Zipperline Bump skiing,objectively why

[tball]

If the criteria is "one turn per bump" and you aren't too fussed on the exact style (rounded line, dolphin, WC wiggle) then we'd be pretty much in agreement.

Folks can ski bumps any way they want. I'm all for more skiers skiing bumps and you have to start somewhere, probably with a less direct line as I've been teaching our kids.

I love JB's bump skiing you posted. He's mostly in the zipperline with an occasional diversion, probably to switch lines or to add variety. Awesome stuff.

I also love the Kilington video @Paul Shifflet of all zipper line skiing, as that's what best fits the moguls. I guess what I am fussy about is the line chosen should fit the bumps, as it does there.

There isn't any smoother way to ski those spring bump lines at Killingon than the zipperline. Why would one take a different line, assuming they are capable of skiing a zipperline?

For those opposed to the zipperline, why is a top instructor (JB) spending the majority of his time skiing the zipperline in the video above?

 

[Paul Shifflet]

It seems to me that most zipper line skiers are indulging in some amount of skidding. Wasn't it pretty evident in the video you posted?

It only takes one to make my point.

 

[geepers]

Folks can ski bumps any way they want. I'm all for more skiers skiing bumps and you have to start somewhere, probably with a less direct line as I've been teaching our kids.

I love JB's bump skiing you posted. He's mostly in the zipperline with an occasional diversion, probably to switch lines or to add variety. Awesome stuff.

I also love the Kilington video @Paul Shifflet of all zipper line skiing, as that's what best fits the moguls. I guess what I am fussy about is the line chosen should fit the bumps, as it does there.

There isn't any smoother way to ski those spring bump lines at Killingon than the zipperline. Why would one take a different line, assuming they are capable of skiing a zipperline?

For those opposed to the zipperline, why is a top instructor (JB) spending the majority of his time skiing the zipperline in the video above?

My only issue was with the mogul mafia insisting that WC mogul technique was the be all and end all and everyone else is a somehow a lesser soul. JB is not using classic WC mogul technique.

 

[geepers]

It only takes one to make my point.

Perhaps you can specifically point out the vid time of this one skier who is going straight who isn't sliding, in slo mo or coming to a stop.

Where in Oz do you ski - NSW or Vic?

 

[tball]

My only issue was with the mogul mafia insisting that WC mogul technique was the be all and end all and everyone else is a somehow a lesser soul.

Similarly, my only issue is the anti-zipperline mafia insisting the technique has no useful purpose. It's extremely annoying coming from folks who can't ski the zipperline, so they don't speak from relevant experience and are just echoing the anti-zipperline propaganda they read on the bumps for bozos website.

I'd love to see video showing competent zipperline bump skiing from detractors. Got any?

JB is not using classic WC mogul technique.

How is his technique different?

 

[Seldomski]

How is his technique different?

If you go to :26 in the video, you will see him use other turn shapes. His body is not pointed down the fall line - you don't see WC mogul skiing that looks anything like that. He starts to arc larger turns that slide up onto adjacent bumps for speed control. He does select a variety of different turn shapes and tactics throughout. Sometimes his upper body is down the fall line, sometimes it follows the skis, depending on the turn shape.

I guess the more interesting question (to me) is why is he varying turn shape? Is it to show versatility for the camera (i.e. to show off)? Is it for his own enjoyment? Is it due to mogul shape? Snow conditions/rocks?

 

[Mike King]

You guys are on page 15 saying the SOS you said on page 1. Zipperline is not the only way to ski bumps, but if you really want to be an expert, where expert is defined by versatility, then you better be able to ski the zipperline. There, is that an objective reason? Let’s end this endless diatribe.

Mike

 

[tball]

If you go to :26 in the video, you will see him use other turn shapes. His body is not pointed down the fall line - you don't see WC mogul skiing that looks anything like that. He starts to arc larger turns that slide up onto adjacent bumps for speed control. He does select a variety of different turn shapes and tactics throughout. Sometimes his upper body is down the fall line, sometimes it follows the skis, depending on the turn shape.

No doubt he's using a number of other turn shapes, but the overwhelming majority of his bump skiing looks to be in the zipperline to my eye, as in this sequence starting at :58.

I guess the more interesting question (to me) is why is he varying turn shape? Is it to show versatility for the camera (i.e. to show off)? Is it for his own enjoyment? Is it due to mogul shape? Snow conditions/rocks?

It's an interesting question to me too. I think all of your answers are perfectly valid.

My observation going back to my early days at Mary Jane decades ago is bumpers almost always try to take the most direct line, or make it look like one exists where it doesn't. That's my preference when I'm in bumper mode. When I'm in endurance bump skiing mode I'll take whatever line I think is the easiest, smoothest and least effort path. Sometimes that's the zipperline, other times it's a rounder line, as you can see in the videos I've posted.

I've also observed through their videos that top instructors will often vary their turn shape and jump out of the zipperline a bit to demonstrate they can. I think that's what JB is doing at :26. That's also personal preference (and all good by my eye, as if anyone cares what I think). Someone correct me if I'm misinterpreting what I'm seeing.

 

[tball]

Zipperline is not the only way to ski bumps, but if you really want to be an expert, where expert is defined by versatility, then you better be able to ski the zipperline. There, is that an objective reason?

I like that.

@Josh Matta , Mr. OP, do you agree?

 

[Josh Matta]

Depends on how define zipperline, direct line sure, direct line done by sliding sideways into trough lines no.

 

[Paul Shifflet]

Depends on how define zipperline, direct line sure, direct line done by sliding sideways into trough lines no.

I think most people would agree with you. Tip following tail is one of the judging criteria for mogul competition. But, is this subjective or objective? IMO, in some conditions it's subjective. Skidding can have a huge component of skill involved. It can be done fast, graceful, and smooth. Everyone skids in tough moguls. The real question is how much turn shape, and what kind of turn shape. There's a huge spectrum that allows personal expression and makes skiing an art.

Carving and zipper line skiing have lots of similarities. They are both hard to do, take lots of skill, are admired, and provide fun sensations. They both are tools to get down the mountain, and they both have challenges when it comes to speed control. Some will judge skiing as no good if there isn't carving, and some will judge mogul skiing as no good if it's not in the zipper line. I believe there's a divide where people prioritize turn shape vs. zipper line skiing. Some say a particular turn shape defines great skiing, and they are willing to sacrifice the zipper line to get it. Others say the first priority is to ski in the zipper line, and then the second priority is to do it with the best turn shape possible. Once you leave the zipper line, the skiing is very easy. It still may be hard to do it with a particular turn shape, but that's subjective. Everyone is going to have a different opinion, and it's difficult to say if I've succeeded. Without a videographer and a panel of judges, it's hard to see how to progress as a sport when making turn shape the first priority. Basically, I've already succeeded. On most slopes that don't have cliffs or require a helicopter, I can make turns feeling balanced, in control, with a turn shape that I think is great without feeling challenged. Maybe someone else would say my turn shape is awful or my form is awful, but again without a panel of judges how do I decide to make changes or even define progression?

In the zipper line, I still haven't succeeded. I still can't quickly zipper line every slope while feeling balanced and not challenged. There's still something to work towards, and the progression is clear. So, people that prioritize the zipper line will show skidding in certain situations even when they desire to have a beautiful turn shape, and maybe they could miss a few turns to give a better turn shape, but that's not the point. Therefore, when you see some mogul skiers skidding, it may just be that they are working on a zipper line at the peak of their ability, and that's part of the progression to improve. As they get better with zipper line skills, they can work on better turn shape. So, I don't think you should be so prejudiced against any kind of mogul skiing really. It all has it's place, though it's ok to aspire to having a nice turn shape.

 

[geepers]

Similarly, my only issue is the anti-zipperline mafia insisting the technique has no useful purpose. It's extremely annoying coming from folks who can't ski the zipperline, so they don't speak from relevant experience and are just echoing the anti-zipperline propaganda they read on the bumps for bozos website.

I'd love to see video showing competent zipperline bump skiing from detractors. Got any?


How is his technique different?

View attachment 66734

Not the best camera angle but all I could prevail on my wife to film today - not her favorite activity.


How is JB's technique different in those bump sequences in his Fog Lit Street vid than WC moguls? All I can say is compare the two:

 

[Rod9301]

how does having your knees locked together cause better balance? in fact I am curious can each leg rotate independently from the pelvis with the knees locked together? Also I think you should go look and read this forum more. I posted the fast video because I generally post slow videos to show people how low impact off trail skiing can be.





it should be noted that the videos above are not "my" skiing, I change my skiing to suit what I am trying to show, I dont ski "one" way. I ski whatever way I want to show for the video, and when I am freeskiing I am much looser, and tend to actually not link fall line turns but find roundness, transitions and soft snow.

Again I have never gotten hate(or critiques) from people who have posted video of their skiing. Its pretty easy to get video, IMO anyone who doesnt post video but critiques others really can not ski themselves and a video would easily prove me wrong if I am wrong, but thus far very few people actually post anything at all. I would love to see how your knees together, pivot slam style is versatile all over the hill. I am all eyes. All you need is a camera and some time.

You can still skiswith your skis independently, even if your knees are really close together.

You still have most of the weight on the outside ski.

 

[crgildart]

Trolling bumpers on PubSki... Objectively why???

And how is it that that Nailbender troll hasn't found this thread?

 

[Doby Man]

When I learned to ski bumps, Levi button flies where in style. So, I ski the button fly line. Each turn I butt then fly.

While it may take a little longer than using the zipper line, you won’t get anything caught, edge or otherwise, in the button fly line.

 

[geepers]

When I learned to ski bumps, Levi button flies where in style. So, I ski the button fly line. Each turn I butt then fly.

While it may take a little longer than using the zipper line, you won’t get anything caught, edge or otherwise, in the button fly line.

And we're supposed to ski tomorrow and keep these images out of our minds??

It's going to need a tonne of that zen ski post by @Dan Egan

 

[Erik Timmerman]

While it may take a little longer than using the zipper line, you won’t get anything caught, edge or otherwise, in the button fly line.

 

[Paul Shifflet]

Not the best camera angle but all I could prevail on my wife to film today - not her favorite activity.

Do you want comments positive and negative? It would be educational to see if other people agree with me. If everyone saw things completely differently, then it could show that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Are you game?

 

[Mike King]

Shorter poles.

 

[geepers]

Do you want comments positive and negative? It would be educational to see if other people agree with me. If everyone saw things completely differently, then it could show that I have no idea what I'm talking about. Are you game?

Go for your life. Not ego attached to my skiing.