Thoughts on the Fischer Vacuum Boots?

[azaslavsky]

So, due to my carelessness and some people being real assholes, my bootbag got stolen a couple months ago, ski boots included. This means I'm on the market for new ski boots. The process of getting my ski boots dialed in has been a nightmare for both of the last two pairs that I've owned. It took me about 20 shop visits to get my Technica Ten.2's dialed in, and I'd really like to avoid that hassle this time around. And yes, I did go to (several) very well-respected boot-fitters in the Norcal and Tahoe area, but it mostly came down to me doing my own tinkering before I got them to feel okay.

So, with that in mind, I've been looking at the Fischer Vacuum boots. The general consensus on these seems to be that the fit is amazing, but that they:

a) leave feet feeling very cold
b) have a garbage stock liner
c) are very soft (even the 140's have a lot of give based on what I've read)
d) are prone to cracking and generally wear down very quickly (this one worries me the most)

Does anyone (especially long time owners of these boots) have any guidance in regards to these concerns?

 

[Philpug]

Fischer boots? Your "go to" will be California Ski Co on Berkely, @Greg Whitehouse and his crew are as good as anyone for doing Vacuums. I have had early Fischers as have a few other members like @KingGrump and @alexz but every evolution of the boot has gotten better.

 

[skibob]

So, due to my carelessness and some people being real assholes, my bootbag got stolen a couple months ago, ski boots included. This means I'm on the market for new ski boots. The process of getting my ski boots dialed in has been a nightmare for both of the last two pairs that I've owned. It took me about 20 shop visits to get my Technica Ten.2's dialed in, and I'd really like to avoid that hassle this time around. And yes, I did go to (several) very well-respected boot-fitters in the Norcal and Tahoe area, but it mostly came down to me doing my own tinkering before I got them to feel okay.

So, with that in mind, I've been looking at the Fischer Vacuum boots. The general consensus on these seems to be that the fit is amazing, but that they:

a) leave feet feeling very cold
b) have a garbage stock liner
c) are very soft (even the 140's have a lot of give based on what I've read)
d) are prone to cracking and generally wear down very quickly (this one worries me the most)

Does anyone (especially long time owners of these boots) have any guidance in regards to these concerns?

I haven't found the feet to be cold, at all. Not at Tahoe temps anyway (down to 3F).

The stock liner (Progressor 13) isn't garbage, isn't amazing.

The flex I find to be very stiff and not progressive. The not progressive part being my least favorite part.

I've had no wear issues over two seasons of ~35 days each. Ok, probably only 60% of that was in the Progressors.

I will say they are no miracle. You still need a precision fit. What the thermomolding does though is greatly aid in eliminating any hot spots. Its nice. Its not magic. And you still need a good bootfitting.

 

[azaslavsky]

I haven't found the feet to be cold, at all. Not at Tahoe temps anyway (down to 3F).

The stock liner (Progressor 13) isn't garbage, isn't amazing.

The flex I find to be very stiff and not progressive. The not progressive part being my least favorite part.

I've had no wear issues over two seasons of ~35 days each. Ok, probably only 60% of that was in the Progressors.

I will say they are no miracle. You still need a precision fit. What the thermomolding does though is greatly aid in eliminating any hot spots. Its nice. Its not magic. And you still need a good bootfitting.

What do you mean by "not progressive" in regards to flex? I've never heard that term before.

My feet have different sizes (my big toe on my right foot is way bigger than my other for some weird reason), and whenever I get a boot that fits well on one foot, its always weird on the other. I was hoping these boots would fix that issue.

Are you generally happy with your purchase?

 

[azaslavsky]

Fischer boots? Your "go to" will be California Ski Co on Berkely, @Greg Whitehouse and his crew are as good as anyone for doing Vacuums. I have had early Fischers as have a few other members like @KingGrump and @alexz but every evolution of the boot has gotten better.

Do you like your boots, and have they shown any signs of excessive wear?

I actually got my last boots (the ones that got stolen) at CSC, and I really liked them a lot. The problem for me was that I found it really difficult to do any boot adjustment work so far from the mountain. By the time I got back to the Bay Area and had a chance to go talk to them, I could barely remember what felt "off" about the boot while I was skiing. It was a lot easier to make adjustments if I could go somewhere, get the boot tweaked, and then immediately ski to see if it had the desired affect.

 

[skibob]

What do you mean by "not progressive" in regards to flex? I've never heard that term before.

My feet have different sizes (my big toe on my right foot is way bigger than my other for some weird reason), and whenever I get a boot that fits well on one foot, its always weird on the other. I was hoping these boots would fix that issue.

Are you generally happy with your purchase?

I am generally happy. I've never been entirely satisfied with the fit in the lower shin area, but that isn't on the boots at all.

By not progressive, I mean it is a fairly on/off feeling. A more progressive boot will give you a progressively stiffer sensation as you ease into them. That first little flex is easy, almost like walking in hiking boots. But very quickly it ratchets up to "I can flex my Mantras on hardpack". BTW, I do understand that Fisher has tweaked the polymers in the last few years, so definitely flex them yourself. It may not be the case anymore.

Incidentally, I don't have the same toe issue per se. But I had a very sensitive toe nail on one foot (corrected with toenail removal this summer). It basically couldn't touch anything. So I took a screwdriver handle and a heat gun and made a big old bulge all the way around that toe with that heat moldable plastic. Worked great. Probably not the most advisable DIY project, but if I managed it, I bet a real live bootfitter could do even better.

 

[skibob]

Oh, and one weird idea I have about buying boots. To really see how you feel about the flex, ask the shop if you can borrow a pair of high din demo skis. Adjust to your BSL (or ask the shop to do so) and lay them on the floor (carpet preferably) and click into them. Now you can really see how you like the flex. Its a weird request, but as long as they aren't busy, it shouldn't be a big deal. OTOH, they may not want binding marks on the boots, so who knows.

I personally think shops should mount a pair of demo bindings on the floor so you can click in and really feel how the boot feels with a little resistance.

 

[azaslavsky]

Oh, and one weird idea I have about buying boots. To really see how you feel about the flex, ask the shop if you can borrow a pair of high din demo skis. Adjust to your BSL (or ask the shop to do so) and lay them on the floor (carpet preferably) and click into them. Now you can really see how you like the flex. Its a weird request, but as long as they aren't busy, it shouldn't be a big deal. OTOH, they may not want binding marks on the boots, so who knows.

I personally think shops should mount a pair of demo bindings on the floor so you can click in and really feel how the boot feels with a little resistance.

I REALLY love this idea! It's so hard to get any idea at all how the boots will feel in the mountain while you're in the shop. One of the most frustrating parts of the bootfitting experience in my opinion. Like when the bootfitter asks how a particular boot feels on my foot - they all feel fine when I'm just sitting there...

 

[Philpug]

I REALLY love this idea! It's so hard to get any idea at all how the boots will feel in the mountain while you're in the shop. One of the most frustrating parts of the bootfitting experience in my opinion. Like when the bootfitter asks how a particular boot feels on my foot - they all feel fine when I'm just sitting there...

This is one of the things I really liked about fitting boots on the hill, the ability to do some tweaking, then send the customer out, then do some more if need be.

 

[azaslavsky]

This is one of the things I really liked about fitting boots on the hill, the ability to do some tweaking, then send the customer out, then do some more if need be.

Sadly, it seems like none of the shops in the Tahoe area sell these boots and do the vacuum fitting - only CSC and Helm of Sun Valley in the Bay Area seem to. I'm not married to the idea of getting the Fischer boots, but anything that could cut down on the number of days I spend with the bootfitter this time around would be very welcome.

 

[Monique]

I bought Fischer Vacuums last season. I have had a miserable time with boot fitting over the years, but the Vacuum fit (which is a complete misnomer - it's more of a pressure and heat fit) has done miracles for me. I can't speak to the stock liner - I love my wrap-around Intuitions and brought them right over to the new boot, and of course they're incredibly warm.

So far, they haven't cracked. I only have 35ish days on them, some short, due to injury. But my boot fitter sells a lot of them and is happy with the results.

 

[Monique]

(I should add that the molding process isn't the end all be-all. We determined that these boots were the most comfortable out of the box already - *then* started molding. If another pair had been a better fit, we would have gone with more traditional fitting.)

 

[KingGrump]

Hi @azaslavsky , bummer to hear about your stolen boot.

I am on my third pair of Fischer Vac. All three pairs are the 130 pro. My current pair is at the end of its life with 240 days. I usually replace my boots when they go over 200 days.
Prior to the Fischer Vacs, I had multiple pairs of Head plugs and raptors. My first pair of 130 pro have about the same forward flex as the Head Raptors 120. The Head Raptors are stiffer laterally. Each successive iteration of the Fisher Vac had gotten stiffer lateral. The plugs are completely different animals. So I'll not discuss the performance differences here. The forward flex has increased about 10 point from the first pair to last. Subjective feel, so hard to quantify.
I use a booster strap (expert) tight up again the liner tongue on all my boots. It appears to resolve the sudden on/off issue.

The liner in the first gen was pretty much trash. Lasted 30 day. Replaced it with my old raptor liner for another 220 days. The current 3rd gen liner has 240 days on it with no issues. I'm pretty light on liners. Ankle hold down is almost never an issue with me. Active vs passive. Different philosophy for different folks.

Regarding the boots being cold. Never an issue with me. I used hotronics in my boot for the longest time as the all felt about the same.

Durability wise. The first two gens had cracking issues. The 3rd pair held up well.

The heat molding process is really neat. Prior to that my raptors took 10 passes to the fitter. One and done. Even with the heat molding process, it is important to find a experienced fitter to do the fitting.

Just a thought. If you need to bolt down your boot to flex it. Either you are not flexing correctly or the boot is too stiff for you.

Proper way to flex your ankle.

Hope that helped.

 

[azaslavsky]

I bought Fischer Vacuums last season. I have had a miserable time with boot fitting over the years, but the Vacuum fit (which is a complete misnomer - it's more of a pressure and heat fit) has done miracles for me. I can't speak to the stock liner - I love my wrap-around Intuitions and brought them right over to the new boot, and of course they're incredibly warm.

So far, they haven't cracked. I only have 35ish days on them, some short, due to injury. But my boot fitter sells a lot of them and is happy with the results.

I love Intuitions as well, and will probably get some anyway, so it's really not a big deal to me. Glad to hear that that solved the cold feet problem. Incidentally, I was curious about how a heat moldable liner and a heat moldable boot would play together, its good to hear that it works well.

 

[Greg Whitehouse]

So, due to my carelessness and some people being real assholes, my bootbag got stolen a couple months ago, ski boots included. This means I'm on the market for new ski boots. The process of getting my ski boots dialed in has been a nightmare for both of the last two pairs that I've owned. It took me about 20 shop visits to get my Technica Ten.2's dialed in, and I'd really like to avoid that hassle this time around. And yes, I did go to (several) very well-respected boot-fitters in the Norcal and Tahoe area, but it mostly came down to me doing my own tinkering before I got them to feel okay.

So, with that in mind, I've been looking at the Fischer Vacuum boots. The general consensus on these seems to be that the fit is amazing, but that they:

a) leave feet feeling very cold
b) have a garbage stock liner
c) are very soft (even the 140's have a lot of give based on what I've read)
d) are prone to cracking and generally wear down very quickly (this one worries me the most)

Does anyone (especially long time owners of these boots) have any guidance in regards to these concerns?

 

[Monique]

I use a booster strap (expert) tight up again the liner tongue on all my boots.

Oh, I forgot - I also use an expert Booster, but I don't use it against the liner like you're supposed to. I'm 100% sure the Booster in any configuration makes a boot ski better than stock - but I never tried the stock strap.

I love Intuitions as well, and will probably get some anyway, so it's really not a big deal to me. Glad to hear that that solved the cold feet problem. Incidentally, I was curious about how a heat moldable liner and a heat moldable boot would play together, its good to hear that it works well.

My fitter actually molded the boots with the molded Intuitions inside (and my feet, of course, inside those).

 

[azaslavsky]

Hi @azaslavsky , bummer to hear about your stolen boot.

I am on my third pair of Fischer Vac. All three pairs are the 130 pro. My current pair is at the end of its life with 240 days. I usually replace my boots when they go over 200 days.
Prior to the Fischer Vacs, I had multiple pairs of Head plugs and raptors. My first pair of 130 pro have about the same forward flex as the Head Raptors 120. The Head Raptors are stiffer laterally. Each successive iteration of the Fisher Vac had gotten stiffer lateral. The plugs are completely different animals. So I'll not discuss the performance differences here. The forward flex has increased about 10 point from the first pair to last. Subjective feel, so hard to quantify.
I use a booster strap (expert) tight up again the liner tongue on all my boots. It appears to resolve the sudden on/off issue.

The liner in the first gen was pretty much trash. Lasted 30 day. Replaced it with my old raptor liner for another 220 days. The current 3rd gen liner has 240 days on it with no issues. I'm pretty light on liners. Ankle hold down is almost never an issue with me. Active vs passive. Different philosophy for different folks.

Regarding the boots being cold. Never an issue with me. I used hotronics in my boot for the longest time as the all felt about the same.

Durability wise. The first two gens had cracking issues. The 3rd pair held up well.

The heat molding process is really neat. Prior to that my raptors took 10 passes to the fitter. One and done. Even with the heat molding process, it is important to find a experienced fitter to do the fitting.

Just a thought. If you need to bolt down your boot to flex it. Either you are not flexing correctly or the boot is too stiff for you.

Proper way to flex your ankle.

Hope that helped.

This reply helped immensely, thank you so much! Just a couple of questions, if you don't mind:

1. Regarding the cracking on the previous boots, how many days did you put on them before you started to notice it? Is this wear what caused you to discard these boots, or was it mostly just cosmetic?
2. Do you feel like the boot + liner combo was sufficient to get good heel lock? This is my biggest worry with the fit in general.

Regarding fitting in the shop: my biggest issues with all my boots have been hotspots on the top of my foot, and (especially) heel lock. I've found it very difficult to get a good idea of how "locked in" my hell is in the shop. In the past, I've needed that sideways resistance of skiings down an actual mountain to see how much play the heel has.

 

[Greg Whitehouse]

The Vac's are our best selling boots and we get a very low percentage back for tweaks compared to other boots. The fitters love to work with them. Most of us wear them. I personally love mine (currently in the Plug 150 model). I have also had every generation as well as trying every years liner version in my original Pro 130's. All the info I'm reading here sounds pretty correct. The Vacuums are great but you still need a good insole and a good fitter. The plastic is not quite as warm as standard PE or PU plastics. Fischer did not account for this in the early versions but has done a much better job with each generation of liner. We also mold quite a few with Intuition liners if you get cold easily and they work great as a combo. I find the current flex patterns to be much truer to other brands. They do not change as much with temperature variations as other boots so mid winter vs spring skiing are more consistent in how the boots flex. We have not had a problem with cracking (less than 1%). Shops at the mountain did have cracking problems. Fischer has concluded that boots crack if they do not set for 24-36 hours before being skied. The plastic doesn't currently correctly. I hope this helps...

 

[KingGrump]

This reply helped immensely, thank you so much! Just a couple of questions, if you don't mind:

1. Regarding the cracking on the previous boots, how many days did you put on them before you started to notice it? Is this wear what caused you to discard these boots, or was it mostly just cosmetic?
2. Do you feel like the boot + liner combo was sufficient to get good heel lock? This is my biggest worry with the fit in general.

Regarding fitting in the shop: my biggest issues with all my boots have been hotspots on the top of my foot, and (especially) heel lock. I've found it very difficult to get a good idea of how "locked in" my hell is in the shop. In the past, I've needed that sideways resistance of skiings down an actual mountain to see how much play the heel has.

I think Fischer had resolved the cracking issues. Several of my friends experienced the same issues with the earlier gen boots. FWIW, I always experienced my ski boots cracking while in use since the 1980s. All the boots I have ever had since the early 1980s cracked at the instep with the exception of one pair of San Marco TR3 and two pairs of Head plugs. So it is not a surprise event for me. I noticed the crack in my first pair of Fischer Vac after 230 days. Noticed the crack on my second pair after about 180 days. Drilled a stop hole at the end of the crack and skied for another 60 days prior to replacement. Not a big issue for me. My third pair has not yet exhibited any cracking. The boot still looks fine. I have a fitter appointment scheduled for the middle of October to replace the boot. Purely based on the number of days on snow.

Not sure about the effect of waiting 24-36 hour before skiing on the cracking issue. I usually get my boots in mid October and my first day on snow is commonly in early December.

In term of heel hold down, the Fischer Vac does a great job. I molded my last pair at 360 rear and 200 front. With the molding pressure at 360 in the rear section I can actually feel the boot cuff being pinched in to exert a firm grip on the rear of my ankle. Very similar to the feeling of being pinched by my thumb and index finger. The later gen liners are also much more anatomically correct when compare to the earlier gens.

 

[azaslavsky]

I think Fischer had resolved the cracking issues. Several of my friends experienced the same issues with the earlier gen boots. FWIW, I always experienced my ski boots cracking while in use since the 1980s. All the boots I have ever had since the early 1980s cracked at the instep with the exception of one pair of San Marco TR3 and two pairs of Head plugs. So it is not a surprise event for me. I noticed the crack in my first pair of Fischer Vac after 230 days. Noticed the crack on my second pair after about 180 days. Drilled a stop hole at the end of the crack and skied for another 60 days prior to replacement. Not a big issue for me. My third pair has not yet exhibited any cracking. The boot still looks fine. I have a fitter appointment scheduled for the middle of October to replace the boot. Purely based on the number of days on snow.

Not sure about the effect of waiting 24-36 hour before skiing on the cracking issue. I usually get my boots in mid October and my first day on snow is commonly in early December.

In term of heel hold down, the Fischer Vac does a great job. I molded my last pair at 360 rear and 200 front. With the molding pressure at 360 in the rear section I can actually feel the boot cuff being pinched in to exert a firm grip on the rear of my ankle. Very similar to the feeling of being pinched by my thumb and index finger. The later gen liners are also much more anatomically correct when compare to the earlier gens.

Last question: how were you able to apply different molding pressures for different parts of the boot? Just heat them separately?