How to tell?...

[GA49]

Hi All,

I've asked questions her in the past and they were very direct problems I was trying to address, but maybe there's a better way to ask.

What should I be looking for to know a boot has been fit properly? I currently look for

1. Comfort - little to no discomfort while using
2. Snugness - feeling like it's supporting me.
3. Flex - feeling like I can press forward a little (this one is hard to figure out as easy as it sounds)

Is there anything else?

Thanks

~GA

 

[AngryAnalyst]

Describing how ski boots are supposed to fit, if you’ve never had a pair that fit well, is really hard. One of the things a great boot fitter is supposed to be able to do is ask you the right questions to help guide you towards a good fit. My take on the objectives of boot fitting as a fellow consumer of boot fitting services instead of a provider:
1. Comfort - your feet need to be comfortable enough they don’t hurt at the end of the day once the liners are broken in.
2. Snugness - it’s vitally important it is almost impossible to move the back half of your foot (the heel to mid foot or so). Toes can wiggle but probably not move side to side.
3. Flex - really hard to judge in a fitting environment because the plastics mostly aren’t temperature stable. Generally I worry it is too soft if I can bottom the boot out or noticeably deform the boot shape by leaning into the tongue at room temperature. Too stiff is a complete inability to lean forward past the angle of the boot.
4. Other performance objectives - some people need various stance modifying things like shims or canting to make up for physical limitations or achieve performance goals.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

For me, I can’t tell until I get them on snow. Can you ski well? All conditions? All the usual terrain? Are the skis stable and compliant? Is the foot snug in the boot in powder and chop?

 

[Zirbl]

your feet need to be comfortable enough they don’t hurt at the end of the day once the liners are broken in

I've heard people talking about 30 days for a liner to break in. Obviously this probably doesn't apply to someone in Vermont, but for people who don't live near a resort, that might be three years of shit ski trips. So your tolerance/needs must come into it. Also, if pain from the liner makes you avoid movements you need to make, thirty days of doing the wrong thing could take a lot of undoing.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

I've heard people talking about 30 days for a liner to break in. Obviously this probably doesn't apply to someone in Vermont, but for people who don't live near a resort, that might be three years of shit ski trips. So your tolerance/needs must come into it. Also, if pain from the liner makes you avoid movements you need to make, thirty days of doing the wrong thing could take a lot of undoing.

My rule of thumb on break in is closer to 3 days to a week. Depending on the type of liner, 30 days is actually closer to the service life than the break in period. It is true that 30 days in you will basically always be fully packed out, but that often means the liner is dead and you need an aftermarket replacement.

A lot also depends on how uncomfortable it actually is. For example, when I couldn’t feel my foot an hour into day one of my most recent boot I went in ASAP because I was worried about long term damage. I know some people expect to lose toenails in new liners but that isn’t something I grew up with so I’m not sure enough where the line between lost toenail and gangrene toe is to push it.

 

[GA49]

Describing how ski boots are supposed to fit, if you’ve never had a pair that fit well, is really hard. One of the things a great boot fitter is supposed to be able to do is ask you the right questions to help guide you towards a good fit. My take on the objectives of boot fitting as a fellow consumer of boot fitting services instead of a provider:
1. Comfort - your feet need to be comfortable enough they don’t hurt at the end of the day once the liners are broken in.
2. Snugness - it’s vitally important it is almost impossible to move the back half of your foot (the heel to mid foot or so). Toes can wiggle but probably not move side to side.
3. Flex - really hard to judge in a fitting environment because the plastics mostly aren’t temperature stable. Generally I worry it is too soft if I can bottom the boot out or noticeably deform the boot shape by leaning into the tongue at room temperature. Too stiff is a complete inability to lean forward past the angle of the boot.
4. Other performance objectives - some people need various stance modifying things like shims or canting to make up for physical limitations or achieve performance goals.

The flex part is kind of vague to me, likely due to my inexperience, but the general gist seems to be that I'm too big and heavy for 90 flex.

 

[KingGrump]

I've heard people talking about 30 days for a liner to break in.

Maybe it's me. My boots ski fine on first day. Usually get a new pair every two years. Around 250 ski days.
Always stock liner with he exception of the first gen Fischer Vac. Swapped the liner with an old pair of Raptor after 10 days. The stock liners always last the life of the boot. Had a Atomic liner with 400+ days on them. No heel pocket left, but still skied fine. Probably because I am old and ski softly.

The mind is a funny thing.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

The flex part is kind of vague to me, likely due to my inexperience, but the general gist seems to be that I'm too big and heavy for 90 flex.

Hard to judge but it sounds a bit off to me and apparently others. I think someone responded to your other thread saying they were 6’3” 225 and were fine as a developing skier in a 110 so maybe I’m wrong about 90 being too soft for you.

My perspective is coming from having noticeable performance improvements moving from ~120 flex consumer boots to ~140 recreational race boots as a more advanced skier. I also have softer touring boots and I notice performance loss in them vs. the bigger boots. Further, I have never used a 90 flex boot as an adult but I’ve never been an intermediate as an adult either.

I do think there is a bit of a mismatch between having a softer, lower end boot and a very precise ski like the collective was pitching in your other thread. All of that said, I could be off base on this. Go see a good fitter and ask them (or maybe one of the ones who hangs out on this forum will pop in here to opine).

 

[tromano]

They way you know your boots fit well is you get the skiing performance you want and your feet are not hurt as a result.

 

[GA49]

Called my local bootfitter and told him weight and height my size (didn't tell him my current size) and skill level and what my normal ski day was like and he told me 120s without hesitation lol... I guess my first boot fit last year was a little off.

Going to see him on Tuesday.

 

[GA49]

I currently have the Full Tilt Wrap Liner which I think in awesome for getting in and out of the boot (shell opens up and very easy). Does anyone know what boot vendors make boots with factory liners that are of this style (open up in the front vs a tongue style). I really prefer that kind of liner unless there's a technical downside to it.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

I currently have the Full Tilt Wrap Liner which I think in awesome for getting in and out of the boot (shell opens up and very easy). Does anyone know what boot vendors make boots with factory liners that are of this style (open up in the front vs a tongue style). I really prefer that kind of liner unless there's a technical downside to it.

I don’t know of a boot brand that does that style of liner. I would however encourage you to focus on how the boot fits above all else, because this varies quite materially by brand within a size.

 

[Ogg]

Boots should feel like a firm handshake and IME if they're actually comfortable before any work is done they're too loose. I expect hot spots before the fitter does their magic. My current boots took 3 visits to get dialed in. YMMV since everyone's feet and personal tolerances are different.

 

[Zirbl]

Maybe it's me. My boots ski fine on first day. Usually get a new pair every two years. Around 250 ski days.
Always stock liner with he exception of the first gen Fischer Vac. Swapped the liner with an old pair of Raptor after 10 days. The stock liners always last the life of the boot. Had a Atomic liner with 400+ days on them.

Similar experience with liners here. Don't really know what "packing out" is supposed to feel like.

 

[Zirbl]

I currently have the Full Tilt Wrap Liner which I think in awesome for getting in and out of the boot (shell opens up and very easy). Does anyone know what boot vendors make boots with factory liners that are of this style (open up in the front vs a tongue style). I really prefer that kind of liner unless there's a technical downside to it.

You mean the Intuition liners?

 

[cantunamunch]

I currently have the Full Tilt Wrap Liner which I think in awesome for getting in and out of the boot (shell opens up and very easy). Does anyone know what boot vendors make boots with factory liners that are of this style (open up in the front vs a tongue style). I really prefer that kind of liner unless there's a technical downside to it.

Dalbello also do Wrap style liners, as do some touring boots. Or you can get one from Intuition aftermarket.

 

[James]

Maybe it's me. My boots ski fine on first day. Usually get a new pair every two years. Around 250 ski days.
Always stock liner with he exception of the first gen Fischer Vac. Swapped the liner with an old pair of Raptor after 10 days. The stock liners always last the life of the boot. Had a Atomic liner with 400+ days on them. No heel pocket left, but still skied fine. Probably because I am old and ski softly.

The mind is a funny thing.

There’s an examiner telling people boots, the shells, are done after 40 days. Can’t make this stuff up.

 

[cantunamunch]

There’s an examiner telling people boots, the shells, are done after 40 days. Can’t make this stuff up.

Wait, what?

 

[James]

Wait, what?

Yep. I mean outside of wcup or high level racing, who in their right mind would go through a bootfitting again after 40 days? I’d have to get the boot for free.

 

[Zirbl]

There’s an examiner telling people boots, the shells, are done after 40 days. Can’t make this stuff up.

Heard the Global Skiing podcast where Eric Schlopy says his Nordicas skied better cracked?