Tips for dense snow

[Kneale Brownson]

Those crafty Norwegians figured out how to make wax out of cow poop. No wonder the president wants more of them to move here.

Can you cite a source for the information about manure wax?

 

[Fuller]

OP here with a follow up report for @LiquidFeet and others who care about the plight of Floridians flailing about in the crud...

Today was very similar to my "problem" day, lots of new snow, not quite as dense as the previous storm so a bit easier. The temperature dropped 12 degrees in an hour and it snowed lightly most of the day. No complaints at all but there were areas of chopped up snow piles that needed to be dealt with so instead of avoiding them I sought them out. Here's what seemed to work for me:

Keeping the skis on edge. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that slicing through a pile is a lot less disruptive than whacking it with the flat of your ski.

So that lead me to turn shape and edge angles... I tried more of an arc to arc approach with the little toe edge of the new inside ski starting the turn (thank you Harold) and pulling the inside foot back to reduce tip lead.

All of this would fall apart if I didn't make a conscious effort to keep my damn feet together. My goal is to be able to do that on any pitch and in any snow condition. It does not come naturally to me. It should, I don't know why it's such a problem but it affects everything else I try to do. But I could put together some partial runs where it was the One Thing I thought about. The other things more or less happened without a lot of effort - success!

I do have a specific question though. How do you keep your inside hip from dropping back when you are trying to pull the foot that it's attached to back as well? I know I'm not maintaining enough separation, my inside hand and shoulder are rotating with the turn (leftover beginner turn mechanism). Shoving my hands forward which feels a bit unnatural doesn't seem to cure it, though it does help. I think I'm built funny...

 

[Josh Matta]

if you want your hip countered then just move them that way....

In longer turns in dense snow I prefer to let my hips follow a decent bit. The never lead just follow.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Think about advancing your inside hip through the turn while flexing the inside ankle. If you flex the ankle, you don't need an effort to actually pull that foot back.

Think about pressure on the outside corner of the inside boot cuff.

Thrusting your hands ahead may result in thrusting your backside back. Not a good idea. Your hands generally should just be visible in the lower periphery of vision.

 

[Smiles]

So my day was less than ideal, with a lot of instances of ending up way in the back seat because I felt like I was about to go over the handle bars. Going from the packed down areas to the occasional virgin snow really unnerved me and put me on defense. I felt like i was standing on the hood of a car with a 10 year old behind the wheel.

It is challenging to give advice when we can't see someone ski. So, let me stick to some basic thoughts, particularly for the first day you described, where it sounds like your upper body was moving back and forth over your feet.

You say you are being defensive, so maybe keep in mind that sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

Ski strong. In cruddy, gloppy snow, the forces that act on us generally vary more dramatically and quickly than when skiing on a more consistent snow surface. Having a strong core that can help brace when the forces change quickly can be really helpful. Having already engaged the core, the muscles can be more helpful in keeping a strong position. A good strategy for that strong core is to give a little cough before we start to move. That helps to tighten up some really helpful core muscles. This could even be one of the times where a bit more tension through the upper body and into the arms is mentally helpful. Use all of that to drive through the turns -- which is the the next point.

Focus on skiing with power in the lower body. I'll give two alternatives to focus on this, that are a bit different, but are related in one concept -- in these conditions, with bigger turns, while we are constantly moving from edge to edge, and want early transitions, we probably want to focus on edges more as the beginning of a new turn and into the fall line, rather than finding ourselves stuck on edges at the end of the turn. One way to accomplish this is to focus on driving the cuffs of your boots, both boots, through the turns. Move from one corner of the cuffs, around the front of the boot to the other corner. There are a bunch of different things one can do to tip the skis, and moving through the cuffs is one of them that I find can he helpful when the desired result is a powerful move, as opposed to maximizing edge angle throughout the turn. (Yes, I know others use it for tipping and edge engagement in general, but different things work for different people.) Another focus on a powerful lower body would be to focus on turning both feet together; turning the inside food together with the outside foot.

I like to combine the two focuses above -- a strong core and a powerful lower body -- into one feeling and mental image of a truck powering through, but there are other mental images that work for other people. I want to be clear, this isn't brute strength and foce, but functional tension and power. We aren't locking the body together into a rigid state, and the lower body still needs to be able to absorb.

A couple of other assorted notes. In these bigger turns in gloppier stuff, even without being able to see you ski, I wouldn't worry so much about countering. Yes, we should ski into some counter, but you may be able let it be the functional result and not the focus here. Rather, it may make more sense for you to focus on turning from the feet and let any counter happen. In any event, in a bigger turn in these conditions, it is more likely that we are closer to following the path of the skis with our mid and upper body. (At the risk of repeating myself, I can't see how you are skiing, so this may not apply.) As for pulling your foot back, definitely go ahead and pull your foot back so that you have good cuff engagement, but I generally find that isn't a dramatic enough focus in the circumstances that you are describing. .

And, smile! It helps.

Best,
Smiles

 

[Jamt]

You can make really short turns in powder if you really pull the feet back to pressure the ski tips And really too the skis to get high edge angle. No need to bounce up and down.

Do you have a video of great heavy powder skiing without any bouncing up and down?

One of the most important aspects in tricky snow is to never be static. Bouncing is a great way of avoiding that. Even Harb does and suggests that in some of his demos.
Primarily to get things started of course. When you have a nice rhythm going the skis will take care of the bouncing for you.

Also, since the op had fore-aft problems. Its pretty hard to bounce from the back seat. You can also turn the bouncing into a more dolphin turn type to practice the fore aft.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....All of this would fall apart if I didn't make a conscious effort to keep my damn feet together. My goal is to be able to do that on any pitch and in any snow condition. It does not come naturally to me. It should, I don't know why it's such a problem but it affects everything else I try to do. But I could put together some partial runs where it was the One Thing I thought about. The other things more or less happened without a lot of effort - success!

What you say above is golden. If you focus on one thing for a whole run and the "other things" happen without conscious effort, that's excellent. It means those other things are embedded; they can be accessed by your unconscious mind/body and be used at the speed they are needed. You are now unconsciously competent at those "other things." Congratulations!

Now for that issue of dropping/rotating the inside half...

....
I do have a specific question though. How do you keep your inside hip from dropping back when you are trying to pull the foot that it's attached to back as well? I know I'm not maintaining enough separation, my inside hand and shoulder are rotating with the turn (leftover beginner turn mechanism). Shoving my hands forward which feels a bit unnatural doesn't seem to cure it, though it does help. I think I'm built funny...

No, you're probably not built funny. Separation is difficult for many skiers. There are numerous things you can do, drills and such, that can help you embed the inside half moving forward and the inside hip/shoulder/elbow staying high (rather than dropping) through the turn.

One (it might work, it might not) involves moving/pulling the new outside hip back as you pull the new inside foot back. If you can get your body to do this, it negates the inside hip wanting to rotate as you pull the foot below it back.

Or think of your upper body as a rhombus. Be the rhombus.
Let the feet do their thing unconsciously.

If you try to focus on keeping your feet together and pulling the new outside hip back, things may fall apart because doing two new things at once usually doesn't work. But you could alternate; two turns with feet together, two turns with hip pull-back, two turns with feet together, two turns with hip pull-back ....

I envy you your vacation at Whitefish. I've always wanted to ski there.

 

[Core2]

My best tip for dense snow is buy some Nordica Enforcer 100s and not have to worry about it.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Can you cite a source for the information about manure wax?

I can say that my wife's best friend's sister's husband is in the Norwegian frozen seafood industry but I can't reveal any more information than that. It's pretty interesting what this guy knows about fish and fishing.

 

[HardDaysNight]

Think about advancing your inside hip through the turn while flexing the inside ankle. If you flex the ankle, you don't need an effort to actually pull that foot back.

Think about pressure on the outside corner of the inside boot cuff.

Thrusting your hands ahead may result in thrusting your backside back. Not a good idea. Your hands generally should just be visible in the lower periphery of vision.

Listen to this man, he knows what he’s talking about. If you do need to pull the foot back, remember it’s the foot, not the whole leg. You do it by using the hamstring muscle, not the buttock.

 

[Fuller]

Good advice @Kneale Brownson @HardDaysNight I think I'm getting it. I'm able to apply the fundamentals in less forgiving conditions as I progress. But I'm still jealous of the teenagers who blast down the bombed out pitches in foggy flat light, drinking a Red Bull. I hope they all have acne and can't talk to girls.

If the sun ever shines for long enough here I'll get Sibhusky to take some video that hopefully I can release to the general public. Then I'll have to submit myself for MA - I have some from last year but I can barely watch them myself, too painful and demoralizing. Better this year I hope.

 

[François Pugh]

Just pull that foot behind the hip. Pulling foot behind hip is the same as pulling hip in front of foot.

 

[James]

Those crafty Norwegians figured out how to make wax out of cow poop. No wonder the president wants more of them to move here.

Norwegians eventually, after 15-20 years of lobbying, got the Japanese to use Norwegian Salmon for sushi. They had considered it gross to eat raw Salmon because of parasites in Pacific Salmon. It was only eaten cooked. The time period seems to be 1974 to widespread adoption of raw salmon in 1995.

http://www.norwayexports.no/sectors/articles/norways-introduction-of-salmon-sushi-to-japan/

https://www.npr.org/2015/09/18/4415...wegian-salmon-industry-created-a-sushi-staple

 

[Sibhusky]

If the sun ever shines for long enough here I'll get Sibhusky to take some video that hopefully I can release to the general public. Then I'll have to submit myself for MA - I have some from last year but I can barely watch them myself, too painful and demoralizing. Better this year I hope.

Maybe you should also show the earlier years so they can see how much you've improved.

Looks like I should have gone today. You had visibility!

 

[Fuller]

Well, we had a lot more light and you could see all the way to Kalispell but the cloud deck flattened the light so you really couldn't see the snow surface at all. I ate it at a high rate of speed on Hellfire first thing this morning. There was about 2-3 inches of fresh on an almost perfectly groomed base. So soft and silent, one set of tracks before me, I felt like I was in a big Mercedes blasting down the Autobahn until I hit the "grooming anomaly" lurking below. I really couldn't see any texture but it was so smooth and I've done that trail so many times I really opened up the throttle. Left ski ejected and I slid about 50 ft. No harm, no foul just a bit shook up. It rattled the rest of my day a bit, thinking about how frickin' lucky I am.

Tomorrow may be a good day to work on some drills...

 

[Monique]

Well, we had a lot more light and you could see all the way to Kalispell but the cloud deck flattened the light so you really couldn't see the snow surface at all. I ate it at a high rate of speed on Hellfire first thing this morning. There was about 2-3 inches of fresh on an almost perfectly groomed base. So soft and silent, one set of tracks before me, I felt like I was in a big Mercedes blasting down the Autobahn until I hit the "grooming anomaly" lurking below. I really couldn't see any texture but it was so smooth and I've done that trail so many times I really opened up the throttle. Left ski ejected and I slid about 50 ft. No harm, no foul just a bit shook up. It rattled the rest of my day a bit, thinking about how frickin' lucky I am.

Tomorrow may be a good day to work on some drills...

Yikes!

 

[epicentre]

Nothing like a full blown drill day to reset the gauges.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

That's why I rarely feel the need for speed, Fuller. BTDT too many times.

 

[Sibhusky]

Fuller, you know my mantra: "Do you want to hit a tree at this speed? Then slow down!" Hopefully this wasn't in that section below Grand Junction! There's always stuff lurking there!