Skiing Styles

[ScotsSkier]

Huh, what next....people will try to claim Geology is a real science .....as Sheldon would say....

 

[Josh Matta]

As a physicist in my former life, I'm going to jump in:

1) Chemistry is NOT a subset of physics. Chemistry is defined as a science dealing with systems large enough the individual physical process is NOT the dominant factor. Instead, the system that is a collection of individual physical systems has unique behavior that's described by...chemistry! (biology isn't a subset of chemistry either)

That said, this argument is pretty tangential to the skiing style discussion.

2) Physics can both describe and determines how objects move. Because fundamentally physics determines how things moves, if you do understand physics, you can then describe any movement with principle of physics.

This also have very little to do with skiing style

3) As someone posted, two racers can take 2 different path and reach the bottom at the same time, there're often times more than one way to achieve a result. Physics allows that. Any time you have more than one factors, you can have more than one solutions. Any multi-variable equation can have more than one solution: the same number of solution as the number of variables. That's not even physics. That's high school math.

So, skiing being a multi-variable physics problem, there will be more than one way to ski that're equally efficient!

But before we conclude styles are different way of skiing, keep in mind also even the goal of skiing are not unique. Some people ski to be at the bottom the quickest (racers), at any cost. Others to gain the maximum height & hang time (freestylers). Still others to minimize the stress to the joints, sacrificing speed and distance (old geezers).

And we haven't even start to take into account of physiological difference of human bodies yet.

The understanding of physics required to effectively coach skiers is just fairly broad understanding of basic mechanics. If you break every movement down objectively fitting into the skiers goals, you will see that despite a slight difference in tactics being employed that the best skier will looks more similar than they look different.

and as we get to middle of pack skiers their movements pattern will be vastly different, not due to different goals, but due to ineffective movements from either a lack of understanding, or from a lack of ability or a combination of the both.

 

[James]

Huh, what next....people will try to claim Geology is a real science .....as Sheldon would say....

Of course geology is a science. Are you really referencing a tv show?
What's next, the Earth is 7,000 yrs old?

You really don't need physics to coach skiing.
The big problem with skiing vis a vis boots is there so little science involved. Basically it's voodoo and dart throwing.

 

[crgildart]

We can't even seem to agree whether or not ski bases are porous enough to absorb wax.

 

[Josh Matta]

We can't even seem to agree whether or not ski bases are porous enough to absorb wax.

depends on the material....

 

[crgildart]

depends on the material....

Sintered

 

[James]

We can't even seem to agree whether or not ski bases are porous enough to absorb wax.

Who's this "we"?
Base material is spec'd on wax absorption properties. It varies from spec but still. It's measured.

 

[pais alto]

We can't even seem to agree whether or not ski bases are porous enough to absorb wax.

depends on the material....

Sintered

Who's this "we"?
Base material is spec'd on wax absorption properties. It varies from spec but still. It's measured.

 

[crgildart]

Who's this "we"?
Base material is spec'd on wax absorption properties. It varies from spec but still. It's measured.

Myths about UHMW Base Material and New Base Material Idea

 

[James]

Myths about UHMW Base Material and New Base Material Idea

I see...

 

[graham418]

Talk about thread drift.
@James , good effort to get it back on track!!

 

[Varmintmist]

I promise you, I did not upload this to brag about my skiing (it's best with sound!):

But that shows so much style. I liked the right cheek bounce to faceplant, but the total surrender slide was awesome. 8.5 from the Scottish judge.

 

[Varmintmist]

Exactly, style is like a fingerprint each of has. Our own unique flavor.

So if my style stinks, is pretty heavy, takes effort to produce, I feel flushed, and yet always seem to move downhill,,,,,,

 

[Guy in Shorts]

As the OP I would love to thank all who chimed in on this thread. Many points and ideas covered here filled my head through the season. Nailing the hard cross was drill the @Brian Finch suggested and it helps to keep me forward. So many ideas that @Josh Matta put in my head that I looked for him at my one Stowe day this season but instead I found his roommate Jake. Nice guy but he said Josh was the only that would be able to give me a critical assessment. I have also paid a lot of attention and shadowed the many different ski instructors that routinely join up with us. One level 3 friend said she was working on ski skating the many runouts that we have here at Killington. Great tip that I practiced that a lot for the reminder of the season. Now skiing at our resort is reduced to surviving on 17 acres of world class moguls. After spending 140 days on snow and over 1.5 million vertical feet this season I had to ask my wife the Question

Am I skiing any better?

She answers sincerely “ Hon you look the same as you always have.”

A little disappointed but not surprised at the results. Change is a hard thing. In my next ski life I will find @Bob Barnes and start my skiing obsessive quest off on the right foot.

 

[François Pugh]

Skiing is both science and art. Science contributes to style in that form follows intent and function and leads to style. Art contributes, in much the same way as two great guitarists will differ in their playing and be recognizable.

Agree, that you should ignore style, and concentrate on skiing. Looking good is a consequence of skiing well.

 

[john petersen]

I see...

THAT is unarguably high style in an age where the ART of skiing was at a high point. talk about great marketing!...who didnt want to go skiing after seeing that film footage?....who doesnt want to go skiing right now!.....
where are my Warren Miller VHS tapes?!

great stuff, James..thanks for posting......

Style never really goes out of style, does it?

JP

 

[john petersen]

Guyinshorts said
"Exactly, style is like a fingerprint each of us has. Our own unique flavor".

So if my style stinks, is pretty heavy, takes effort to produce, I feel flushed, and yet always seem to move downhill,,,,,,

Varmintmist, in fingerprint terms, you leave a lot of ink on the paper from pushing really hard on the ink pad till your face turns red, then smear the thumbprint?
technically,that's still a 'style'.

Skiing is both science and art. Science contributes to style in that form follows intent and function and leads to style. Art contributes, in much the same way as two great guitarists will differ in their playing and be recognizable.
Agree, that you should ignore style, and concentrate on skiing. Looking good is a consequence of skiing well.

what Francois said......the great writers on the subject would agree with the above for the most part...but they do not ignore style, they talk about striving for it.....

I especially like the way you refer to technique as a means to functionality....which of course leads to individual style.....the ART of it all is your expression of creativity and experiential enjoyment. It can be felt by the participant and seen by the viewer whenever technique is transcended.

The stroke of the brush on canvas, the arc of a "perfect" turn, a satisfying line through a chicane, catching air and landing clean, nailing the red buoys in the water ski course, firing that perfect shot,

whoah, that was deep....I need coffee!



JP

 

[Varmintmist]

I was thinking more in plumbing terms.......


I think the "style" comes in when you are doing it right. Meaning if you are doing it well, you will be more relaxed and it will show.

 

[Uncle-A]

I was thinking more in plumbing terms.......


I think the "style" comes in when you are doing it right. Meaning if you are doing it well, you will be more relaxed and it will show.

I think that confidence when skiing is what you are referring to, when you have everything going well it just flows turn to turn. On days that it is not working you look and feel out of the zone and that's a bad day. I am guessing that we all have had those days, I know that I have had at least one this season.

 

[James]

Style is not just body movements.

One of the most influential skiers ever. Certainly 1967 through the 1992 Olympics in Albertville.

No sound. The original on the Sybervision production has very nice acoustic piano music.