0 base bevel for SL?

[Paul Lutes]

So ... the OP is asking if O degree base is ok, after already having skied 0 degree base???

I was going to ask if the OP had even been on 0.5, if so then maybe ease into it with a 2.5, but ... I feel mislead.

 

[Ogg]

Well the dude I saw with the bad hookup was a race coach at Wintergreen.. Looked to be a really good skier.. Watched the team train on a run under the lift for a couple hours while I was lapping Big Acorn there. The team had finished and the coach was making one last sweep of the run as they were about to open it. He was laying down really sweet railroad tracks then it happened. He was probably tired from standing there all day, hauling the gates, etc.. Pretty sure he could handle SL skis as well as most people here. Just a bad break... that would have been less likely with a less aggressive base bevel.

"Coach" doesn't necessarily translate to actual skiing ability, IME. My brother's mogul coach was amazing and has moved on to coaching for the USST but couldn't ski at the level of the athletes he coached even at a junior level and was quite aware of that fact.

 

[arficus]

So ... the OP is asking if O degree base is ok, after already having skied 0 degree base???

I was going to ask if the OP had even been on 0.5, if so then maybe ease into it with a 2.5, but ... I feel mislead.

I didn't ask "if O degree base is ok." I asked a specific question, about whether certain skiers use 0 under certain circumstances. This question had nothing necessarily to do with whether or not I'd ever skied 0 deg myself.

 

[arficus]

In the olden days -70’80’s when skis were straight , no one I can recall put a base bevel on. You could certainly hook up a ski -I did- but it was usually driver error or a concave bottom.

Or lack of detuning. IME, straight, stiff, long (200cm+) racing skis would hook up like crazy if they were sharpened full length. EVERY racer I knew detuned. The US ski team techs detuned.

 

[motogreg]

my local shop has sent the last 3 tunes I got there (because of needing a basegrind) out the door with 0 base bevel despite telling me it was a 1. Bet lots of other shops do, too. I know, good for me.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Read this thread!

Base Bevel History

When did the base bevel become de rigueur? Does anyone intentionally run flat?

www.skitalk.com

And there are others.

 

[Wilhelmson]

So what are most people here using on their slalom skis, .5 and if so have you tried less?

 

[arficus]

Read this thread!

Base Bevel History

When did the base bevel become de rigueur? Does anyone intentionally run flat?

www.skitalk.com

I started that thread (as well as this one). Near consensus in that thread was that 0 is always bad, and that upper echelon racers sometimes go as low as 0.5. I was still skeptical, so decided pose a more specific question in this racing section - where I received a radically different answer than in that first thread. Which is closer to truth I have no way of actually knowing, so caveat emptor.

 

[BLiP]

where I received a radically different answer than in that first thread.

I don’t think it was a radically different answer. What WC skiers are doing is irrelevant to 99.9% of the skiing population.

 

[arficus]

And... I think obsessing (including mine) over the nuances of gear is often misspent. Put a great skier on poorly tuned 1970s equipment they will easily smoke a mediocre skier on the best contemporary gear tuned by the world's finest. Moral: Ski more. I would be, but we still don't have any snow. I should be drylanding...

 

[arficus]

I don’t think it was a radically different answer. What WC skiers are doing is irrelevant to 99.9% of the skiing population.

IMHO 0.1% is a radically different answer than 0%. Especially when the 0.1% is done by superlatively talented people with clear intention.

 

[KingGrump]

I am my own service tech.
Any hookiness could probably be cured by gummi stone detune on the slope - a temporary fix.
I've certainly skied shaped skis set at 0.
I read somewhere here recently that entire rental fleets are sometimes set at 0, ie I think you guys are being overly dramatic re the consequences of no bevel.

Did you just mentioned rental fleets on a thread with discussion on FIS SL?

Are you serious or is this just another run on the keyboard?

 

[dan ross]

Or lack of detuning. IME, straight, stiff, long (200cm+) racing skis would hook up like crazy if they were sharpened full length. EVERY racer I knew detuned. The US ski team techs detuned.

Yes. They were detuned in that the tip and tail were dulled but that was standard practice for all skis then. I routinely used emery cloth to dull about 8-10 cm. from the tip and a little less off the tail on my VR 17’s and 710’s as well as my “ regular “ skis. The skiing equivalent of making sure your tire pressure is correct.

 

[arficus]

Did you just mentioned rental fleets on a thread with discussion on FIS SL?

Are you serious or is this just another run on the keyboard?

Just as serious as your ego soars.

 

[Primoz]

For SL skis, I would say 0 base is not really that big issue. I run them this way all the time and I don't really see any issues here. SL skis are not meant to be run in straight line, and that's where 0 base will make problems. If you run them like SL skis are meant to be used, that means from one edge to the other, not running them flat on base, then 0 base should be just fine. GS, SG and DH skis are different, and there, I would never run 0 base, but SL... no problem.

 

[markojp]

Lot's a hyperbole, chest beating, and rediculous gear comparisons going on here. Want a 0, ski a 0. Give it a whirl. Most likely we'll all live and stay out of the trees. The only assumption that's worth mentioning is that the boot set up is accurately aligned and well fitted.

 

[oldschoolskier]

On my old straight skis I skied 0 and never detuned, why because it really wasn't needed, the skis torsional (construction) had enough give to forgive.

On my current SL & GS I ski 0.5/4 as it gives just enough forgiveness to allow you to relax on your side to side edge control yet respond immediately.

@arficus if you want to ski less than 0.5 for the base the tolerance for errors in skill and technique diminish greatly. @Primoz states it best 0 on an SL is doable provided it is constantly carved, go straight you are just looking for a world of hurt. Even 0.5 is limited to a select few for the same reason.

So the short answer is yes, you can do it, the next question is why, conditions (ice) or racing? The final question is are you prepared for the effort and consequences.

Ultimately you will learn something, what will be interesting to see.

 

[Brian Finch]

I find 0.5 on SL skis out of the course (where I have been for the last 20 yrs) makes me feel like a return to center whiplashed punching dummy…. Just me.

I encourage 0.7 for SL carving bc it allows ya to get the feet away easier & get bigger angles.

When I am rehabbing folks, I like 1.0 bc it creates a generous sweet spot for erroneous technique.

 

[arficus]

On my old straight skis I skied 0 and never detuned, why because it really wasn't needed, the skis torsional (construction) had enough give to forgive.

Which skis in particular you're talking about? The torsional stiffness of skis varies greatly.

@arficus if you want to ski less than 0.5 for the base the tolerance for errors in skill and technique diminish greatly.

This thread was never about me wanting to do anything, it was about verifying my suspicion that many/most SL racers use 0 bevel (despite what I'd been told elsewhere).

 

[Noodler]

Thanks. I've been out-of-the-loop for quite some time, but when discussing bevel with folks around here (not in race section) there was near consensus that 0 bevel was never desired, so I'd guess the % of normal skiers who purposely choose 0 is close to 0. My spidey senses told me that 0 might not be so bad, especially on narrow skis, on ice.

No such thing as a modern "narrow" shaped ski. Even if it's narrow at the waist, it isn't at the tip and tail. There is nothing narrow like the old straight skis.

Seems to me that you keep fishing for using tuning to make up for some kind of lack of skill. Unless you're skiing perfectly prepared injected race courses, you would do best by abiding by the overwhelming guidance you have already received on this forum.