Help needed for "complete beginner" gear (and intro post, hi!)

[JamesB]

First up: I've been skiing for a while (more on that in a minute) and I'm looking for help for getting gear for my wife, who is just getting started (like "has been twice and may get off the carpet lift soon" beginner level). My gut says that almost anything is better than rental gear - both for price and for usability - but I wanted some help narrowing the search. She's 5'6 and 130. Length "calculators" put her appropriate ski length at 150-155, but I'm thinking that is for "skiing linked turns off of a lift serviced chair" beginner, not "just learning to turn" beginner. I'm thinking that something no shorter than 130 and no longer than 150 is probably right? And I'm thinking a lot of ski options - from materials to ski shape to camber - are probably less important than "just getting out there" ...but if I'm wrong, please tell me! I've been looking at used gear. Any advice/help/pointers for getting something in a "better than rental gear but isn't going to leave a smoking hole in my wallet" setup? We just picked up used what seem to be *perfect* boots for her - they are 80 flex, they're a few years old, but they fit, and the moment she put them on she said "WHOA THESE ARE SO MUCH LIGHTER THAN THE RENTALS!!!" which was a great start.

I'll retract the following if it' s not allowed, but - There's this attitude I have seen and heard around most skiing groups that you dare not adjust your own bindings, because of the risk of injury. I'm pretty mechanically competent - I've replaced (for example) the brakes on both my bicycles and my cars, both of which can kill you and others if you mess it up. Can someone help make it make sense? Is binding adjustment really that much of a "seriously, leave it to the professionals every time" thing, or is it more of a "don't mess with it unless you understand it" thing? And if it's the latter, are there good resources for understanding it - beyond "OK, I've read the chart and I understand the physics involved"

Part 2 of this - by way of introduction - I kind of have always felt like an outsider with skiing. I grew up in the northeast and there was lots of skiing available, but I was the only person in my family with any interest in it. In high school, I joined the club, started reading magazines, bought my own gear, and had to figure a lot out on my own. There was no Internet, there were no forums, I taught myself to ski using a Warren Miller VHS tape, literally watching it the night before then going out the next day and trying to remember what a linked Christie was. After high school, I skied less and less, then about 4 years ago, I got back into it. So I have this weird level of skiing knowledge - where I have the muscle memory and skills to ski pretty okay, but am absolutely lost with a lot of the terminology that I'm seeing. I learned a lot of what I know on a pair of Olins that I picked up secondhand, and have to resist to call everything I see now "newfangled". I'm getting back to being able to do bumps, I'm remembering how much fun air is, but I couldn't tell you what "all-mountain" or "frontside" or "rocker" means. TLDR: I'm in a weird position of being both an old-timer and a newbie.... Hi!

 

[cantunamunch]

I understand the distinction you made in your first paragraph, but here is the rub - if you buy beginner beginner skis + and boots that actually fit - she will outgrow the skis in about 10 days of skiing.

Don't try to train yourself as a bootfitter - you will stretch her learning curve into several seasons. Don't try to take her word on comfort - she doesn't know how a boot is supposed to fit. Don't go by shoe size.

After that, take whichever path fits you both and gives you enough fun.

And welcome.

 

[Wade]

Welcome!

Around 150cm length and 75mm to 85mm width sounds about right to me. I’d advise against going anywhere near 130cm. As a reference point, my 65lb 10 year old daughter is on 139s. She’s a good skier, but even if she was a beginner, I couldn’t see going below about 130 for her.

 

[Pequenita]

The bindings is mostly about liability. For someone who doesn't want to take them into the shop, the main thing is that the visual indicators (for heel and toe) do not always show the actual release values, and consumers do not really have a way to calibrate them other than "did you prematurely release" or "did you have a catastrophic lower leg injury."

 

[Jilly]

I was going to suggest nothing shorter than 145. Take a look through the Ski Reviews at the selection. And since you're in Maine...talk to Ski Essentials. I'm sure they will have the perfect ski for her.

 

[Mendieta]

She's 5'6 and 130. Length "calculators" put her appropriate ski length at 150-155, but I'm thinking that is for "skiing linked turns off of a lift serviced chair" beginner, not "just learning to turn" beginner. I'm thinking that something no shorter than 130 and no longer than 150 is probably right? And I'm thinking a lot of ski options - from materials to ski shape to camber - are probably less important than "just getting out there" ...but if I'm wrong, please tell me! I've been looking at used gear.

James, I think you might want to consider a season rental for the first 10-15 ski days, and buy after that. She will progress a lot in the next 10-15 days, so a good ski for today will not be good for ski days 10-50. In good places, they will allow you to switch skis as she progresses, and personally, I would have no problem with starting with very short, say to the top of the chest, and move her to longer skis as she starts picking up some speed and starts needing more stability.

For boots, I would go to a boot-fitter and get beginner boots - those are inexpensive. They will make a big difference. I know you bought some, but boots are the most critical piece, since they control the interaction with the skis. Light is not that important, tight, it is!

Finally, for the type of skis, I believe a beginner is much better off with narrow skis with a good sidecut, camber, and little rocker on either side. It is crucial to learn parallel clean turns early on, on groomers. After that the mountain opens up. But "easy to ski" fat skis are a massive deterrent for improvement early on.

HTH!

 

[Bad Bob]

First and foremost, welcome. Always glad to hear of people joining the tribe.
The issues the boot can create are often things you can't see and she can't feel. Most of us do not have a flat stance (we are a little bow legged or knock kneeed no insult just fact) a difference in leg length, and other things. A boot fitter can make learning or skiing at any level a much easier trail, and beginner boots don't have to be expensive. The boot is the suspension, brakes, and steering components; skis are your tires and will be changed as needed.

On skis; this is the season to buy. A lot of shops and ski areas are selling their rental fleets which is not a bad way to go. They are normally not beat up andoriginally chosen for ease of learning. Have them tuned or negotiate a tune into the price. They will ski much easier for her. This getting the tires balanced.
Maybe most important get your wife involved in the process. You are married, you know this already.
Enjoy the experience.

 

[Tony S]

Maybe most important get your wife involved in the process. You are married, you know this already.

+1

PS Hi James! Good to see you made it over here.

Pequenita's post below is a good answer to some of your questions about bindings. If you do work on your own, after a good shop has checked the calibration, make sure you get familiar with the idiosyncrasies of that particular model, such as toe height and forward pressure adjustments. It may take some digging to do that, since mfrs don't always love distributing tech manuals to the general public.

The bindings is mostly about liability. For someone who doesn't want to take them into the shop, the main thing is that the visual indicators (for heel and toe) do not always show the actual release values, and consumers do not really have a way to calibrate them other than "did you prematurely release" or "did you have a catastrophic lower leg injury."

 

[raytseng]

In general, read over the couple stickies again that are at the top of this forum

Boots-what is said is said, we all are going to pile on you for that.

On Skis, if you're looking at used demos, as we are entering spring. more stock will begin pop up soon. Wait about 1 more month, and post Easter everything will start dropping to their lowest sale prices, both new and used.

Beyond what was already said, I have 2 points:
First : If money is a factor, because they are demo skis and good skis, should you grow out of them, or not like them you should be able to resell them and get some of your money back. This can't be said for beginners skis or rental fleet, even new.
Second, for the new skier, because demos already got some wear and tear on them, there is less concern on the preciousness of something so brand new; this will help keep the focus just on the skiing rather than worrying putting dings or scratches into new skis.

On bindings,
The steps for binding setup is not that difficult, but as mentioned it is a safety feature so you need to take that into consideration. If you were to translate this to car mechanics it would only be a 1wrench out of 5 on the DIY difficulty level; as basic as an oil change or tire change. My 2cents though, if you are mechanically inclined, I do suggest you google and find the tech manual to follow the "official" instructions, not just youtube or second hand regurgitated DIYs. If you can't understand the tech manual, that is a sign you are not up for this job.
Of course, if you've purchased from a brick and mortar shop, or purchased new skis and bindings, just ask to have your shop adjust and set the bindings as part of your sale(bring your boots when picking up!)

 

[Vestirse]

When I was a beginner, I made the mistake of buying beginner skis that were too short about three ski days in cause I wanted my own equipment. They were around 140 and I'm 4 inches shorter than your wife. I sold them in a ski swap at the beginning of the following season, having already bought more appropriately sized used demos in the spring sale. My sister is a beginner learning this season on 154 season rentals - she's 5'4. At 5'6, I would actually not go under 150 for your wife, and certainly would not be looking to purchase anything if you did because she'll outgrow them - fast. I would also get her involved - but I'm not the first to tell you that!

As for boots - I only regretted buying ones at a "great discount just cause its last season!" from a boot seller instead of a qualified boot fitter. They were too big and hindered my progression because of the sloppy fit. Think about it this way - you control your skis with your boots and your boots with your feet. If the boots don't fit, your connection to your ski is compromised. Boots are much more important to the working equation IMO.

 

[Fuller]

TLDR: I'm in a weird position of being both an old-timer and a newbie....

Everything and nothing has changed. As a newbie you are definitely in the right place to become self educated on both equipment and technique. I've always found it useful to absorb a lot of opinions (we have some opinions around here) and eventually make sense out of what I read. Welcome.

The rare universal consensus is "boots first, and spare no expense in getting them right" Even then it may take a few times, but it's worth it.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

My first pair of boots by my fitter were too big, that was a terrible experience. After that I found myself a fitter that worked for me and sized down and was properly fitted. I'm 5"6" and my first pair of skis 11 years ago were 148cm. I skied those for a couple years until I moved up to my current size of 163. Having those shorter skis when I was first learning was so helpful. They were pretty soft too, plus pretty narrow. All helpful things.

 

[GB_Ski]

How many days is your wife going to ski and how interested is she in skiing? Be realistic here, I know husbands who got their wives top tier, burnt the wallet gear in golf, tennie, and skiing, and their wives don't even do any of that.

Let me put it this way,:

• < 5 days a season, just rent, she's not going to progress beyond pizza/parallel on the green/blue zone, buying anything makes no sense
• <15 days a season, get season rental, at least you get a boot fitting session and can exchange if things don't work out
• >20 a season, get her good boots, buy her lessons, as far as skis goes, whatever skis you buy, she'll outgrow by the end of the season.

If you must buy a pair of skis, i would say something that is of recent model (<3-4 years old) that are in good shape. Size between to her shoulder and her chin.

 

[charlier]

+1 for @Mendieta’s and @surfsnowgirl’s posts. I would arrange rentals, 75-80mm wide skis. If your wife is serious about skiing, find a good boot fitter, and avoid boot sales person. Snug fitting beginner boots with the proper last and flex will last your wife a few years+ for sure and it’s well worth the effort. I would avoid super short skis, e.g., 130cm.

If she decides to rent equipment, try to find a higher end demo center that might offer a better fitting boot and suggest an appropriate ski.

 

[skiki]

< 5 days a season, just rent, she's not going to progress beyond pizza/parallel on the green/blue zone, buying anything makes no sense

I would disagree with this. If she’ll never outgrow a beginner ski, buy a decent used pair. OP said they already bought boots. I’ve seen nice recent used beginner skis for around $150, i.e. the price of renting 3 times or a season rental. But then she’ll have predictable skis for several seasons. And if she does outgrow them, sell and move on.

 

[François Pugh]

Skis, you need to find a pair of skis that is flexible enough to encourage tipping and bending into a turn, but still stiff enough to be stable at a reasonable speed. i.e. maybe two steps down from FIS SL, like cheater SL that is softer than the others. Length between chin and top of head, Tip of nose is ideal. If on a budget, look for consignment sales at ski shops, or used. JUST MAKE SURE THE BINDING IS ON THE CURRENT INDEMNIFIED LIST. I adjust all my bindings, and those for my family, but I also started when a 4-setting non-DIN binding was the latest and greatest (Solomon 202?). It's not rocket science.

It's almost a right of passage to get comfy boots and then find they don't provide enough control and upgrade. 80 Flex sounds fine for her (it's an approximate number anyway).
You should have your own skis, just for the convenience.
Good luck.

 

[JamesB]

How many days is your wife going to ski and how interested is she in skiing? Be realistic here, I know husbands who got their wives top tier, burnt the wallet gear in golf, tennie, and skiing, and their wives don't even do any of that.

Let me put it this way,:

• < 5 days a season, just rent, she's not going to progress beyond pizza/parallel on the green/blue zone, buying anything makes no sense
• <15 days a season, get season rental, at least you get a boot fitting session and can exchange if things don't work out
• >20 a season, get her good boots, buy her lessons, as far as skis goes, whatever skis you buy, she'll outgrow by the end of the season.

If you must buy a pair of skis, i would say something that is of recent model (<3-4 years old) that are in good shape. Size between to her shoulder and her chin.

This is exactly what I'm getting at: At this point, I don't know how much she's going to want to, and how much she's going to like it. And I don't want to burn $$ for gear she's not going to use - it's a bad financial decision and she'd feel guilty about it. My thinking on buying v renting: She went once, liked it, went again, and I've already spent $110 on rental gear. My goals with "getting her her own (used) stuff" are:

• Skip the rental hassle. I think a lot of us forget how much of a pain renting is. It's 20-50 minutes at the beginning of the day and another 5-10 at the end; that part at the beginning is spent in a stuffy line/room, mostly waiting, while either overheating in your ski outfit or trying to carry all of it.
• Reduce cost. I'm in $100 for the boots; if I can do skis for $100-150, that pays for itself in 4 visits (and honestly, eliminating the rental hassle is a huge value in terms of "time you can spend on the snow" and "making the whole experience more fun") . And if she goes a couple more times this season and starts to grow her abilities, then maybe next fall, we shop for something better.
• Just having your own stuff. There's a motivating factor of "just having your own stuff". Even if the boots aren't perfect, then she'll know what she likes and doesn't like and will have a baseline for if and when we upgrade.

If and when she's at the point where she's regularly doing lift-serviced greens and getting into the blues, yes, 100% we'll look at proper boot-fitting and better gear. But I think - for now - "something that's her own and better than rental", while a low bar, is what I'm aiming for.

Thanks everyone for your replies, I'm learning a lot!

 

[JamesB]

I would disagree with this. If she’ll never outgrow a beginner ski, buy a decent used pair. OP said they already bought boots. I’ve seen nice recent used beginner skis for around $150, i.e. the price of renting 3 times or a season rental. But then she’ll have predictable skis for several seasons. And if she does outgrow them, sell and move on.

This! A couple of years ago, I pulled the trigger on my own gear- I realized that I was renting enough that it made sense, and having my own stuff would let me grow. A month ago I actually got a pro boot fitting and it made SUCH a difference ...
...but I don't think I would have noticed it two years ago when I was still uncovering some very old muscle memories. And with two years of my current boots under my belt, I knew what I liked and what I didn't like.

 

[GB_Ski]

I would disagree with this. If she’ll never outgrow a beginner ski, buy a decent used pair. OP said they already bought boots. I’ve seen nice recent used beginner skis for around $150, i.e. the price of renting 3 times or a season rental. But then she’ll have predictable skis for several seasons. And if she does outgrow them, sell and move on.

Unless you know what you are doing, you are not gonna get better than rental.

 

[JamesB]

Skis, you need to find a pair of skis that is flexible enough to encourage tipping and bending into a turn, but still stiff enough to be stable at a reasonable speed. i.e. maybe two steps down from FIS SL, like cheater SL that is softer than the others. Length between chin and top of head, Tip of nose is ideal. If on a budget, look for consignment sales at ski shops, or used. JUST MAKE SURE THE BINDING IS ON THE CURRENT INDEMNIFIED LIST. I adjust all my bindings, and those for my family, but I also started when a 4-setting non-DIN binding was the latest and greatest (Solomon 202?). It's not rocket science.

It's almost a right of passage to get comfy boots and then find they don't provide enough control and upgrade. 80 Flex sounds fine for her (it's an approximate number anyway).
You should have your own skis, just for the convenience.
Good luck.

oh man. You *nailed* that about the boots. Not gonna name and shame, but the place where I got my gear two years ago ... they did not do well on the boot choice. I'm 5'10 and 275. And while it's not 275lb of muscle, I'm pretty active for someone at that weight. Which means huge calves. The shop - which, to be fair, isn't just a ski shop - put me in a Nordica Sportmachine 100. When the top buckle was tight, the heel was loose - the boot just isn't made for the difference in size between my calves and my ankles. And 100 flex was insufficient for my size. Also - my first day out with them, I was in quite a bit of pain. Didn't realize that "packing in the liners" was a thing (gosh, maybe they could have mentioned that?). After that first day, I went through several iterations of "let's try ____" in attempts to make them fit. Ultimately put a homemade 1/2" thick piece of wood between my heel and the shell, and that helped *somewhat*.

But even so, when I finally went for a proper boot fitting, the first thing the guy pointed out was how the plastic distorted when I flexed forward. 100 flex for a big guy just isn't enough. I ended up in K2 BFC 130s and they're amazing.