Something new from Ski Magazine - Paid Instruction

[markojp]

You think punters who don't relish the prospect of doing wedge turns for hours until they are absolutely perfect are an exception?

Or maybe you mean instructors who relish doing drills ad infititum are the exception? The latter I can belive but among my friends who have gone down the route it does seem to become a bit of a (necessary) obsession for higher grade exams.

FWIW I agree on the base mileage point, I have a fundamental disagreement that the only way to get that mileage is with a trained expert, but it isn't a bad starting point for an unknown skier with perhaps dubious quality ski companions.

I absolutely agree on the FUN part - sliding down mountains is fundamentally about fun and it is a small proportion of the student population who will automatically go for the "I really want todo this properly and don't mind if that means deferring my pleasure".

Point by point, I think very very few people relish the prospect of doing wedge turns for hours. That's why they're not taught for hours and hours. With good instruction on the right terrain, most learners will begin to match into parallel between turns pretty quickly. With the right terrain, direct to parallel is possible. Concerning the 'why' of having wedge turns as an exam task, it shows a particular blend of timing and skills that indicates (relative) mastery of certain movement patterns and application of D.I.R.T. I can do some mean ones, but certainly didn't spend hours and hours doing them.

Instructors doing drills ad infinium is also not particularly useful beyond a certain point. Many aspiring L2 skiers (L3 as well) indeed tend to lose the forest fore the trees by making mastery of the drill the goal. Sometimes there's little a trainer can do to prevent this other than to harp on the notion that examiners aren't looking for mastery of a drill, they're looking for good skiing. Good is measurable and starts with looking at snow/ski interaction. I'm sorry your friends are out in the 'if I do this, I'll pass the exam' weeds. This isn't 'PSIA-learned', it's just overthinking and obsessing. In my own experience, most of the instructors I know and work with love to free ski, and ski the entire mountain. Some ski it better than others, but all are fun to ski with.

Mileage with strong skiers is great. When one of those strong skiers can actually provide a good (and wanted) MA and ideas for helping with (wanted) change, it's even better. If a skier is happy with their skiing, I'm happy too. Doesn't bother me a bit how others ski unless they're paying me to make changes and their current skill sets aren't endangering other people on the hill.

Good coaching/instruction/clinics are fun. So is free skiing. Nothing in skiing is mutually exclusive.

Hope that helps explain my thoughts better.

 

[fatbob]

Hope that helps explain my thoughts better.

Pretty close to mine. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Lauren]

I should add They brought the Books with them and were referring to them!! even though I am "no pole skier" it was impossible to teach someone that wanted to refer to the book every second.

I have a good friend that is a snowboard instructor, he had a private lesson with a kid that was kinda a book worm...the kid went to the library and borrowed a book about snowboarding prior to his first lesson, and read chapter one. My friend ended up using that book as a tool, asking him questions about the book to get him engaged in learning. They went chapter by chapter over a few weeks of lessons. The kid ended up doing really well, went up his first chairlift, and ended up really enjoying himself.

I'm not saying that this is how everyone that reads a book about skiing acts, but I thought it was a good story about branching out of normal teaching habits to accommodate a different type of learner.

 

[T-Square]

I have a good friend that is a snowboard instructor, he had a private lesson with a kid that was kinda a book worm...the kid went to the library and borrowed a book about snowboarding prior to his first lesson, and read chapter one. My friend ended up using that book as a tool, asking him questions about the book to get him engaged in learning. They went chapter by chapter over a few weeks of lessons. The kid ended up doing really well, went up his first chairlift, and ended up really enjoying himself.

I'm not saying that this is how everyone that reads a book about skiing acts, but I thought it was a good story about branching out of normal teaching habits to accommodate a different type of learner.

YES!!! I love it when an instructor takes what could be a problem and turns it into a tool. That instructor probably made a lifetime rider out of the kid. Kudos.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Pretty good conversation for early September on a ski site.

There are a lot of reasons a person becomes a ski instructor. Mine was a little different, what was yours?

In 2001-02 my wife and I decided to move to Idaho. We both ran our own businesses out of home and were free to leave California. My criteria for a new home was Skiing, fishing and golf and we needed to be relatively close to an airport. Decided on St. Maries Idaho. Neither of us knew a single person in Idaho. I thought that a good way to meet some skiers was to become a ski instructor at Silver Mt. which was the closest ski resort to St. Maries. About 2 yrs before leaving Calif. I took a ski instructor clinic from NASTC in Tahoe and was certified and hired at Homewood where I taught my lst year. We moved to Idaho and I met a lot of skiers because of my being a ski instructor. I worked at Silver Mt. for 5 yrs and enjoyed it very much. Then one morning while standing in roll call lineup it dawned on me: I was 67yrs old there was fresh snow in the trees and took my coat off, handed it to the boss and hit the trees. Something I am still doing. Enjoyed my years as an instructor, have always enjoyed teaching.

As an instructor I developed a specialty in teaching pupils that were afraid of skiing, knew they were over there head, and were scared to venture out let alone ski that expert hill. I used skill I had learned as a hostage and crisis mgt. expert to allay fears and build confidence. I have told myself to someday write this up and put here and some day I will.


WHY DID YOU BECOME A SKI INSTRUCTOR ?

 

[ADKmel]

I have a good friend that is a snowboard instructor, he had a private lesson with a kid that was kinda a book worm...the kid went to the library and borrowed a book about snowboarding prior to his first lesson, and read chapter one. My friend ended up using that book as a tool, asking him questions about the book to get him engaged in learning. They went chapter by chapter over a few weeks of lessons. The kid ended up doing really well, went up his first chairlift, and ended up really enjoying himself.

I'm not saying that this is how everyone that reads a book about skiing acts, but I thought it was a good story about branching out of normal teaching habits to accommodate a different type of learner.

Did he have the books out and open during the lesson? kind of hard to teach a student how to ski when they are Flipping thru the pages looking for quotes from the book! Of course I complimented them on wanting to learn to ski via books. People learn all different ways. My customers were adults, very argumentative and had the books with them and out flipping thru the pages to see if the book corresponded to my lesson plan. Not the same as encouraging some one to read about skiing...

 

[markojp]

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WHY DID YOU BECOME A SKI INSTRUCTOR ?

New thread.

 

[markojp]

Did he have the books out and open during the lesson? kind of hard to teach a student how to ski when they are Flipping thru the pages looking for quotes from the book! Of course I complimented them on wanting to learn to ski via books. People learn all different ways. My customers were adults, very argumentative and had the books with them and out flipping thru the pages to see if the book corresponded to my lesson plan. Not the same as encouraging some one to read about skiing...

Very doubtful.

 

[L&AirC]

I feel compelled to explain a couple things about my statement of making wedge turns for 3 hours since it has been brought up a few times.

I'll start with everyone has their issues/demons/strengths/weaknesses and I have mine. I have ADD and OCD tendencies. Since these things help me in my career, I think of them as super powers because others can't do what I do and nor do they want to. Even my boss said "I would hate to have your (censored) job." I on the other hand, love it. I get to spend my day in spreadsheets getting everything perfectly aligned and have no issues figuring out why on a $100M+ proposal I'm $1.13 off (the government likes that I do that as well).

The tendencies part of the OCD means I can control it without medication but I sure do like everything just right. I usually just have to take a deep breath and move on. As far as the ADD, If you aren't aware, the real name for ADD should be Attention Inconsistency Disorder instead of Attention Deficit. The inconsistency part means that some times we struggle to focus and sometimes we hyper focus. For me, when I'm doing something I love, I hyper focus and can spend hours doing it.

The OCD tendencies means that I have no issues with redoing things until it is the way I want it. Almost everything I've built around the house has been done at least three times. Now when I build things, part of the design is ease of rework (i.e. screws instead of nails). But because it is "tendencies" and not full fledged OCD, I can say "good enough" or "it isn't going to get better" etc.

So I bring all this up to say that while how I trained would seem ridiculous to many and just this side of torture to others, and still others would find the opposite of helpful/useful training, I enjoyed it and found it gratifying. I never thought that 3 hours of wedge turns should be part of a training program. It's just what I needed to do to get things to sit right in my head. Again, my real point in that thread was about getting mileage. Somehow, everything I gravitated to in life has been places that relished the "rote" system and perfection - a career in the Marines and several years in Okinawa studying martial arts. One of the first things I learned in Japanese was "mo ii kai" - One more time.

In a 3 hour period, most people would do several different tasks in one training session, and plan on doing the tasks across several days. I'm fine doing one task in each session. Just how my brain works as long as I'm into it. At the end of the week, everyone has the same number of runs on each task. Mine were just grouped closer together.

Fortunately for the athletes I coach, I know how I like to approach things isn't how the majority would like to do things and I don't do it that way with them.

So, now you know a little secret about me. I revel in the fact I have ADD and a "touch" of OCD and if I'm being perfectly honest, my ADD isn't that bad either. I didn't even know I had it until I was in my 50s and my wife "forced" me to be seen about it. Why she's put up with me for so long I'll never understand. Now that we understand it, she knows understands I need to be reminded to come up (from work) sometimes and I don't argue when she says it.

Ken

 

[RuleMiHa]

I feel compelled to explain a couple things about my statement of making wedge turns for 3 hours since it has been brought up a few times.

I'll start with everyone has their issues/demons/strengths/weaknesses and I have mine. I have ADD and OCD tendencies. Since these things help me in my career, I think of them as super powers because others can't do what I do and nor do they want to. Even my boss said "I would hate to have your (censored) job." I on the other hand, love it. I get to spend my day in spreadsheets getting everything perfectly aligned and have no issues figuring out why on a $100M+ proposal I'm $1.13 off (the government likes that I do that as well).

The tendencies part of the OCD means I can control it without medication but I sure do like everything just right. I usually just have to take a deep breath and move on. As far as the ADD, If you aren't aware, the real name for ADD should be Attention Inconsistency Disorder instead of Attention Deficit. The inconsistency part means that some times we struggle to focus and sometimes we hyper focus. For me, when I'm doing something I love, I hyper focus and can spend hours doing it.

The OCD tendencies means that I have no issues with redoing things until it is the way I want it. Almost everything I've built around the house has been done at least three times. Now when I build things, part of the design is ease of rework (i.e. screws instead of nails). But because it is "tendencies" and not full fledged OCD, I can say "good enough" or "it isn't going to get better" etc.

So I bring all this up to say that while how I trained would seem ridiculous to many and just this side of torture to others, and still others would find the opposite of helpful/useful training, I enjoyed it and found it gratifying. I never thought that 3 hours of wedge turns should be part of a training program. It's just what I needed to do to get things to sit right in my head. Again, my real point in that thread was about getting mileage. Somehow, everything I gravitated to in life has been places that relished the "rote" system and perfection - a career in the Marines and several years in Okinawa studying martial arts. One of the first things I learned in Japanese was "mo ii kai" - One more time.

In a 3 hour period, most people would do several different tasks in one training session, and plan on doing the tasks across several days. I'm fine doing one task in each session. Just how my brain works as long as I'm into it. At the end of the week, everyone has the same number of runs on each task. Mine were just grouped closer together.

Fortunately for the athletes I coach, I know how I like to approach things isn't how the majority would like to do things and I don't do it that way with them.

So, now you know a little secret about me. I revel in the fact I have ADD and a "touch" of OCD and if I'm being perfectly honest, my ADD isn't that bad either. I didn't even know I had it until I was in my 50s and my wife "forced" me to be seen about it. Why she's put up with me for so long I'll never understand. Now that we understand it, she knows understands I need to be reminded to come up (from work) sometimes and I don't argue when she says it.

Ken

Me too!

The nice thing about knowing yourself if being able to cherry pick how to learn/do etc for maximum efficiency & minimal frustration. I'd never ask someone else to do what I do (unless they exhibit similar characteristics & struggles) but I do much better doing one thing at a time until it sticks and have been known to gently request NO NEW SKILLS! to excellent invested ski instructors when I knew introducing something new would only result in disaster (inability to perform old or new skill). Three hours at one time of a skill will always achieve better results (for me) than that same amount of time broken up over multiple days, so it's definitely a no brainer for me. I've successfully learned too many difficult things this way to ignore the benefits.

 

[markojp]

FWIW, how I train myself doesn't necessarily work for others.

 

[Chris Walker]

Another thing I saw Ski Magazine was offering was an 8-week video conditioning program, taught by US Ski Team experts. They even had a promo code to get 20% off. I thought now conditioning exercises are something that come through really well on video, and 8 weeks is just about the right amount of time until ski season around here. Even though I've been sticking to my own little program for the last month or so, maybe some US Ski Team expertise could really help me out. So I logged in to check it out. The regular price was $189!. So you can get the skiing course for less than it costs just to get in shape for skiing. Well, it's out of my league. I've always known their target demographic was a bit upscale from me, but that seems pretty steep for workout videos, many of which are also on You Tube for free.

 

[RuleMiHa]

FWIW, how I train myself doesn't necessarily work for others.

I really think this is what makes the difference between good teachers and great teachers. Someone can know all the styles/rhetoric/literature but understanding how you learn and how that differs from the norm is the gateway to seeing the differences in others.

Last year I decided to restart playing the Viola after a 26 year hiatus. At one point I spent 1 hour per day staring in the mirror, bowing (moving only my right arm back and forth) a single string, everyday for a week (you think 3 hours of wedge turns are boring, hah!). I'd never even suggest that to another person learning an instrument, but I knew what it would take for me to rebuild dormant movement patterns and I knew if I got it wrong it'd impede my progress, so........

I really think if you know yourself it primes you to see the subtleties in the lesson pathway and opens you up to being more creative in picking things that might benefit a particular student and allows you greater insight into when standard dogma is appropriate or not.

 

[Don in Morrison]

Who taught the First Instructor how to ski? How do we know this First Instructor was qualified to teach? What authority provided certification for this person? How do we know this certification is legit? I'm gonna stop now. Too close to the Rabbit Hole.

 

[markojp]

Last year I decided to restart playing the Viola after a 26 year hiatus. At one point I spent 1 hour per day staring in the mirror, bowing (moving only my right arm back and forth) a single string, everyday for a week....

Legalized marijuana... just a thought.

 

[RuleMiHa]

Legalized marijuana... just a thought.

Are you suggesting my sphincter tone is somewhat elevated?

 

[Monique]

Who taught the First Instructor how to ski? How do we know this First Instructor was qualified to teach? What authority provided certification for this person? How do we know this certification is legit? I'm gonna stop now. Too close to the Rabbit Hole.

I like learning from the aggregation of other people's experiences.

Other people like to teach themselves, and find the exploration rewarding.

 

[KingGrump]

And some just like to wander around in the same cul-de-sac.

 

[fatbob]

Hey if the cul de sac is fun!

 

[KingGrump]

Definitely nothing wrong with cul-de-sac. Some folks just ain't born for the open road.
I'm happy if you're happy.