Upper body armor for slalom racing: Dainese or POC gear?

[breck]

'Spect!
Probably twice as fast as me, if I could even get up the courage. That's a lot of torque on your lower spine.

Thanks and depending on your accumulated injuries telemark is very easy on your body--I don't notice any torque on my spine or really anywhere else. Tele is much gentler than the hammering that can happen in fixed heel gear but it is more tiring because one is using muscle (quads, core) to support weight more of the time than the skeleton. I'd say I am working 2x as hard on groomers, 1.2x as hard on bumps--oddly on a race course I think it is about the same.

I often do alpine turns in training and when trying to recover my mojo in places like bumps and I can catch a turn that judders through my entire frame like it wants to knock out my fillings--that just doesn't happen in tele. When edging hard the muscles act as a shock absorber and the shocks are distributed across the forward/backward step of the turn so no one bit of cartilage/bone gets repetitively stressed differentially than other parts it seems.

If your body is objecting to fixed heel skiing you might want to give tele a chance, depending on injuries it may be an extender. Takes about 1-2 years to ski tele as well as you do alpine with a bit of coaching. Plus you will be in way better shape.

 

[breck]

An entire speed suit offering upper and lower protection, and that is currently on sale, appears cheaper than just the upper jackets....

The lodge would pity-fund me into getting alternate gear if I was marching around in a speed suit all the time. Seriously there would be a contribution jar at the end of the locker room "Buy Breck some POC armor so we don't have to look at him nearly nekkid every day."

I'll leave the daily speed suit wearing to the young and fit.

 

[HardDaysNight]

I’ve used the POC VPD 2.0 since 2012. Decision was catalyzed by a gaper running into me on a trail closed for race training resulting in a serious shoulder injury. I am never on snow, even free skiing, without it, and don’t even notice I’m wearing it it’s so comfortable. Of course I ski at PCMR where gapers abound so this precaution might not be necessary at a less crazed area!

 

[DocGKR]

Lots of us folks in our gray hair years wear speed suits:

 

[breck]

Lots of us folks in our gray hair years wear speed suits:

That was awesome. But still not speed suit for me, next year.....promise.

 

[DocGKR]

OK, but just think of them as long johns with padding!

 

[Paul Lutes]

Thanks and depending on your accumulated injuries telemark is very easy on your body--I don't notice any torque on my spine or really anywhere else. Tele is much gentler than the hammering that can happen in fixed heel gear but it is more tiring because one is using muscle (quads, core) to support weight more of the time than the skeleton. I'd say I am working 2x as hard on groomers, 1.2x as hard on bumps--oddly on a race course I think it is about the same.

I often do alpine turns in training and when trying to recover my mojo in places like bumps and I can catch a turn that judders through my entire frame like it wants to knock out my fillings--that just doesn't happen in tele. When edging hard the muscles act as a shock absorber and the shocks are distributed across the forward/backward step of the turn so no one bit of cartilage/bone gets repetitively stressed differentially than other parts it seems.

If your body is objecting to fixed heel skiing you might want to give tele a chance, depending on injuries it may be an extender. Takes about 1-2 years to ski tele as well as you do alpine with a bit of coaching. Plus you will be in way better shape.

Preachin' ..... haven't fixed heeled in over 30 years. Knees are in excellent shape, considering, back has suffered from genetics and squash. It's true - tele/free heel seems to have more moving parts to absorb the unexpected. These days, a hard charging 2-3 hours on the groomers is a good day

 

[Paul Lutes]

Lots of us folks in our gray hair years wear speed suits:

That was .... uplifting!

 

[ScotsSkier]

dont think about the speed suit in terms of saving tenths of seconds for slalom. Think about it more as a better way of getting maximum flexibility and movement without the hindrance of bulky coats or pants. I would have thought this would be particularly beneficial for a free heel guy.?

 

[breck]

dont think about the speed suit in terms of saving tenths of seconds for slalom. Think about it more as a better way of getting maximum flexibility and movement without the hindrance of bulky coats or pants. I would have thought this would be particularly beneficial for a free heel guy.?

Good point. I already ski in old-school knickers (pants that stop at the top of the boot, and are low waisted) for that reason. I am worried that all the body armor will impact flexibility too.

Also, I want daily driver protection and it is way too much hassle to make a speed suit a layer every time I go out.

Next year will be my optimize for speed year I hope, then I'll think about a speed suit but it will have to be cut resistant.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Wait ...... Knickers?!? I mean, I wear 3/4 tights (Capris!), but .......

 

[breck]

Wait ...... Knickers?!? I mean, I wear 3/4 tights (Capris!), but .......

Yes, panties , now all my credibility around my telemarker's reserve is gone.

For those not in the know:

Men's Fernos Insulated Knicker

Tired of cold cheeks on the chair? This articulated, cropped-length midlayer hits right above ski boots and has PeakFill™ Active Insulation 40g that adds warmth yet allows airflow.

www.stio.com

 

[Paul Lutes]

I have something very similar from Marmot, worn as a mid layer over my tights and under my shell.
Telemarking & credibility; not commonly associated

 

[breck]

Telemarking & credibility; not commonly associated

Touche' and there is a frigging tele emoji???

 

[breck]

Update on what I got and my first reactions.

I ordered the POC matching underoos:

Spine VPD 2.0 Jacket

The Spine VPD 2.0 Jacket gives full back, chest, shoulder and elbow protection with great flexibility and freedom of movement. Product Highlights Complete upper body protection Exceptional impact absorption Height adjustable waistband Product Description The Spine VPD 2.0 Jacket gives full back...

na.pocsports.com

https://na.pocsports.com/products/hip-vpd-2-0-shorts?variant=35505845633190

TL;DR Expensive, non-bulky, non-restricting, unattractive, flimsy seeming but in the end very effective most likely but zero fun. More condom than sex toy.

This gear is expensive, $350, and $120 respectively. I jingled around on the POC website and signed up for the newsletter and got 10% off with free shipping.

The build is nice but it felt like heavy stiff foam, effectively placed but really seems lingerie-class wrapping in spandexy thin stretchy mesh.

I geared up and went for a mountain bike ride just to see how all this felt.

Layers were inside to outside: skin, light polypro, POC armor underoos, the usual outer layer of shorts, and heavy poly-pro outer top.

• The upper fit was very close to my body. My usual, already pretty snug gear, fit over the armor top without issue. I was surprised that I wasn't more bulked up and the polypro top and my ski jacket still fit over the armor.
• The bottoms throw out a lot of hip, rendering my svelte hips much less attractive. I don't think I could fit my street jeans over them. I ski in knickers so I don't think it will be an issue for my use case.
• Overall the armor 'rectangles' your body like an aged quarterback's padding in the NFL. It is a blocky, purposeful look for the fashion sensitive out there.
• The padding is a few pounds of quite dense foam. Stiff plastic would be lighter.
• The armor was not very obtrusive or noticeable riding around unless I thought about it.
• I believe that if I took a hit the pads would be where they needed to be despite my concerns about the flimsy positioning from lingerie wrapper--the outer layers of polypro/clothes help with the positioning. This is in contrast to how the Dainese jacket from my initial post (https://www.dainese.com/us/en/bike/...689_color=BLACK&cgid=bike-safety-back#start=1) looks which seems like it could be an outer layer because it has so much structure. This is underwear to be sure.
• The chest/back pads of the top can be removed, as can the butt pad. Hip pads, shoulder, and elbow pads are sewn in.
• Instructions are hand-wash only in cold water. This is all going to stink is my guess. We will see if they made any efforts to fight off the bugs that produce the stink via the inclusion of silver or the like. I'd have preferred all pads to be removable and the enclosing lingerie to be machine washable separately.
• I don't think the armor will interfere with upper body/lower body separation.
• Other than the weight, I don't think this will be an issue in slalom racing or any other downhill skiing activity.

Overall this has the feel of an appropriately engineered solution to the problem at hand as delivered by a bunch of up-tight swedes. Because of the lack of structure/shell I don't think this is a candidate for multiple hits in a fall but entirely appropriate for the first hit which is going to be 95% of the times it will be needed. It is a hassle to use but as hassles go it is minimal and the benefits are huge--yes, like condoms.

 

[ScotsSkier]

@breck ….or you could just skip all these extra stiff layers and wear a padded gs/ slalom suit which would provide protection in the correct places with a lot less bulk or restriction….

 

[breck]

@breck ….or you could just skip all these extra stiff layers and wear a padded gs/ slalom suit which would provide protection in the correct places with a lot less bulk or restriction….

The issue really is no spine, no elbows, no hips and the padding is oriented towards gate collisions, not out-of-control other folks or my wipeouts. The POC suit actually mentions versions of the above armor under it: https://na.pocsports.com/collection...gs?variant=43320196006054#product-description.

But maybe there are more substantial suits.

 

[DocGKR]

I usually add a back protector under a speed suit--some back protectors also have a tail bone extension; the speed suits typically have enough hip and elbow protection built in for my needs.

 

[cantunamunch]

The issue really is no spine, no elbows, no hips and the padding is oriented towards gate collisions, not out-of-control other folks or my wipeouts.

...

But maybe there are more substantial suits.

Did anyone else just have a picture of a bearded, sunglassed telemarker swooping out of the woods...in full on hockey/moto gear?

Sorry @breck , that's just the image I'm getting.

 

[ScotsSkier]

The issue really is no spine, no elbows, no hips and the padding is oriented towards gate collisions, not out-of-control other folks or my wipeouts. The POC suit actually mentions versions of the above armor under it: https://na.pocsports.com/collection...gs?variant=43320196006054#product-description.

But maybe there are more substantial suits.

Breck, for slalom most of us want the maximum freedom of movement and mobility as possible. While wear a spine/back protector for speed and sometimes for GS, for slalom only want the padding in places where i can get gate hits. In fact for slalom I usually wear a suit that has had a bit of use since they stretch slightly after several uses.