myself to ski by watching Youtube and reading a book" crowd.

 

[DanoT]

North Toronto Ski Club

I know Toronto is big, but does this mean that there is also a South, West, and East Toronto Ski Club?

 

[mdf]

It is a minor difference, but to me the word "step" in the 3rd post reads much better than the "levels" I am used to seeing. It suggests something you do (and progress through), not something you "are". Maybe it helps with the intermediate plateau?

 

[graham418]

I know Toronto is big, but does this mean that there is also a South, West, and East Toronto Ski Club?

No , but there is a Toronto Ski Club, which is a private club operating out of Blue Mountain.

 

[Jilly]

When I was teaching we used the CSIA Step program too. Are the U-tube video's still around?

 

[Blue Streak]

Seriously, the correct answer is "all of them. "
The process of perfecting all of the skills, and then blending them to suit the terrain and the skier's idea of fun at the moment, is what it's all about.

 

[Monique]

I like this level 1-9 description: http://www.vail.com/ski-and-snowboard-school/assess-your-ability-level.aspx#/FirstTime

And if you have EpicMix installed, the Academy tab has a list of accomplishments for each level.

 

[TonyC]

I find these level 1-9 descriptions not so useful for experienced skiers. By the link above most people can advance from level 1-5 in a week. Level 8 to 9 can take decades or be never. There is a very long tail at the high end of the ability scale. There ought to be more specific descriptions for progress along that tail.

I also agree with Phil's comment about divergence of specific ski abilities. Racers and powder skiers come to mind. There are people who are close to expert at one of these and middling intermediate at best at the other.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Like Phil's description, clear and simple.

Most of the skiers I know and have skied with are Advanced skiers. I save expert for very few people. Some adv. skiers can ski powder really well and not that efficient on hard pack or moguls and no skills racing gates. And of course the opposite is true also, good racers not too good in the powder etc..

Expert. Ski's very efficiently anywhere, anytime, under any conditions.

 

[Monique]

Like Phil's description, clear and simple.

Well, it's clear, simple, and does not take technique into account. So I suppose it covers survival skills ... but there are fairly technically proficient skiers who won't touch advanced terrain, and there are people who've been skiing 5 days and take it upon themselves to "ski" a double black.

 

[Tricia]

most people can advance from level 1-5 in a week. Level 8 to 9 can take decades or be never.

From the perspective of teaching skiing, I think people plateau a lot more when they've reached a certain level on anything, not just skiing.

 

[markojp]

Well, it's clear, simple, and does not take technique into account. So I suppose it covers survival skills ... but there are fairly technically proficient skiers who won't touch advanced terrain, and there are people who've been skiing 5 days and take it upon themselves to "ski" a double black.

Fairly proficient, but not true experts IMHO. Every 'true expert' I know is pretty comfortable everywhere* in pretty much any condition. Seemingly effortless versatility is the key. (It might look effortless, but sometimes it's pretty darn hard. )



* There's no true comfort in extreme 'fall and die' terrain. That's another discussion and not within our scope here IMHO.

 

[mdf]

I think it makes sense to set the bar for "expert" somewhere short of perfection. There ought to be room for "low expert", "high expert", and "good skier".