Your best tips for somewhat newbie racers

[deadheadskier]

Hi all, looking to up my GS racing game. I'm not knowledgeable about racing really at all. I grew up a competitive mogul skier and only raced for a few weeks my senior in highschool until my season got cut short due to a crash and injury.

Fast forward to three seasons ago. After several years of recruiting I finally said yes to join a buddies ARL team at Pat's Peak. I absolutely love it. Last night was the start to our third season.

A bit about me: I'm 48 years old and this year I'm racing on Nordica Doberman GSM pistons that are 180cm with a 19.5m radius. I like them much better than the 185cm 23m used Rossi Hero Master I had been on my first two seasons. I've never scored a gold medal in ARL or NASTAR, but I'm getting close. Last night I finished 17th of 79 racers with a 20.68 handicap.

What were some tips that really helped you get to that next level? Any online training videos you felt really helped you shave time? I'm talking technique and not ski prep.

I'm attending my first Masters GS camp next Wednesday at MT. Snow. Really hoping that provides at least a couple aha moments to help me correct mistakes that are slowing me down.

Thanks!

 

[crgildart]

Ditch the puffy jacket and baggy pants.

 

[Philpug]

Paging @Rudi Riet and @ScotsSkier to the SkiTalk Courtesy Phone

 

[Rudi Riet]

Fast forward to three seasons ago. After several years of recruiting I finally said yes to join a buddies ARL team at Pat's Peak. I absolutely love it. Last night was the start to our third season.

Welcome back to the land of bashing plastic - or in the case of GS, brushing plastic.

A bit about me: I'm 48 years old and this year I'm racing on Nordica Doberman GSM pistons that are 180cm with a 19.5m radius... Last night I finished 17th of 79 racers with a 20.68 handicap.

Good on 'ya! That Dobermann GSR is a much more forgiving ski than the Rossi Hero and won't stand in the way of progress. Not that the Rossi would, but it's a much more demanding ski and could hinder you at the present time. You may end up stepping back onto the Rossi in the future, though - who knows?

What were some tips that really helped you get to that next level? Any online training videos you felt really helped you shave time? I'm talking technique and not ski prep.

Given your initial exposure to racing was in the days before shapely GS skis there's a lot that has changed. The overall technique is much different than it was, and the technique was ripped wide open by folks like Ligety, Hirscher, Shiffrin, and Odermatt.

There's a lot out there on YouTube if you want good visual references for strong, high-edge-angle GS turns that take full advantage of modern skis and technique. The first thing that a lot of use have to undo is the extreme counter and the hip dumping that happens as a result. This video spells out the differences between square, countered, and rotated in modern racing parlance.

Next, the big thing that a lot of folks returning to racing do is maximize their edge pressure at the end of the turn, rather than near the apex. It's a weird feeling to go against - that feeling like you have a strong brace against your skis, etc. - but it's a braking maneuver and slows speed. So the key is getting good, early initiation with the inside leg edge (ILE), being on the balls of your feet (I don't use "front of the boot" because being constantly mashed against the tongue all the time is a static position).

There are great videos that cover the ILE movements. Deb Armstrong covers initiation with ILE here, and turn radius adjustment with ILE here. And learning to optimize edge pressure is covered in this video by Ski Dad.

This is a compendium of good carving exercises for racing by TDK.

And this set of drills is good for any kind of turn.

I'm attending my first Masters GS camp next Wednesday at MT. Snow. Really hoping that provides at least a couple aha moments to help me correct mistakes that are slowing me down.

Hopefully the coaches at this camp will do a lot of video review with you, showing you what is and isn't working. They can then prescribe drills to hone technique.

One thing is certain: you will improve! You're showing the drive to invest in your skiing and it'll pay off. Keep us posted!

 

[deadheadskier]

Great stuff. Thank you!

 

[nnowak]

Look ahead. Don't focus on the gate directly in front of you, but instead look through the turn to the next gate. You should always be looking one and a half to two gates down the hill. What you do with your eyes sets the stage for everything else.

 

[dan ross]

I say go for it - it’s going to be great because of your attitude. I too raced and competed in moguls( long ago) and have lately thought about jumping into Masters if for no other reason than it’s an objective way to measure progress and a new /old challenge. Also being able to rip big turns on a closed course is worth the price of admission.
Fortunately, we have people here like @Rudi Riet who is knowledgeable and a real asset especially where racing is concerned. Listen to Rudy, he is wise.

 

[Swede]

Ski and drill outside the course, to improve technique. Build strength in the gym. Your strength and technique will dictate what tactics you can handle in a course. Practice tactics when you’re in a course. Get proper racing boots that is properly fitted to you.

 

[Dfish]

General tips, as obviously none can give you specific coaching advice.

1. Millage- for less experienced racers, there is no substitute for simply putting in time on gates, run as many of them as often as possible.

2. Learn to inspect the course predict lines, where you can take risks and where you need to hold back or be on a specific line(I.e. terrain change to steeper slope). Good racers can run the entire course in their head before the run, often within a second of two of the real run.

In addition, watch racers before you on the course to see where trouble spots are, and adjust your plan of attack.

3.Make mistakes on the same course. If you have an hour or two training on the same course, specifically try different things. Go too straight, take risks, and be ok with skiing out or not making a gate. In order to ski faster, you need to ski faster. So go faster without fear of skiing out, and refine your technique and lines untill you fine that ballance between skiing as fast as you can, and skiing out. NOTE- don't simply ski out cause you got late In a turn, you should be skiing as fast as possible and be doing everything in your power to still make it down. To many racers just ski out the first turn they get back or late on.

4. 8 months of the year you are not on skis, so take fitness seriously, crossfit is great training, but it's important to go to a gym that wont push you too hard and hurt yourself. Better if you can find one that tailor WODs to skiing, for example.

5. general drills out of gates, I have specific ones for specific things I'm trying to correct in a racer, so figure out what you should be working on (from a coach) and find drills that help correct problems

6. I personally wouldn't get lost in watching WC racers, it's essentially a different sport than a nastar race. I would ask a spouse to video the top guys in your race, and video you, and compare the difference. The caveat may be they are doing things wrong too, but you can see where maybe you lost time, where they did something right. I feel it may be too big a jump to compare the skiing style of yourself on nastar course to WC skier on a WC course. Although there are certainly things to be learned from watching WC skiers.

7. Have fun, As someone who once took racing way too seriously, you always ski faster when your are relaxed and having fun (but also as sharp as a knife).

 

[deadheadskier]

Thanks guys

For boots I'm on Nordica Speed machine 130. It was a toss up between those and the Pro Machine. Both options professionally selected by Paul Richelson and fitted with custom orthotics. I opted for the Speed over the Pro as I felt they fit slightly better and were a better choice for the mostly bump and tree skiing I do when not racing. Slightly less stiff even though both have a 130 flex rating.

As for fitness, on a good week I'm in the gym six days. Four days upper body, two days lower. Bad weeks I make it 3-4 times. Definitely in the best shape I've been in in a decade. Still improving though.

I mentioned I don't need ski prep help, but that's not all together true. I basically use the Nordica Doberman GSM pistons (not GSR) 5 runs on race nights and 6-8 training runs on Sundays. 9 week race season. I get them race prepped once at the start of the season and once in the middle. 3 edge and 1 base for bevels

Can anyone link up a spray on or other easily applicable wax product for race nights? I don't have the time or equipment to hot wax at home. Usually running late from work to make the night races. So I need something super easy.

What about a stone to touch up edges?

 

[jt10000]

What about a stone to touch up edges?

I don't race but my boy and his friend are starting. Their coaches say to touch up the edges after every workout, so we do the side edges with a stone and a guide every time. A bench and vise make this easy.

Holmenkol liquid as the wax - it's quick. We try to leave it on overnight before brushing - I suspect longevity is better that way but do not know for sure.

I don't know much about alpine race waxing or the liquid waxes, but from years of recreational XC ski racing I believe that waxing regularly and keeping the skis clean are very important.

After about 18 days on snow this season with near daily liquid waxing, the boy's skis look about as shiny at the end of each day as at the start, which is a good sign the liquids are working. We've hotwaxed once in this period.

 

[deadheadskier]

Thanks for those tips on ski prep, but that's beyond what I have time, skill and will for.

I'm literally looking for the simplest solutions possible for the bases and edges that I can do in five minutes or less when I pull the skis out of the car in the parking lot.

 

[jt10000]

The waxing I'm describing takes 3 minutes total per pair (application and brush off). Maybe less. I don't watch them drying so don't count that time. You could apply the wax at home after bringing your skis inside (one minute) then brush them out at the venue I guess (another minute or two). It's faster on the bench in decent light though.

There is near zero skill involved in waxing this way (other than remembering to shake the bottle LOL). Toko (and others) make similar products with similarly easy application.


The edge work takes less than 10 minutes per pair, and I'm getting faster. Doing it in a parking lot would take more time because of the set-up, lighting, etc would not be good. I don't think there is a simpler or faster way to do it. Maybe doing it less often? But then again the edge work is fast because the skis are kept pretty sharp all the time.

There is skill involved in this edge work and I'm still learning! That is part of the process.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Here's the deal with spray and liquid waxes: they have a lot of solvent and very little wax in them and the key is to let the wax absorb as much as possible before taking them on snow. So your best bet is to dry your skis immediately after skiing (yay, microfiber towels), apply the wax then and there, let it set, and then it'll be ready for the next day.

But no spray or liquid can hold a candle to a proper hot wax. Hot wax permeates the base, bolstering its durability and lasting a lot longer. I know this takes more time than you likely have, @deadheadskier, but doing this at least once every 2 weeks or monthly pays dividends.

And the edges will need more frequent attention to retain sharpness. A 3°/1° setup rounds out fairly quickly on ice if it's skidded. The best advice I can give if you can't address them more frequently: dry the skis immediately after you're done skiing. Moisture on the edges causes oxidation which is a big enemy of sharp edges. You can even use a rub-on wax as a protectant once they are dry.

 

[deadheadskier]

You are missing my point @jt10000 . I'm having shops do 98% of the work. Between a busy family life and 125 nights a year traveling for work, I really do not have time or desire to do any bench work at home.

I'm just looking for some last minute solutions I can do in the parking lot to touch up immediately before the races. Any spray on, no scrape type wax and a stone to touch up edges without a guide.

Maybe it's not something worth even bothering with, but I figured I'd ask

 

[Rudi Riet]

You are missing my point. I'm having shops do 98% of the work. Between a busy family life and 125 nights a year traveling for work, I really do not have time or desire to do any bench work at home.

Preaching to the choir here and I know from not having free cycles.

I'm just looking for some last minute solutions I can do in the parking lot to touch up immediately before the races. Any spray on, no scrape type wax and a stone to touch up edges without a guide.

For edges you need a guide - full stop. Freehanding an edge bevel is left to the professional ski tuners who've been doing it for years. Luckily, a pocket-ready 3° guide that can handle a small diamond stone is relatively simple to use and wouldn't take much time at all.

One thing to ask of your shop, tho: have them cut the sidewall so you can stone nothing but edge. Otherwise you won't be doing much with the stone.

 

[jt10000]

You are missing my point. I'm having shops do 98% of the work. Between a busy family life and 125 nights a year traveling for work, I really do not have time or desire to do any bench work at home.

I'm just looking for some last minute solutions I can do in the parking lot to touch up immediately before the races. Any spray on, no scrape type wax

I didn't understand how a visit to a shop for regular waxing and edge work is faster than the 15 minutes I described. If you have a shop so handy that's great.

Certainly shop work a couple times a season to really set the edges makes sense for most of us.

a stone to touch up edges without a guide.

Maybe it's not something worth even bothering with

If skill is an issue, don't do that.

 

[jt10000]

Here's the deal with spray and liquid waxes: they have a lot of solvent and very little wax in them and the key is to let the wax absorb as much as possible before taking them on snow. So your best bet is to dry your skis immediately after skiing (yay, microfiber towels), apply the wax then and there, let it set, and then it'll be ready for the next day.

Yup. Wax application like this is really fast. Before training it probably need not be brushed out (at least on clean snow).

 

[deadheadskier]

I didn't understand how a visit to a shop for regular waxing and edge work is faster than the 15 minutes I described. If you have a shop so handy that's great.

Certainly shop work a couple times a season to really set the edges makes sense for most of us.

If skill is an issue, don't do that.

I drop the skis off at the Gunstock tuning shop on my way to the lift on Saturday morning, use another set of skis for the weekend and they have them ready for me Sunday afternoon after skiing. Super simple.

I definitely appreciate what you shared, but again, no interest at all in doing bench work at home.

 

[nnowak]

Thanks for those tips on ski prep, but that's beyond what I have time, skill and will for.

I'm literally looking for the simplest solutions possible for the bases and edges that I can do in five minutes or less when I pull the skis out of the car in the parking lot.

That is a problem. What was recommended above is already the quickest minimum tune possible. With GS, and especially SL, edge sharpness has a greater impact on performance than wax. Not that wax doesn't matter, but if you have dull edges and are skidding turns, slightly better glide is irrelevant.

Consistency is very important for racing. You want your gear to feel the same every time on the hill. If your skis are only getting sharpened at a shop once a month, building skills on the hill will be infinitely more difficult. Shop tunes also aren't all that consistent either.

If you are remotely serious about racing, you need to learn the basics of tuning and do it regularly. It is more important than which brand or model of ski you are using.