What skills determine ability levels?

[DanoT]

I'm curious for those who say they can tell a skier's level by how they stand and walk, can you give some examples on how it works?

Keep in mind that ski instructors look at and assess skiers for a living, so even little things like how adept at and comfortable carrying skis, putting poles straps on a wrist, standing in skis with the knees slightly bent and shin pressure against the boot tongue, how tense or relaxed the student appears and other stuff can give clues to a practiced eye.

 

[Monique]

No, not a race, but yes, in some circumstances timed.

The application of ski technique is just the ability to control your speed and direction. Better skiers can control their speed and direction at higher speeds and on more difficult terrain. It is easy to set up practical tests to judge to application of technique. The timed element just shows that someone can make controlled turns at at variable speeds.

We use objective testing in many sports. Golf and martial arts come to mind as two sports where the end result is not defined subjectively. Why not skiing?

I had a big old post with lots of thoughts, including the subjectivity of martial arts judging, but I'll cut it down to this:

The goal of golf is to put a ball in a hole with the fewest strokes (I think? I don't play golf).

The goal of a sparring competition is to accrue the most points within a match. (Note - "sparring" is just the game portion of martial arts. It's not the sum total of one's martial arts practice.)

Is the goal of skiing to get from point A to point B as fast as possible? Not to me. In fact, for me, doing that misses the point of skiing.

 

[Wilhelmson]

My goals are to get better and have fun.

Since I'm not qualified to judge my progress according to form and nuances, basic empirical results help to keep me pushing for the next level and keeping up with my kids.

 

[fatbob]

We use objective testing in many sports. Golf and martial arts come to mind as two sports where the end result is not defined subjectively. Why not skiing?

Well for me I wouldn't want to be in a class with someone who thought being fast was the primary criterion.

 

[KingGrump]

Well for me I wouldn't want to be in a class with someone who thought being fast was the primary criterion.

I much like to be consistently slow for 90 days straight rather than fast for 2 days (then 5 days off).

 

[Bill Seddon]

It's so much more difficult to ski slow well, than to ski fast

 

[KevinF]

I much like to be consistently slow for 90 days straight rather than fast for 2 days (then 5 days off).

Your "slow" is still hella faster than most people's "fast".

 

[Pequenita]

Well for me I wouldn't want to be in a class with someone who thought being fast was the primary criterion.

Heck. I went on exactly one date with a guy whose primary criterion when skiing was to go fast.

 

[KingGrump]

Heck. I went on exactly one date with a guy whose primary criterion when skiing was to go fast.

Way too good of a set up. Sniffs bait, swims away.

Don't get me wrong. I do not have anything against skiing fast. so long it is done with control. Most fast skiing I see on the hill certainly are not.

 

[mdf]

Way too good of a set up. Sniffs bait, swims away.

Yeah, I thought it was going somewhere else mid-way through the sentence....

 

[KingGrump]

Oh, it's you. Thought the gutter was feeling a bit crowded.

 

[Fishbowl]

Well for me I wouldn't want to be in a class with someone who thought being fast was the primary criterion.

Am I back on Epic?

 

[KingGrump]

Wow, that is a bit harsh.

 

[DanoT]

Heck. I went on exactly one date with a guy whose primary criterion when skiing was to go fast.

Way too good of a set up. Sniffs bait, swims away.

Don't get me wrong. I do not have anything against skiing fast. so long it is done with control. Most fast skiing I see on the hill certainly are not.

Yeah, I thought it was going somewhere else mid-way through the sentence....

Am I back on Epic?

For a second there I thought we were going TGR.

 

[KingGrump]

Sorry, it's a slow Tuesday night. Correction, Wednesday Morning.
Things will be better once the sun comes up.

 

[TPJ]

I can work with a group of skiers who ski at similar speeds and have desire to ski the same type of terrain. I can give out individual instruction to the group members to make everyones lesson worthwhile. My main criteria is that no one skis terrain with me that is unsafe for them. My lessons are usually taught off piste on black and double black terrain so the safety concerns are real. I have had students drop Corbets and I have told some students that they would have to find another instructor if that was their goal because I wouldn't take them until I thought they were ready. I really try hard to listen to the students goals and then give them a day that exceeds their expectations. That's how you get returning clients and that's why as an organization my SS is ranked very highly in customer satisfaction within the industry.

 

[razie]

Canadian coaches categorize racers in several well defined levels, each with well defined objective criteria, based on specific tasks. You can lookup "snow stars" online for details.

Personally when looking at the recreational skiers, I tend to categorize them based on the ability to carve clean slalom turns on a green, blue or black run. That's often enough of an indicator. You would be surprised how very few people make it to the black...

I realize that's a reduced scope, but it's the same with cars and everywhere: a good F1 driver has different criteria than a drifter or a monster truck driver... I'm not going to blend then all into some idealized thing and make up some scale, perhaps one where I rate high...

Fast cannot be a goal unless you're on a course with some obstacles... otherwise it has no meaning, really... what, a tucking contest

For me, my purpose and goal is to understand skiing as deeply as I can and then ski as efficiently as I can.

Style is not relevant to me, I see it like more of a constraint than a tool, so I try to be objective.

 

[fatbob]

Am I back on Epic?

Nope if you were on epic someone would have devised a highly complex devision matrix on how to categorise people for ski lesssons, someone else would disagree, an instructor would wade in with a bit of "Respect mah authoridee!", someone else would have told us that being a one true disciple of the Harb was the only path to enlightenment and then be banned. Ultimately it would turn out to be Gray or some younk punk's fault.

 

[François Pugh]

Maintaining a good aerodynamic tuck at speed, around curves through compressions for the amount of time it takes to get from the top to the bottom of a fair sized hill (1500' plus vertical) outside of a specially prepared course is a lot harder than it looks. .
Don't worry; if you don't want to be in a group of skiers who only want to ski fast, the ski off will prevent that. Time-only criteria might put you in a lower skill group though, so instructor observation should be given even weighting.
IMHO the best solution is a private lesson.

 

[Pequenita]

Way too good of a set up. Sniffs bait, swims away.

I spent a while rewording things....but I really did have a first date conversation years ago with someone who kept on saying, "I just like skiing fast. That's it." In a non-ski town.

I can work with a group of skiers who ski at similar speeds and have desire to ski the same type of terrain. I can give out individual instruction to the group members to make everyones lesson worthwhile. My main criteria is that no one skis terrain with me that is unsafe for them. My lessons are usually taught off piste on black and double black terrain so the safety concerns are real. I have had students drop Corbets and I have told some students that they would have to find another instructor if that was their goal because I wouldn't take them until I thought they were ready. I really try hard to listen to the students goals and then give them a day that exceeds their expectations. That's how you get returning clients and that's why as an organization my SS is ranked very highly in customer satisfaction within the industry.

That's fair. Groups can be tough because unless the students are close enough in both skill and confidence, you can wind up with one person who has no business skiing x but who wants to (and doesn't realize where the limitation is), another person who has the skills to ski x but lacks confidence, and the person who has both the skills and confidence to do so. It takes a very skilled instructor for all three of these students to feel like they've had a good lesson.

Last year, I went into a clinic saying, "I want to ski x by the end of the season," and several of the people in my group were like, "whoa...." The reality is, one or two who responded that way were my ability level, another moved to another group by lunch, and had I not gotten slammed into by another skier in March, I totally would have been skiing x in April this year.