It may be the bourbon talking but this reminds me of a late night infomercial "Learn how to ski in 30 minutes or less".
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Something new from Ski Magazine - Paid Instruction
- Thread starter Tricia
- Start date
Wow- currently I'm the single worth it vote. We're talking 2-3 tanks of gas or a solid dinner here people.
He're my rationale: Rogan is a stud & I assume you can rewatch the content over the course of the season. Had the privilege of coaching with him years ago.
Sure you can do strength or mobility work with any trainer at the gym, yet when a client works w myself- they get a vet whose been at the game for almost 25 years & can put it into scaled content. Just because another pro takes a seminar with myself, doesn't mean they can bring identical skill.
$149 for Rogan, pls you'll spend that in beer your first weekend on the white ribbon of death.
He're my rationale: Rogan is a stud & I assume you can rewatch the content over the course of the season. Had the privilege of coaching with him years ago.
Sure you can do strength or mobility work with any trainer at the gym, yet when a client works w myself- they get a vet whose been at the game for almost 25 years & can put it into scaled content. Just because another pro takes a seminar with myself, doesn't mean they can bring identical skill.
$149 for Rogan, pls you'll spend that in beer your first weekend on the white ribbon of death.
A good point. I think the value of buying this and watching it/using it to learn skiing would depend on your expectations. How many of us have taken lessons from an instructor that was using what he learned from Rogan in a clinic but was translating it poorly? I could see getting this and using it mainly for stoke or using to amplify or compare to what my in-person coaches are seeing in my skiing. But to use the video format at a sole platform for learning: no.
I have seen the following exchange during many ski lessons*.
Student: I am doing it. I am doing it.
Ski instructor: Nope.
Lessons that required self evaluations only work when we can find a way to replace the fun house mirror we all stared into.
* PC language removed and distilled down to it's bare essence for clarity.
King, can I borrow your 'funhouse mirror' quote ? That's awesome!
IMHO, monetizing instructional video to the degree of $149 is a very tough sell in the youtube era. $35, sure. $50 - $60, maybe. North of that, probably not. The cylinder that isn't going to fire is how useful this video series would be to younger instructors (who just don't have the spare coin) prepping for exams.
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Thread Starter
TS
While Rogan is certainly worth it, I can see the point of those who say, "in conjunction with other instruction"
I have a hard time seeing most folks, me included, who have a difficult time learning strictly from reading or watching video, getting much out of it without adding other elements of instruction, (clinic, group, or other)
It his, however a great element and good tool to add to the chest.
Looks like Bbinder said it better than I did.
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The problem isn't with the messenger, it's with the medium.
I think Pugski is good 'nuff. Bob Barnes infinity move thread is very comprehensive https://forum.pugski.com/threads/the-infinity-move.277/. Just donate every once in a while. I donated $20 a few months ago and will again in next couple weeks. I'm contemplating supplementing by buying Project Kitz. Also trying to read Lemaster's Ultimate Skiing. Cheers
There is no questioning Rogan as the instructor but it comes down to how the student learns and what (s)he can get out of the video. It is not what something costs, it comes down to, what is it's worth. Can you learn to ski or progress your skiing through an instructional video?
Thread Starter
TS
Another question to add to this conversation:
How many of us have a friend, or bumped into someone on the slopes or ...., who says, "I'm self taught. I read the tech tips in magazines and I'm an expert skier"?
Then we see the person ski and think, "I can tell.
"
There is more to it than reading an article or watching a video. The feedback you get from an instructor is priceless.
How many of us have a friend, or bumped into someone on the slopes or ...., who says, "I'm self taught. I read the tech tips in magazines and I'm an expert skier"?
Then we see the person ski and think, "I can tell.
"There is more to it than reading an article or watching a video. The feedback you get from an instructor is priceless.
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- Apr 24, 2017
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There are just so many better alternatives to paying $149. I'll echo what most have said, in-person instruction is the best use of limited funds. The only video series I have ever considered buying, was https://stompittutorials.com/. Their focus is on park tricks and run about $40. I never bought the series, but I do enjoy their videos. As for more "technical" instruction, I think once you're past the beginner stage (i.e. the intermediates whom this subscription is aimed at) you are working on refinements. I know that I benefit from an outside pair of eyes noticing the small things I can change to improve.
The skiers that I know who are self taught or book or Youtube taught do it because they are too cheap to pay for a lesson with a live ski instructor. These people are not going to pay $149USD for a ski instruction video.
Really!
You could spend a lifetime viewing free ski instruction videos on YouTube, and never get to them all.
And I am just talking about the good ones: PSIA, Bob Barnes (on Vimeo), JF Beaulieu, etc, etc...
You could spend a lifetime viewing free ski instruction videos on YouTube, and never get to them all.
And I am just talking about the good ones: PSIA, Bob Barnes (on Vimeo), JF Beaulieu, etc, etc...
Rogan certainly understands skiing. He comes off as likable and articulate. Regardless, where is the value when there are many similar videos online now for free? For goodness sakes, there are complete training videos produced from a variety of different organizations and individuals that cost far less.
You can but--and it is a big but--you can't see yourself ski. I looked like dreck in a video my son took of me skiing last season. I looked like a skier in his 60's, which I am, and immediately made changes. I recently had a golf lesson (I don't take many) and realized that one simple suggestion from the pro fixed the trajectory issues bothering me for a couple of years. Regardless of knowing what to do, it is worthless unless someone can see you. The difference between golf and skiing instruction is that a sloppy skier can have fun all day long, but a golfer is judged by his/her score.
Setting aside the comparisons between video and in person instruction and in light of the higher cost, what we are then left to ask is what is being brought to the table that other videos do not? Does Rogan present anything new or anything old in a new effective way? What differentiates the curriculum in this program that lends to the higher price? If you are a knowledgeable self learning advanced intermediate/expert or a seasoned pro, will there be anything in this series that we have not heard already? Or, are there just a bunch of new analogies that don’t even analogize differently than the old ones?
I suppose someone would have to buy and view it to find out. The only thing I can see that is new from the outside is what Ski Magazine is doing and not anything regarding the teaching itself. If I were to guess, I would bet that the biggest customer for this type of material is the customer that collects all this stuff and may be, as a result, somewhat discombobulated in their flow of development. Of all the video’s customers, how many will go how far beyond the first step of purchase and through all the many other steps it takes to reach the stabilization step of learning from said material? While good organic development thrives on a certain diversity of resources, the more these resources are founded in different principals of technique and development, the less likely this versatility will be of ongoing, long term assistance to learning.
An example of something “new to the table” I would consider is a possible connection between Rogan’s PSIA based teaching system and the one we get at just about every ski school in the country. Wouldn’t this be the connective enhancement almost everyone is lamenting on? Unfortunately for such a prospect, I do not think PSIA instructors are teaching close enough the same thing from area to area and instructor to instructor for this dynamic to be able to materialize. While a certain teaching system has this direct relevancy between all of its media in person coaching, a very limited few would have access to its in person instruction. In terms of anything new, though, I believe the concepts core to that teaching system are actually too rigidly connected, an aspect that constrained its evolution and, as a result, is somewhat out of date.
What I believe the PSIA could do to enhance both ends of it’s video and in-person products is to connect them with online learning accounts and blending a mix of learning resources that all fall under the same philosophy of teaching and learning. This may also result in the PSIA's ability to get there instructors more so on the same page with teaching as it would for students and learning. What better way to sell more in-person lessons AND media resources by keeping the customer “online” with distance learning objectives such as real time communication, video MA, and the implementation of ongoing organizational attributes such as spiral learning that will actually connect all the dots of learning rather than swimming in a over convoluted blend of mismatching principles, concepts and philosophies.
I suppose someone would have to buy and view it to find out. The only thing I can see that is new from the outside is what Ski Magazine is doing and not anything regarding the teaching itself. If I were to guess, I would bet that the biggest customer for this type of material is the customer that collects all this stuff and may be, as a result, somewhat discombobulated in their flow of development. Of all the video’s customers, how many will go how far beyond the first step of purchase and through all the many other steps it takes to reach the stabilization step of learning from said material? While good organic development thrives on a certain diversity of resources, the more these resources are founded in different principals of technique and development, the less likely this versatility will be of ongoing, long term assistance to learning.
An example of something “new to the table” I would consider is a possible connection between Rogan’s PSIA based teaching system and the one we get at just about every ski school in the country. Wouldn’t this be the connective enhancement almost everyone is lamenting on? Unfortunately for such a prospect, I do not think PSIA instructors are teaching close enough the same thing from area to area and instructor to instructor for this dynamic to be able to materialize. While a certain teaching system has this direct relevancy between all of its media in person coaching, a very limited few would have access to its in person instruction. In terms of anything new, though, I believe the concepts core to that teaching system are actually too rigidly connected, an aspect that constrained its evolution and, as a result, is somewhat out of date.
What I believe the PSIA could do to enhance both ends of it’s video and in-person products is to connect them with online learning accounts and blending a mix of learning resources that all fall under the same philosophy of teaching and learning. This may also result in the PSIA's ability to get there instructors more so on the same page with teaching as it would for students and learning. What better way to sell more in-person lessons AND media resources by keeping the customer “online” with distance learning objectives such as real time communication, video MA, and the implementation of ongoing organizational attributes such as spiral learning that will actually connect all the dots of learning rather than swimming in a over convoluted blend of mismatching principles, concepts and philosophies.
I have seen the following exchange during many ski lessons*.
Student: I am doing it. I am doing it.
Ski instructor: Nope.
Lessons that required self evaluations only work when we can find a way to replace the fun house mirror we all stared into.
* PC language removed and distilled down to it's bare essence for clarity.
The "mirror" analogy is extremely apt. I can't count the times that I thought I was doing something correctly until I watched a video of myself. Sometimes it "feels" like we are doing something correctly but we aren't. This is true of all physical activity. It's why dancers use mirrors (and not the funhouse kind!).
Love Josh Foster's videos, makes me want to visit Big White just to take a lesson from him. I might be willing fork over $149 (CA) for Josh Foster's videos. His stuff is great, very grasp-able concepts and directions, to the point without overthinking.
Even with Brian's coaching a client in a gym, how often does the client do something different from what Brian told him? Sometimes something that could be harmful? I'm sure it happens. And, Brian's there to help them do it right. Very few of us actually do what we think we're doing. Even if we're making the correct movements, we probably aren't doing them to the extent we think we are. Video of oneself is a fair substitute for a good coach. The good coach who knows how to tell both what and how to do something, and then can spot what's going right and what's going wrong, and how to correct it, is essential for many of us. I'd rather use the $149 to pay off part of my bar bill.
I just looked at Rogan giving mogul tips on youtube. Only 90 seconds, but too many tips of what to do and almost nothing of how to do them. 90 seconds of how to do one critical movement would have been more useful. Not as useful, however, as a good coach saying, "you're doing this, and we need to do that instead...and, here's how...."
I just looked at Rogan giving mogul tips on youtube. Only 90 seconds, but too many tips of what to do and almost nothing of how to do them. 90 seconds of how to do one critical movement would have been more useful. Not as useful, however, as a good coach saying, "you're doing this, and we need to do that instead...and, here's how...."
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I think one might be better off paying for a video lesson of yourself skiing..with an instructor to then point out some constructive tips. (video the instructor's comments would be great) I've actually returned "book learned" students to the lodge and gave them their $ back. Worse lesson ever since they "knew" everything, there was no trying new ideas. The lesson was a nightmare every task they countered with "the book said this" after 25min of them arguing about drills I ended the lesson.sadly they didn't know how to ski, fortunately It was XC skiing so at least less likely they'd take someone out.. (I hope)
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