New England 2024 New England, errrr, Canada Gathering trip report, eh?

[DebbieSue]

I think Entonnoir, and I'm disappointed to learn the name has nothing to do with Tolkein.

Not a Tolkien fan…so now I have to look up the reference. When I first saw the word I wondered if the “noir” was an allusion to the black (diamond) aspect, but no…

 

[DebbieSue]

Sorry we missed Orford, sounds like everyone had a good time exploring a new ski area. We made to Judy's brothers in Bethlehem NH on Sunday night with no problems-roads were clear. We chose mellow and inexpensive for Monday at Bretton Woods-after chasing the Ski Talk gang around for three days we needed to dial it down. Another nice sunny day with good coverage. The low angle tree runs were fun with with enough snow to cover most of the rocks and dirt. Snow wasn't quite as soft as Sutton on Sunday, but not bad. For you old people lift tickets are $42.00 during the week for 65+. Cannon today on what may be our last day of the season.

Judy at the bottom of one of the glades.
View attachment 231052

So glad you liked BW. Perhaps my endorsement was encouragement to check it out, not to mention the sticker price! I love it there when the glades are open. And the views of Mt Washington…wow! And no wind. Great fun skiing with you and Judy at NEG.

 

[KevinF]

Also, another big thanks to @KevinF who had my back on "the luge run" early in the day at Sutton. I've been studying the trail map trying to figure out which run that was, so I can remember to avoid it in the future. Could've been Boo-Boo; could've been Entonnoir (translates to funnel). Both would apply . . .

I think Entonnoir, and I'm disappointed to learn the name has nothing to do with Tolkein.

I'd agree with Erik's assessment of Entonnoir... I remember once we got out it was pretty open cruising which would seem to rule out Boo-Boo which appears to empty into another gladed run.

I saw this video:

Which looks like the right thing, although @DebbieSue 's and my experience involved being swarmed by half of Quebec.

 

[dbostedo]

so now I have to look up the reference

It's the "Ent" part of Entonnoir... An ent is a type of creature/person in Lord of the Rings.

 

[James]

Okay FINE you win.

It’s not winning when it’s obvious…
You’re the winner here.
If you just lump everything together into the spherical cow, nothing matters. Might be better for figuring out the expansion of the universe, but you still have to deal with small scale realities like the flopping, indecisive tips. Moguls limit the time scale on that.

Some skis mesh better with people than others.

 

[Tony S]

Would you guys say Sutton was the highlight this Gathering? Never skied it.

Similar question as above - did you think it worked well enough that you would take the NEG to the Eastern Townships areas again in a few years?

[Monday: Sitting at the bar at Mt.Orford, having lunch while @zircon , @mdf , and @James take a couple more runs.] My personal take follows.

Disclaimer: I had never been to any of these areas except Jay, so my spin on the Canadian hills is based on one day at each. Obviously that's not a good sample.

On a good day, like we had, Sutton is a winner. Skis much bigger than it looks. It's for natural snow and terrain lovers, and had an old school vibe. I don't have a sense of what it might be like on a "groomers only" type day, since basically nothing was groomed yesterday. So possibly a risky place to go if you're planning months ahead. The lift network was not exactly putting on a demonstration of throughput or reliability, unfortunately.This is the only one of the three Canadian areas I visited on this trip that would hold my interest for more than one day. Again, given good snow. It seems like it would be a good choice on a bad visibility day.

Mont Orford is a big rocky knob of a mountain. Not much of the off piste was open, due to lack of base. From afar, some of it looked quite gnarly. One of the four major sections of the area was closed for unknown reasons. The groomers were either flat or steep IMHO; there was a distinct lack of that bread-and-butter blue square pitch that I crave on groomer days. (Plus the snow was soft and chopped up enough that smooth carves were pretty much a non-starter on any but the green runs ... which were VERY green.) For whatever reasons, it didn't excite me and I would not rush to go back. However, the bar is quite nice.

[Tuesday: Picking up my half-finished post a day later. I see that several others have posted with very similar feedback to mine. I guess that's reassuring.]

Owl's Head, the day we were there, was a whole lot of dust on a whole lot of crust. I actually thought the conditions were quite challenging. Also, visibility was bad, in snow and fog. Stepping back, it appears to me to be a place that would be a delightful groomer cruiser of a mountain on a clear day with a view of Lake Memphremagog immediately below. In terms of size and variety it's not in the same league as Sutton and Orford, much less Jay.

Our day at Jay was arguably the best of the long weekend. Subjectively I loved Sutton, notwithstanding the crowd and the lift issues. But when trying to be objective about it, there's just a lot more there there at Jay than at any of the other three. With reasonably fresh snow it's got everything.

If I had to design another 3-day gathering in the region it would probably be Jay - Sutton - Jay. I do think it is riskier than some of the other locations we've been to, such as Killington, Stowe, SaddleLoaf, or the Mad River Valley. The reason is simply that there is not the amount of groomer terrain that can save the day if the snow gods have not been cooperating. Also, it's true that the Jay-Sutton combo is not particularly friendly to skiers who are enthusiastic but are nevertheless without the skills / confidence to just drop willy-nilly into whatever terrain happens to offer itself up. (We did a LOT of willy-nilly dropping on this trip!)

 

[Jilly]

I didn't find any ice at Owl's Head. I remember you mentioning it early in the day. But it snowed all day too. It is a much better place when the sun is shining. Also I find it a more family orientated place. Lots of groomers. Usually Colorado, Korman's Dive and Lakeview are full of bumps. There really isn't much in tree skiing there.

Sutton - it really shone on Sunday. Sutton is not a place for a groomer only skier. One of the reason why I said wait till Sunday after the snow fills up the glades.

I haven't been in that area in 20 years. The lodges have changed, maybe a few upgraded lifts, but the runs have remained the same. And the vibes remain the same. Both resorts have changed ownership since I was there.

After Sunday I would be happy if that was the end of my season. It definitely was a high note!!

 

[James]

The groomers [Mt Orford] were either flat or steep IMHO; there was a distinct lack of that bread-and-butter blue square pitch that I crave on groomer days.

^ Well we kind of found what he was looking for while he was in the bar. Not only that but we made two runs on the (we think) public race course that wasn’t a Nastar special but had some pitch and offset.

We generally agree though. I think there’s more there that you can amuse yourself on. There’s a lot of nooks and crannies. I mean had there been a base under the new snow, the skiable zones would’ve expanded enormously.

It’s also only 15 minutes from Magog, a town with twice the population of Rutland and where I stayed. I highly recommend the combo if you can deal with possibly parking a minute away.

It also has some of the steepest groomers in the East with a lot of good skiers. I would say it actually has some excellent green and light blue terrain also.

If it’s groomer conditions, head there over Sutton definitely. Owl’s Head maybe a toss up and would base on terrain likes and other factors.

I didn't find any ice at Owl's Head.

@mdf found ice on top of the asphalt road.

 

[zircon]

I didn't find any ice at Owl's Head. I remember you mentioning it early in the day.

I’d agree with this. Firm but edgeable base. I found more ice at Sutton (where I skidded out on the first run)

 

[zircon]

It’s not winning when it’s obvious…
You’re the winner here.
If you just lump everything together into the spherical cow, nothing matters. Might be better for figuring out the expansion of the universe, but you still have to deal with small scale realities like the flopping, indecisive tips. Moguls limit the time scale on that.

Some skis mesh better with people than others.

What’s annoying is I meshed really well with the navigators when demoing them. But that was a year before buying them and 2.5 years before actually getting my shit together to put bindings on them and a lot changes in that time

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Picturing a glade full of these guys. “That tree just jumped in front of me!”

 

[James]

What’s annoying is I meshed really well with the navigators when demoing them. But that was a year before buying them and 2.5 years before actually getting my shit together to put bindings on them and a lot changes in that time

You’re a lot better than you were 3 years ago.

I’d agree with this. Firm but edgeable base. I found more ice at Sutton (where I skidded out on the first run)

Y’all were skiing in an alternate universe. I’m calling a spherical cow on this one. Here’s the tip off - the sounds you hear coming while riding the lift.

 

[ScottB]

Would you guys say Sutton was the highlight this Gathering? Never skied it.

Similar question as above - did you think it worked well enough that you would take the NEG to the Eastern Townships areas again in a few years?

My wife and I skipped Jay for a relaxing drive on Friday. I love Jay and have skied it a lot and definitely missed a really good day on Friday. Jay is not friendly to my wife who is a lower intermediate skier. Her mountain on this trip was Mt Orford. I don't disagree with anything Tony said, but from a intermediate skiers POV, Orford is excellent. They have a lot of nice green and blues that are perfectly groomed and wide while still curving all over the mtn. Orford is exceptionally groomed everywhere and offers the most well rounded terrain for a group of varied ability. (sans trees, although they have some that look challenging and were not in play on Monday) The views from the two peaks were impressive as well. Base area is very good and easy to drive to. Lifts were pretty good as well, except for the one magic carpet gate that tried to bite @mdf's leg off and made him miss our chair.

To me, Sutton is like Jay with better groomers and wider spaced trees. Very little grooming and some really fun natural terrain. A local told us this was the best skiing of the year and the fresh snow brought out the crowds, not usually this crowed. I would love to ski Sutton again, although my wife would pass on this mtn due to limited terrain for her ability. They had a green run from a lower lift that started out narrow and flat (had to pole a ways) and then ducked into the woods and became a challenging nightmare for a "Green trail" skier. (water crossings, bare spots, steep bumped up sections with no grooming, ect....) I managed it fine but most of their blues were much easier to ski, luckily my wife passed on it based on some good advice from @skiki

Owls Head is smaller, nice relaxed vibe, and I think you ski there for the views. Our snow storm changed the character of the place the day we were there. 3" of light snow on frozen base (I would call it ice in some spots) and lots of hidden rocks. By the end of the day with more like 8" of snow, it got more fun but lower visibility. I did two core shots to my skis on sharp rocks, which is two more than I have done in decades. It was fun because of the snow, but the hidden rocks were a hazard.

Bromont is the other area and a local said it is very good, less vertical but more terrain. Worth a visit but the closest to Montreal so gets more crowds (weekday would be better).

Finally, if going back to the area, I highly recommend this hotel, we loved it and the prices (with Canadian exchange rate) were quite reasonable.

Estrimont​

1 800 567-7320
Phone : 819 843-1616
44, avenue de l’Auberge
Orford (Québec) J1X 6J3

I'm wondering if that contributed to the crowds you all ran into on Sunday? The snow and driving issues kept people at bay on Saturday, and everything exploded on Sunday?

A local we rode the lift with at Sutton said this was the first really good snow of the season and it gets warm soon so people were out for the last great ski day of the season, was her opinion.

 

[James]

Similar question as above - did you think it worked well enough that you would take the NEG to the Eastern Townships areas again in a few years?

Definitely. But staying widely separated doesn’t work if you want to get together at night. A 50 minute drive in dry weather becomes much longer in snow and not enjoyable.

As to Sunday, winter shows up for a nice day with sun and no wind and cold snow. Can’t beat that in the Northeast.

 

[KingGrump]

View attachment 231050

Awwww, puppy love.

 

[AlanR]

One comment on the lifts at Sutton. Although the lines looked horrible, once you were in them, they actually moved fairly quickly, for such a busy day. I timed it a couple times and both were in the 10-15 minute range, which was way less than I would have guessed when i arrived at the lift. I think it's a function of having two really long lines which merge, rather than than 8 to 4 to 2 to 1 line funnels that are common elsewhere, and look short, but move so slowly.

 

[zircon]

Y’all were skiing in an alternate universe. I’m calling a spherical cow on this one. Here’s the tip off - the sounds you hear coming while riding the lift.

Talk enough on the lift and you don’t hear the ice problem solved!

Although the lines looked horrible, once you were in them, they actually moved fairly quickly

^ with all the love in the world, real spherical cow here

You’re a lot better than you were 3 years ago.

Tragic that this translates to skis being harder to turn, not easier. How do I get the useful kind of better?

 

[KevinF]

Thanks everyone for contributing your thoughts of the various destinations this year! It's enlightening to read about various opinions on terrain, suitability for different skill levels, etc. This will be a good reference for future Gathering discussions.

 

[TheArchitect]

Okay FINE you win. @ilovepugs will attest that I’ve already started devising an elaborate scheme to play games with credit card statement close dates and shipping to family in New Hampshire (same length? I was wrong it does also come in a size shorter)

View attachment 231050

The pain of the purchase will be brief but the love everlasting.

 

[TheArchitect]

I was going to say slow engagement but my beloved FX85s have famously uninspiring hookup—but maybe more predictable when tossed.

You may be on the same path as I was. I skied nothing but Kastle for 10 years, including the FX94's, until I finally gave in to the suggestions to try Stockli. I bought 3 pairs in the span of one season and now only my MX74's occasionally see snow. @James has suggested I pick up an SL to help improve my skiing so next season that MX might end up in the corner with the other Kastles collecting dust.