Things that promote accessibility for getting into ski racing

[wolcoma]

Moderator edit: These posts were pulled from the Mikaela Shiffrin thread.

As the obvious leader of the USST (like it or not as the best ever Mikaela is the leader), I would like her to reach out to more "club kids" and not just the ski academy kids to promote the sport and make it more accessible. I know Mikaela is a Burke alum, but it's a school probably less than 5% of skiing families can afford and focus on accessibility. In reality, I think Mikaela would have become a top World Cup star whether she skied for Burke, Whaleback, or Pat's Peak. Ski racing in the United States right now is not in a good place and we need to focus on growth and less on the big bucks.

 

[Uncle-A]

I was just wondering how many more ski racers would we have if we didn't have so many snowboarders?

 

[skiJ]

Her post this morning about winning the Espys is extremely well thought out and classy

Mikaela Shiffrin is in Los Angeles, CA.​

18h ·


TBH…I seriously did not think I would win the ESPY last night. And, I kind of blacked out a bit on stage. But, I hope I at least got the message across about records, inspiration, how grateful I am for my entire support system, and setting the tone for the next generation to be great humans both on and off the mountain (or whatever their playing field is) and to maybe—hopefully—even reset my record one day.
I had a lot more that I would have liked to say… but it seemed best to keep it simple, hopefully not too long, and a bit more focused than my typical scatter-brained tangents

. Especially when in shock

…but here are some of the thoughts I left out:
The other day I was asked “what is greatness?”
I started thinking about actions, and people, and achievements…but then I realized that maybe greatness is not any of those things. Maybe it’s simply a feeling. It’s the shivers you get, up and down your spine, when you experience, or witness something that makes you feel grateful and SO lucky to be alive. Greatness is a moment, it happens to us, around us, and because of us, all of the time.
The amount of greatness in the room last night…that was astounding to me. I felt so lucky to be there amongst so many spectacular athletes and people. Honestly the nomination alone was the win for me.
Over the past few years, something I’ve learned is that the one thing that we can all relate to above everything else, is that greatness can not exist without struggle and failure. Not for me, not for anyone in the room last night, or anyone who might have been watching on TV…
As Janet Fitch said, “The Phoenix must burn to emerge.”
People will root for you on your rise, all the way to the top, then they’ll get bored of you being on top. They’ll cheer for someone else, anyone else. They’ll actually cheer for you to fall. And they will tear you down further when you do fail.
You will fail, it’s unavoidable…and it will hurt. It’s supposed to hurt. My greatest failures have been the most defining moments in my career. The pain from them is etched into my memory, and that has guided me to work harder and smarter and keep improving.
The people around me, my whole world of support, have picked me up, dusted me off, and reminded me again and again that the most important thing above all else is simply having the courage to try, despite the chance that I might fail.
So to those people, I just want to say thank you.
To my team, my teammates, my friends. Taylor, Kristi, Aleks…especially my Mom—I absolutely would not be where I am without you…you are my greatest inspiration. Dad, we love you and we miss you so much. Lastly, thank you to ESPN and the #ESPYs for this recognition again, and congratulations to all of the nominees and winners from last evening.
Thank you all for the outpouring of love and support. Really. I got the chance to talk about body shaping underwear up on that stage last night because you all voted and you support me through thick and thin—thank you.

Sophie Goldschmidt is the leader of the US Ski and Snowboard Association -

Mikaela Shiffrin is the best ski racer in the world ;
in my opinion, MS is the best ski racer, (of) all-time.

I have seen MS's acceptance of her award from espn and I have included Tricia's post, including MS's follow-up comments -
I cannot imagine that Skiing could have a better ambassador than MS.

Mikaela Shiffrin is An athlete, the best in the world at what she does -
MS can be inspirational to anyone who finds it in the example she sets, And in her consistent message of humility and hard work - complete Dedication.
to me, Mikaela Shiffrin's message and her example are for everyone !
... she recently participated in a Public celebration of her career success; to me, that sets an example of accessibility.

I have thought a lot over the last couple weeks about "diversity" and 'accessible' -ity in Skiing -
what I see, begins with a matter of geography - that kids from Vermont and New Hampshire and Burnsville and White Pass and Kalispell (/Whitefish ) (( and Massachusetts )) can become world champions begins with geographic accessibility.

I admire Mikaela Shiffrin's example and her message -
MS saw "greatness" - first, in effort, that had led to the great accomplishments of many great athletes, and she offered her accomplishments as goals to be passed by future generations...
to me, That's a great message.

Respectfully. skiJ

 

[fatbob]

I was just wondering how many more ski racers would we have if we didn't have so many snowboarders?

Probably around zero. Because kids who aspire to snowboarding aren't about the rigid framework of race programmes. Reality slighty higher because there might be some kids who had no other athletic channel and took to skiiing instead. A better question would be how many ski racers if basketball, football and soccer didn't exist because they are the sports pulling the volume of athletes.

 

[Uncle-A]

Probably around zero. Because kids who aspire to snowboarding aren't about the rigid framework of race programmes. Reality slighty higher because there might be some kids who had no other athletic channel and took to skiiing instead. A better question would be how many ski racers if basketball, football and soccer didn't exist because they are the sports pulling the volume of athletes.

Those other sports are only pulling athletes away from skiing in ski country not in the rest of the locations. Snowboarding is pulling away would be skiers from anywhere.

 

[wolcoma]

Don't get me wrong as I am a big fan of Mikaela Shiffrin and very happy she won the ESPY which is great for the sport of Alpine Ski Racing in the USA! However, Mikaela's journey to best in the world is nearly impossible for most kids to duplicate. For example, in the State of Vermont we are an ideal geographical location with approximately 90,000 kids between the ages of 10 and 18. The majority of ski resorts like Killington, Stowe, Sugarbush, Burke, Stratton, Okemo, etc. only offer ski racing for academy kids and most VT kids are completely shut out of the sport. Actually the majority of these academy kids are not even from VT, but instead are from Boston, NYC, Conn, NJ, etc. If you add up all the ski racers from U10's to U19's in Vermont the total is probably less than a thousand kids. Maybe a few more but not many. Very thankful we have a few bright spots like Cochran's for these kids. This is one of the primary reasons why the USST has very little depth. Again we did not have a single male racer in 22/23 season step on a World Cup tech podium! Thank goodness for Paula Moltzan who has brought some much needed depth to the USST women.

 

[S.H.]

Thank goodness for Paula Moltzan who has brought some much needed depth to the USST women.

Breezy Johnson doesn't count?

 

[wolcoma]

Granted Breezy Johnson was coming back from an injury last season with her best result being 5th at St. Moritz DH. Regardless the USST has little depth outside of Mikaela. Meanwhile the United States has some of the best ski resorts in the world and over 10MM skiers and snowboarders, which is double the population of Norway. Despite the East having a relatively warm and snowless season in 2022/23, most of our large resorts remained open from Thanksgiving until Easter. Meanwhile many European ski resorts were forced to close for parts of last season. Hey maybe more of the Euros should chase Mikaela back to Killington and Vail so she can show them what good snow and great skiing looks like.

 

[skiJ]

(( while I don't want to contribute to further thread drift, there is a sentence and a concept in the previous post (2458) and an earlier post that I believe bear reconsideration > it was claimed that ski racing in the US is not in a good place...

I would offer several observations -
The US Ski Team has enjoyed great individual Success over the past twenty-five years. From the careers of Bode and Daron, to Lindsey and now, Mikaela ; ( and that is just alpine ski racing, which is the apparent focus ( the Nordic and Freestyle teams have also had successes ) )
The World Cup is an unusual parameter to measure success -
I believe anyone who pays a membership fee can join USSA - and at least in the upper midwest, club racing is thriving, with races rotating between host clubs ;
high school club racing is also widely available in communities with geographic accessibility.
The opportunity for growth exists.

The World Cup is a predominantly European-based Competition ; the cost to field a team of athletes to travel to and compete in competition ( not just alpine ski racing ) costs all of 'big bucks' - and the ability to attract sponsors like Stifel and Toyota is closely associated with the success of one or more athlete(s).

I see plenty of evidence that snow sports has experienced mercurial growth in the last four years in the US - but I still do not see it ever again being the almost mainstream activity it was in my youth. And that's okay, there are a lot of other things to do.

Every club racer can access Mikaela Shiffrin through her social media accounts ( see Tricia's post above ).
while youth ski racing in New England may be dominated by ( the economic elite ),
I believe MS is a great champion For ski racing ,,, And both provides accessibility and promotes accessibility through her message !


Thank you. skiJ ))

This subject needs a different thread.

 

[James]

The majority of ski resorts like Killington, Stowe, Sugarbush, Burke, Stratton, Okemo, etc. only offer ski racing for academy kids

Huh?
You could say even non academy racing is too expensive, but your statement isn’t true.

 

[fatbob]

Those other sports are only pulling athletes away from skiing in ski country not in the rest of the locations. Snowboarding is pulling away would be skiers from anywhere.

Really not sure I understand this argument. Are you saying a lowland kid would be choosing to ski race if it weren't for pesky snowboarding? Hard to believe. There are other far more accessible sports than wintersports for a lowland kid and given the logistical and financial access issues a kid has to be motivated to even try wintersports.

 

[wolcoma]

I think you are missing my point, at least in the East we have hundreds of thousands of kids who live within an hour of ski areas with at least 600 to 3,000 vertical feet from Upstate NY, Vermont, Mass, NH, and Maine alone. In order to develop the next Mikaela Shiffrin or Bode Miller, we need to provide these kids with the opportunity to free ski, train, and race without spending $70K per year to meet that objective. Right now in the East, if you don't attend one of these super expensive ski academies we can't even get the local NCAA programs to look at the club kids. The Eastern Cup FIS schedule alone is primarily run during weekdays when club kids are in school. Two things we can do to dramatically reduce the cost of alpine ski racing in the East is first focus on night training under the lights and secondly utilize part-time coaches. I have no doubt Mikaela would still be a World Cup star if she had come from a more affordable club program that trains after school under the lights with part-time coaches. Do you think LeBron James or Derek Jeter had full-time coaches growing up? Even Tiger Woods high school golf coach Don Crosby was part-time as his primary job was a school teacher. Tiger wasn't even a full-time golfer as he was also an avid cross-country runner in high school.

 

[Philpug]

While we are the lunatic fringe here on the site, we have to remember, for the most part, skiing here in the US is viewed as jsut an activity or maybe a lifestyle. In Europe, it is a way of life and very well in many countries, the primary sport. When we see more corn hole on ESPN than skiing, it shows where skiing ranks compared to other sports and how accessable it is.

As far as Mikaela being afforded different opportunities, well, I am sure her brother had the same ones. Mikaela had the natural talent and is using it to the max. I am not taking aything away from her brother but she is indeed a generational athlete.

 

[James]

Do you think LeBron James or Derek Jeter had full-time coaches growing up?

Pretty much, yes. Even if it’s friends/family. But LeBron was stuck in poverty and a difficult home situation till someone got him to play football at 10 yrs old. Who knows what would’ve happened without. Very different to Jeter and Tiger.. He played football in HS, and is a bit of a freak like Mikaela in getting national attention in HS for being so good in basketball.

Taking 2 of the best ever in their sport and a Hall of Famer is probably not the most productive way to make your argument.

The traveling club full year disease has infected everything from baseball to soccer to ice hockey.

Lynn Williams and Naomi Girma are exceptions to that on the USWNT. Williams considers herself incredibly lucky to have made it without being in the usual track.

NBA: LeBron Trilogy, part 1

In ESPN The Magazine's NBA Preview Issue, Eli Saslow tells the story of LeBron James the fourth grader, before basketball came into his life.

www.espn.com

 

[BLiP]

I don't think ease of access and affordability are the only issues here. Look at soccer as an example. For decades, millions of American kids have been playing soccer and yet, until very recently, America has failed to produce more than a couple of (mens) players capable of stating on a European club team. Only recently, coinciding with the development of elite clubs/academies connected with a few of the MLS teams, have Americans broken into the European clubs with any regularity. And frankly, most of those players moved from America to Europe to train at a fairly young age.

 

[Philpug]

Many will say that Golf is an elitist sport and few will argue that it is extremely difficult to get to the top level. A good argument against it is Tony Finau and his very humble beginnings being in a lower level income family, his father lining the garage with old mattresses so Tony could practice as a kid. Can it be done? Absolutely, but it takes drive and a team around you.

 

[sparty]

I don't think ease of access and affordability are the only issues here. Look at soccer as an example. For decades, millions of American kids have been playing soccer and yet, until very recently, America has failed to produce more than a couple of (mens) players capable of stating on a European club team. Only recently, coinciding with the development of elite clubs/academies connected with a few of the MLS teams, have Americans broken into the European clubs with any regularity. And frankly, most of those players moved from America to Europe to train at a fairly young age.

The reality is that, given similar athlete characteristics (talent, drive, etc), the athlete with better access to good training, good coaching, and competitive opportunities is going to come out ahead. An athlete like Shiffrin or Bode can overcome some limitations in those externalities, but when you take an athlete like Shiffrin and provide her the access that she's had, that's how you get 88 (and counting) WC wins.

Could Shiffrin have ended up an incredible presence on the WC without some of the advantages her parents were able to provide? Most likely.

Would she have done so as young and had the dominant results she had early in her career? Watching from the outside (I have no connections to her or her coaches, so I have no idea what's actually going on within that team), a big part of that success seems connected to the dedicated practice she had put in on the road to get there. Without the time on snow and coaching support she did get, I think her talent and dedication would've been enough to advance through the US pipeline, but she would've needed more time on-snow to reach the level of technical mastery that she has.

There's also a big gulf between the systems that will drive wider participation and life-long engagement and those that will take a 12-year-old Shiffrin and have a World Cup winner at 17.

 

[fatbob]

As far as Mikaela being afforded different opportunities, well, I am sure her brother had the same ones. Mikaela had the natural talent and is using it to the max. I am not taking aything away from her brother but she is indeed a generational athlete.

Of course she is.

But there is no way of saying in the huge population of her age group there would not be others better than her if afforded exactly the same opportunities. It's a bit like a multiverse theory: there are conceptual worlds where her same talents made her a journeyman.

But there is little point to all that as you're never going to tap those athletes who just never got on skis or didn't have the parental income or support to get there. You still have plenty that do and still don't make an impact.

And I think people are overstating the population that are part of a perma ski culture in Europe. Certain geographies in Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Francem Sweden, Norway and Slovenia really. But it's precisely because of the communities in those areas being strongly supportive of all kids in the sports that a few get to rise to the top. Strikes me that the first question asked in the US is "where's your checkbook?" And while that remains the case, ski racing will be forever very much a minority sport and US success limited.

 

[fatbob]

I don't think ease of access and affordability are the only issues here. Look at soccer as an example. For decades, millions of American kids have been playing soccer and yet, until very recently, America has failed to produce more than a couple of (mens) players capable of stating on a European club team. Only recently, coinciding with the development of elite clubs/academies connected with a few of the MLS teams, have Americans broken into the European clubs with any regularity. And frankly, most of those players moved from America to Europe to train at a fairly young age.

Do the real jocks at any school play soccer as a first choice? Strikes me that HS basketball, football and softball/baseball are still pretty dominant? Certainly don't really see soccer covered on the local news when I'm in the US where high school/college sports in those other areas are.

 

[wolcoma]

Got to admit, I played soccer one year in high school due to a recovering broken collar bone sustained from ski racing and re-injured in a lacrosse game. Football though was way more fun than soccer.............not even close. Just learning all the plays, the physicality, and playing under the lights on Friday nights. It was so much fun! Our head football coach was a "Hall of Famer" in our area and he was part-time and had a "real job". He was also a referee for both football and lacrosse to pay the bills. Again the majority of high school coaches are part-time.

Mikaela Shiffrin has been so successful due to her hard work and obvious natural talent. A bad World Cup race for MS is 5th or 6th. Agreed she probably would not have reached 80 plus WC wins without BMA but I bet she would at least be at 60-70 by now coming out of say Pat's Peak or West Mountain. West Mountain is a program in northern NY that borders Vermont and they are an example of a club that is generating some very good FIS racers. They offer both day-time and night training for their athletes.

Again the USA with over 300M people and some of the best ski resorts in the world, I believe should be dominating the World Cup. I think these super expensive ski academy programs are actually holding back our junior development because they simply lock out too much talent that could be rising like Mikaela Shiffrin.