Utah Wassatch Peaks. Is this for real?

[4ster]

And local governments are not allowed to be "For Profit".

They spread the resource demand among all residents and commercial real estate normally on prorated basis relative to value and/or use

In the case of the Ogden Valley where I live (right next door to Morgan) the county which encompasses a much larger area spends the money elsewhere. We are the cash cow! This has forced us to consider incorporating which will undoubtedly increase taxes but at least we can invest in ourselves & encourage responsible development (which has been getting a bit out of hand lately).

Ogden Valley moves closer to being a city. Here are the next steps

A state-sanctioned report says Ogden Valley would be a financially viable city if voters approve incorporation.

www.upr.org

If they are on fixed income and can't afford their homes any longer, they still have choices like reverse mortgage or sell outright for what would likely be significant profit

The old timers in my neighborhood were forced out years ago. They did not want to leave! I probably will be too, eventually.

 

[Wasatchman]

@4ster and @AmyPJ

The property taxes are ultimately based on the city budget. If everyone's values went up but the city budget stayed the same there would be no change in property taxes.

What they do is they take the city budget and then calculate the property tax rate based on total valuation.

It's an absolute misconception that rising property values necessitate higher property taxes. Ultimately it's the city budge increase and then your value increase relative to the rest of the city that determines how much your property taxes rise.

If anybody gets priced out then that's the fault of the city for raising the budget well above inflation.

It seems to me Wasatch Peaks would significantly increase the tax base while at the same time not requiring too much extra in city resources. If that's the case then existing residents property taxes should actually decrease if the city manages things right. It's up to the residents to hold the city accountable and not let them get too carried away with the budget from the extra Wasatch Peaks tax base.

If the existing residents property taxes don't decrease by a meaningful amount following Wasatch Peaks development then they should be getting their pitchforks out and voting out the council. From a city financing perspective, it doesn't get much better than the Wasatch Peaks scenario.

 

[4ster]

^ This has not been the case for me. My property has been reassessed with a substantial increase in value both of the past two years. We appealed last year to no avail.

 

[Wasatchman]

^ This has not been the case for me. My property has been reassessed with a large increase in value both of the past two years.

Then either the city budget has dramatically increased or your value has significantly increased relative to the city average. Property taxes are based on a combination of your property value and the city budget. If the city budget stayed the same and everyone's assessed value doubled, then the property tax rate would be cut in half and everyone would pay the same dollar amount of property taxes.

 

[4ster]

County, not city…
…yet

 

[Wasatchman]

County, not city…
…yet

Same math applies for the county as well!

 

[4ster]

Then either the city budget has dramatically increased or your value has significantly increased relative to the city average. Property taxes are based on a combination of your property value and the city budget. If the city budget stayed the same and everyone's assessed value doubled, then the property tax rate would be cut in half and everyone would pay the same dollar amount of property taxes.

That makes sense and may be a good reason for us to incorporate.
Sorry to get off topic.

 

[Scruffy]

The more people and houses, the more public roads and services are needed, the more the tax base goes up. When the tax base goes up, the multiplier is your house value. Heaven help a rural area that becomes populated enough to require "social services", then you'll see taxes sky rocket. I've been on both sides of gentrification, as one who was gentrified and as one who was a gentrifier; it never is pretty, or fair, for everyone. Your home value going up only helps you if you plan on selling out someday. Those that want to stay put for life, and also want to have their kin folk live in the area, and are of working class, are usually screwed.

Now having said that. If the new wealthy residents of Wassatch Peaks don't require anything from the town of Peterson; no restaurants, no stores, no new public roads or road improvements, schools or services. If WP has private roads and are maintained by the home owners assoc. etc... but the town collects taxes from the new WP owners, then maybe the town can stay the same, except with the eye sore of having a wealthy playground in their back yard that they can't access. But that probably won't happen.

 

[Wasatchman]

Now having said that. If the new wealthy residents of Wassatch Peaks don't require anything from the town of Peterson; no restaurants, no stores, no new public roads or road improvements, schools or services. If WP has private roads and are maintained by the home owners assoc. etc... but the town collects taxes from the new WP owners, then maybe the town can stay the same, except with the eye sore of having a wealthy playground in their back yard that they can't access. But that probably won't happen.

Wasatch Peaks is the best shot those guys have to try and maintain what they currently have. By a considerable margin.

All you have to do is look at what has happened to Park City in the last 20 years to see that the alternative sure ain't pretty.

 

[4ster]

All you have to do is look at what has happened to Park City in the last 20 years to see that the alternative sure ain't pretty.

Which is what we are afraid of in my little valley (John is the developer but really it is the county who is approving changes to our master plan)…

 

[AmyPJ]

Well, based on the astronomical tax increases in Morgan County, the county commission hasn't done a very good job of managing the budget. It doesn't help that there is very little commercial tax base.

 

[HardDaysNight]

All you have to do is look at what has happened to Park City in the last 20 years to see that the alternative sure ain't pretty.

There’s no f*ing doubt about that!

 

[noobski]

It doesn't help that there is very little commercial tax base.

This is a very important and good point. Definitely if there is no commercial tax base then the remaining owners, generally residential, pay a large share. That said, historically if residential is the driver of valuation (i.e. high value homes) then the existing homeowners still benefit from net wealth creation.

The problem with all of this for existing owners, especially emotionally and for those on fixed income is that the home is not often thought of as a use asset for consumption/retirement rather it's "our home." and so it's really hard to segment that economic benefit if - all else equal - you'd never have left the house for another one somewhere else. It's definitely difficult. I totally get it. I spent years fighting a negative/eminent domain "public good" issue on my property and we almost lost our home and would definitely not have received fair market value in the process. It was a very difficult time for us. We won because my position offered a well thought out economically sensible and environmentally better alternative solution, but it was not at all easy and it was not cheap and it dominated all my free time. If given a choice, in hindsight, I would have welcomed a "positive" encroachment - like a subdivision or private resort - but that's because I've lived through the dark side and know what negative encroachment issues can do.

Unfortunately things change and encroachment arrives. It's everywhere. There's no ideal permanent world for those existing in desirable rural parts of the US. And for those selling the land, often that's all they have to retire on themselves, so it's just unfortunately inevitable that some of us will face this. The best I can say based on a lifetime of experience living rural is if you live rural, simply assume there's a possibility it will come and then hope it's positive and not negative. If you think something is coming, move out in advance if you're okay losing the valuation appreciation. Move out in advance for sure if it's negative and you don't think you have one or can't afford a fight. You can often find out what the trends will be via county land use plans that are generally developed 10-20 years in advance or talking with municipality attorneys about their plans.

I would still take rural over urban living though. There's problems almost everywhere. Life is often trading one problem for another problem and so you just have to figure out what problems you're okay solving while trying to avoid the ones you don't want to deal with.

 

[Wasatchman]

Good points @noobski

Which is why I think Wasatch Peaks is by far the best possible outcome to try and maintain as much of the rural flavor of the area as possible while yielding the best economic benefits to the existing residents of the county. Other than of course limiting the zoning and building permits to maintain the current rural flavor which is never going to happen. If I were a Morgan County resident I'd be loving Wasatch Peaks even if I couldn't afford to ever step on the premises.

 

[noobski]

Good points @noobski

Which is why I think Wasatch Peaks is by far the best possible outcome to try and maintain as much of the rural flavor of the area as possible while yielding the best economic benefits to the existing residents of the county. Other than of course limiting the zoning and building permits to maintain the current rural flavor which is never going to happen. If I were a Morgan County resident I'd be loving Wasatch Peaks even if I couldn't afford to ever step on the premises.

Agreed. It's a relatively "good problem" to have if the problem is unavoidable either way.

 

[raisingarizona]

The residents who live below the resort are really having issues with avy control blasting. The little town of Peterson is literally right there, with a lot of homes that have been there for generations snugged up against the property boundary. I think that is an issue the county commissioners did not consider (among a lot of other things.) The whole thing has added to the prices of homes skyrocketing in Morgan County.

Issues or they just don't like hearing booms in the morning? If you like sleeping in that's fair I guess.

 

[AmyPJ]

Issues or they just don't like hearing booms in the morning? If you like sleeping in that's fair I guess.

It rattles their walls, it is startling and disturbing. The resort is really close to some existing homes, and yes, it starts at 0'dark thirty.

 

[raisingarizona]

It rattles their walls, it is startling and disturbing. The resort is really close to some existing homes, and yes, it starts at 0'dark thirty.

Yeah, I could see that could suck especially if aren't a skier or get to ski the place making a racket!

 

[4ster]

Yeah, I could see that could suck especially if aren't a skier or get to ski the place making a racket!

My buddy who lives in Morgan is mostly bummed cuz he doesn't get to ski there after spending years covertly touring the terrain. He tried to get on patrol last year but they were not too responsive so he didn't pursue it. FOMO!
Another friend who I skied with yesterday is friends with a member & has been as a guest a few times & says the place is the real deal! Not sure how friends of friends of friends might work out but...

 

[raisingarizona]

My buddy who lives in Morgan is mostly bummed cuz he doesn't get to ski there after spending years covertly touring the terrain. He tried to get on patrol last year but they were not too responsive so he didn't pursue it. FOMO!
Another friend who I skied with yesterday is friends with a member & has been as a guest a few times & says the place is the real deal! Not sure how friends of friends of friends might work out but...

The terrain looks incredible.