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Boot fit confusion

scowar

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Hello everyone - new to the site. So i'm getting back into skiing after about a 20 year hiatus. I skied quite a bit when I was younger (ages 15-25), but am 45 now. I will not be racing, mainly skiing blue and blacks, some moguls, etc. I live in mid Michigan lower peninsula so we're talking all groomed trails with some ice. Unfortunately probably no trips out west to any real mountains. So there's the background info. Where I live (near Flint) there are no boot fitters or anyone of that specialty. In fact there is really only one ski shop around that has been in business forever in the area. I've been there twice in the past week trying to nail down a proper boot. The first person I dealt with did all the measurements and said I was a 27.5. I tried a few on. Very comfortable size. Easy to walk around on. Toes just touch the end of the boot when standing upright/walking and pull back (not touching the front at all) when flexed forward into ski position. I returned a few days later and had a different person help me. He said the 27.5 was too big for me and advised me to go with 26.5. Now the 26.5 feels quite small length-wise when walking around. In fact my big toe has to curl up slightly when standing upright and walking around which causes discomfort since every time you take a step the already slightly curled big toe jams into the front. However when in ski position the toes pull back of course and are just barely touching the end so there is light contact (unlike the 27.5 where there is no contact with the front in ski position). He said this is what you want when you are skiing is to feel the end of the boot for better control. He also mentioned the liners will wear in with use and they probably won't be quite so uncomfortable after skiing in them a few times. He said not to worry about how it feels when standing upright/walking, that what matters is how it feels in a ski position. I mean it makes sense I guess, but damn the 27.5 felt so much more comfortable walking around the room. I've done lots of research on the web these last few days and I do read a lot on how your boots should fit tight and that you don't want a boot that fits too loose like a tennis shoe, but how tight is too tight? The rest of the fit on the 26.5 feels fine, it's just the big toe jamming into the front. He did heat the liner up for 10 minutes and had me try it back on for a while, but it didn't feel all that different. Any advice would be appreciated.

As a side note - this probably has no correlation to ski boot sizes, but I pretty much wear a size 10 across the board in shoe size.
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
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What else can you tell us about your foot? Wide or Narrow; Flat Foot or High Arch; One foot larger than the other and which one is larger etc.?

I also have a size ten shoe and I use a 26.5 Technica boot.
 

bbinder

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The second fitter is trying to sell you the correct size, listen to him.
This. If you eventually feel that the 26.5 is really too small, then room can be made in the shell by punching, shaving, or otherwise making it bigger. You can't make a big shell smaller. And, by the way, did they do a shell fit? Chances are it is the liner making your toes curl, not the shell. The liner can be modified in oh so many ways.
 

RuleMiHa

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I lived near Saginaw for a few years, at the time there was no one who had a clue (on my darkest days I was convinced shops conspired to make sure I stayed in boots that maximized my daily misery). IIRC there's a shop in Ann Arbor that's part of the America's Best Bootfitter's network, I think that might be your best option.
 
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scowar

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Thanks for the replies. So yes they took the liner out of the shell and had me put my foot forward and measured the space behind. Can't remember if both guys did this with both feet though. I just measured my feet tracing them onto paper both sitting and standing. Lo and behold my feet are different size. Never knew this. Granted this is a pretty rudimentary way to measure here but I got the following:

Right foot - 26.7 sitting, 26.9 standing
Left foot - 26.3 sitting, 26.5 standing

My feet are not wide. Regular arches I think. Never had any arch issues and have never had anyone tell me I have flat or high arches. I'm 5'10" 175 lbs.
 

Fuller

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I had to ditch my 27.5 boots for a 26.5 shell after a similar experience. I'm in Florida, there are ski shops here but they assume we are all "resort skiers" and just want to be comfortable until the hot tub is the right temperature and the bar opens (not that I mind comfort, hot tubs and alcohol). Hence the bias towards larger than necessary sizes.

You are getting good advice here...
 

Read Blinn

lakespapa
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Well, I'd go to a real fitter, given a chance. Really comfortable, before modifications, isn't a performance fit for most people. I suppose, if you can't travel to a real fitter (Michigan isn't that far from Vermont, really -- and what about that Ann Arbor shop?), I'd guess the 26.5 would be a better bet. You can always get them modified later.

I'd be happier recommending a boot fitter, though.
 

Pat AKA mustski

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A problem that I see is that when there are no boot fitters to make shell modifications, uncomfortable boots remain uncomfortable. While it's possible that there will be no toe issues once the liner packs out a bit, if there are hot spots, a competent boot fitter will be needed to modify the shell. It might be wiser to travel to Ann Arbor to purchase your boots and be able to return multiple times to have them modified as needed. Usually modifications are included when purchasing the boot through a boot fitter.
 

Read Blinn

lakespapa
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A problem that I see is that when there are no boot fitters to make shell modifications, uncomfortable boots remain uncomfortable. While it's possible that there will be no toe issues once the liner packs out a bit, if there are hot spots, a competent boot fitter will be needed to modify the shell. It might be wiser to travel to Ann Arbor to purchase your boots and be able to return multiple times to have them modified as needed. Usually modifications are included when purchasing the boot through a boot fitter.

That was my reservation.
 

Sibhusky

Whitefish, MT
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Go with the smaller one. The liner will pack out in about ten days, maybe less. Frankly, if it's not excruciating, I wouldn't even have them blow out a toe until I had the ten days in.

And be willing to travel for a bootfitter. Best is right by where you ski, of course, so you can run in midday and say, almost but a bit more right here..
 

Dwight

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Central NSP is having a retreat shortly at Boyne, I think. They will have a traveling boot fitter there.

We are fortunate to have Jeannie Thoren offering boot fitting.

Whether you register for the meeting or not you are invited to take advantage of her expertise. You will find her very good and worth taking the time. We all know the having our platform, our feet, working right makes skiing that much better.

She is taking 1/2-hour appointments Saturday (September 9th) between 10 and 4 to help fit current boots or new ones if have purchased them for the coming season and want a great fit. She is not selling boots but is great at recommending boots for your special feet.

I personally had her fit both my Tele and Alpine boots and what a difference it has
made. She will work with lifts and whatever is needed to get a great fit for you, your
spouse, teen racers out growing everything or whomever you wish to bring. Your feet and skiing will love you!

If your boots are just right she will let you know. You will need a pair of shorts and your boots of course. Take advantage of this special offer of her time. $20 for the 1/2 hour is sooo worth it.

Call Tena Lechtanski for an appointment 231-529-6209
Let’s show Jeannie what a powerful group of patrollers we have in Michigan.

She will also be our guest speaker Saturday night if you choose to take part.

Hope to see all of you there.

Charlon Hibbard
NMR Women’s Advisor
248-705-5479

Paul Engbretson of Viking Ski Shop Inc. says of Jeannie,

A pioneer in the design and fitting of ski equipment for women, Jeannie Thoren has been addressing boot fitting issues with discerning skiers for decades. She has worked with many ski shops, including Viking SkiShop in Chicago, and helps annually with fitting at the National SkiPatrol’s swap in the Windy City Ski Show. For her role in the advancement of our sport, Jeannie was inducted into the U.S. Ski & Snowboard Hall of Fame in 2014.

Cheers -

Paul Engbretson
Viking Ski Shop Inc.
 

Philpug

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Thanks for the replies. So yes they took the liner out of the shell and had me put my foot forward and measured the space behind. Can't remember if both guys did this with both feet though. I just measured my feet tracing them onto paper both sitting and standing. Lo and behold my feet are different size. Never knew this. Granted this is a pretty rudimentary way to measure here but I got the following:

Right foot - 26.7 sitting, 26.9 standing
Left foot - 26.3 sitting, 26.5 standing

My feet are not wide. Regular arches I think. Never had any arch issues and have never had anyone tell me I have flat or high arches. I'm 5'10" 175 lbs.

I measure pretty much the same as your bigger foot. I ski in a 25.5 with no shell modification. I am not saying that you should ski in a 25 but I am making a point. What you are feeling with the 26.5 that you tried is that you are feeling your toe against the liner, not the shell. It is OK to touch the end of the liner even in a ski or attack stance. Seeing that you foot does not change much weighted or unweighted is good. Did you have any type of footbed besides stock in the shell, Superfeet, custom, anything? That will help to hold the foot from moving foreward. Remember too, when you go to a larger shell, you are not just adding length but the whole volume of the boot increases. You mentioned that when you tried the 26.5 on it felt good everywhere but the end of the toe. If you go to a larger size, you will be addressing one small aspect but ignoring everything else. You will then be chasing more problems than in the 26.5 which the issues that that boot has now, that should go away after a clouple of days of skiing.
 
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scowar

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Philpug - no they were just the stock footbeds in there. I did see they had some type of orange aftermarket ones available, maybe I'll look into those. Wow you ski in a 25.5 with similar foot size to mine. It must be the liner scrunching my toes up then for sure. I swear it felt like the hard shell I was pushing into.

Thank you all for the knowledgeable responses, you guys are awesome. The 26.5 sounds like the right choice for sure in this scenario. Or check out the fitter in Ann Arbor since that's not too far away. Just for some clarity here, what exactly does it mean to have a fitter "blow out a toe"? I assume it means to elongate the toe area in the shell somehow? How exactly is this done and how much extra room can be added? I certainly never looked into boots this closely when I was younger. Just got the pair that felt comfortable and looked cool haha. Probably skied in the wrong size the whole time.
 

eok

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My experience is that "comfortable" means different things to different skiers. An occasional skier will surely think oversized boots feel comfortable. An expert skier will put on a boot sized to their taste and say it's "comfortable" - but it's actually a very very tight fit & will be gripping their feet like a healthy boa constrictor on crack. That's because they know that after some break-in & some boot work, they'll be a a good firm fit.

I have 29.5 feet (one foot is closer to 30). I (usually) end up in 28.5 boots. Depends on the shell. I have had 27.5 boots that worked well too after some boot work.

Late last season I got new boots. Nice firm fit. Toes curled a bit during the initial fit session, but I knew it wasn't an issue. To me, they felt "comfortable" - but that really meant a super tight fit I knew I could work with. I expected I'd need some boot work after skiing in them for a few runs and that's exactly what happened - and where I left them. I'll be getting boot work done on them at the start of the season. Both boots need some punching at the toes and the 5th metatarsals due to some crushing hot spots. I'm going to give custom insoles a shot first (I have a problem with one of my arches that I really want to address in my fit this time around). Then the rest of the boot work - or whatever my fitter recommends. And that's the key. If you are lucky enough to find a good boot fitter: trust them. A good one can change your life - for the better. ;^)
 

Fishbowl

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From personal experience, I would only go with the smaller boot IF you have access to a good bootfitter for the original fitting and followup adjustments. Although the larger boots will trade some control for comfort, you will at least be able to enjoy your time on the slopes. A poor fitting tight boot can ruin your season very quickly. And, the liner packing out is rarely the different between an uncomfortable boot in the shop suddenly becoming bliss on the slopes. Again, just in my experience.
 

markojp

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Ann Arbor really isn't a huge schlep from Flint. Do the right thing. Go Blue! :golfclap:
 

Jilly

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Blow out the toe....a fitter will warm up the shell and stretch the plastic to fit. They have some really neat tools to do this. Speaking of traveling, I spend more time on the road visiting my fitter than I do in his shop. He's 3 hours away right now, but he'll be in Whistler for the winter. It's so worth it.
 

Philpug

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There is a difference between downsizing a boot and right sizing. I beleive in right sizing, putting the customer is a boot that is the right size for their foot. If the OP measures what he says weighted and unweighted there is no reason he should be in a larger than 26.5 boot. After 3-4 days of skiing and that liner starts packing out, he will have reduced control of the ski and the boot will be very uncomfortable. While it sounds like the second fitter did put him in the correct size, by not using some sort of proper footbed makes me question if he even used a thin sock for the fit process.
 

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