The first-ever disqualification for using fluorine wax

[Tricia]

As referenced in a few threads over the past few years, banning fluorine is happening, like it or not.
The first disqualification of a racer for using fluorine wax happened at Solden

https://skiracing.com/mowinckel-first-ever-disqualified-for-fluorine-wax-use/?

FIS Postpones Fluorinated Wax Ban for a Year

Fluor wax ban

A few years ago we had Ian Harvey from Toko on the show where he shared some insights on this topic.

Ski Talk w/Dan Egan Episode 5: With guests Mike Hattrup, Ian Hunter/Toko and Justin Koski

This week Dan Egan and Phil Pugliese talk to Mike Hattrup about his exciting career on snow as well as the hands on development at Fischer Skis and the impor...

youtube.com

 

[Tricia]

New news.
The tool used by the waxing techs had fluorine detected but the wax on her skis was also tested and did not contain fluorine.

https://skiracing.com/waxing-tool-responsible-for-mowinckels-positive-fluorine-test/?

 

[dbostedo]

"The results: the cause of the increased levels was a ski waxing tool that was used to prepare the skis."

So like a scraper or brush has enough old fluorinated wax on it, that it transferred to the ski and was detected? I wish they'd given more detail.

 

[cantunamunch]

"The results: the cause of the increased levels was a ski waxing tool that was used to prepare the skis."

So like a scraper or brush has enough old fluorinated wax on it, that it transferred to the ski and was detected? I wish they'd given more detail.

I'm thinking rotocork. *shrug* I could see it.

 

[jt10000]

I'm thinking rotocork. *shrug* I could see it.

Yeah. I'm certain I could clean a scraper enough for it not to be issue. Not as sure about a brush, but probably.

But a cork/rotocork: much more of a problem.

 

[Primoz]

"The results: the cause of the increased levels was a ski waxing tool that was used to prepare the skis."

So like a scraper or brush has enough old fluorinated wax on it, that it transferred to the ski and was detected? I wish they'd given more detail.

Scraper not, brush/rotobrush/rotocork definitely. Most of powder brushes have so much powder in them, that you don't even need to put powder on ski to have same effect when just brushing ski with them. But I would somehow imagine, that people cleaned or even exchanged brushes. Most of people I know were cleaning tool boxes, ski bags and whole wax trucks and/or home skirooms where they were preparing skis (not super fun project) so I would assume brushes, which are way more "dirty" then anything else would be changed (personally I wouldn't count on "cleaning" if WC race (and possible victory) would be in play). Well if this what Head wrote in their PR memo is true, then I guess someone didn't do his most basic homework.

 

[Swiss Toni]

The FIS’s Cleaning Methods Guidelines https://www.fis-ski.com/inside-fis/document-library/fluor-wax-information say that “Softer brushes, roto wool, roto fleece (used for powders and liquids) seem to be more difficult to be cleaned, cleaning of those have been non conclusive – best to replace it.” It sounds like the service technician involved didn’t follow the guidelines.

 

[cantunamunch]

...or they are throwing the tech under the bus...

 

[Frenchman]

...or they are throwing the tech under the bus...

But the article also says, I quote:

Mowinckel’s ski technician had her skis “with the exact same preparation” tested by FIS officials two days ago, according to Salzgeber, adding that “everything was green. Now it is dark red.”

 

[cantunamunch]

But the article also says, I quote:

Mowinckel’s ski technician had her skis “with the exact same preparation” tested by FIS officials two days ago, according to Salzgeber, adding that “everything was green. Now it is dark red.”

Exactly

 

[Primoz]

Believe it or not, but in alpine there are guys there who have "special 20 years old brushes" saving them in special box and using them just for special occasions (read: races). So maybe that brush was not cleaned (enough) or well... maybe it's something much simpler like, it's race so lets still try to go with fluoro. I got this Head thing in mail from Head and it's PR article, and I think we should all take it as PR article not as scientific research material with 100% accurate data.

 

[Tony S]

Bear with me for a minute and think about fluoro use as "doping for skis." (Yes, there are limits to this analogy.) It's clear to me, from this side of the Atlantic, that there is a long, long tradition in high profile European sports of treating fairness rules with a wink and a nudge. "Everyone knows" that they're honored only in the breach.

I'm not saying that the FIS is not serious about enforcing this flouro rule. Obviously I have no insight into that. My point is that I'd be surprised if there weren't a whole slew of people on the inside who are not yet taking this seriously in private, no matter how contrite they may appear in public.

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm not saying that the FIS is not serious about enforcing this flouro rule. Obviously I have no insight into that. My point is that I'd be surprised if there weren't a whole slew of people on the inside who are not yet taking this seriously in private, no matter how contrite they may appear in public.

This is completely congruent with both Primož' and my observations.

 

[Zirbl]

Any chance of contamination from the palm of a PFC-treated glove?

Are course workers required not to use fluoro or could the snow get contaminated at a given gate if there were a lot of work to do there?

 

[pchewn]

My point is that I'd be surprised if there weren't a whole slew of people on the inside who are not yet taking this seriously in private, no matter how contrite they may appear in public.

Maybe they'll take it more seriously after more testing and more disqualifications??? The FIS was pretty clear that the 2023/2024 season was the beginning of the "get serious" phase -- after receiving the quick Fluro test from the test developer.

https://www.fis-ski.com/en/internat...ment-fluor-wax-ban-at-start-of-2023-24-season

 

[Zirbl]

So have I got this right? Fluoro - harmful to work with. Paraffin, nano-level graphite, molybdenum, tungsten, zinc stearates, ceramic - completely fine to melt, scrape and brush?

 

[Primoz]

@Zirbl you got it quite right. But you also forgot all the harm those few kilos of fluoro used in those few ski waxes can do to environment. All those tons of fluoro used for every possible item you buy is all good on the other side. But since this issue with ski waxes is now solved, I think we are good to go and world is saved so no more global warming, no more polution and all is good and perfect again. See how much good skiing can do to world

 

[snwbrdr]

So have I got this right? Fluoro - harmful to work with. Paraffin, nano-level graphite, molybdenum, tungsten, zinc stearates, ceramic - completely fine to melt, scrape and brush?

Fluoro overlays can be harmful to work with, especially if you're using an iron to melt the fluoro powder, it requires high heat, which then the fluoro can smoke and inhaling that can be harmful.

The safer method is corking it in, but less durable. But usually last long enough for one run.

Fluoro impregnated waxes, unless the iron temperature is too hot, it's generally safe to work with.

So... people are just generalizing fluoro handling dangers without knowing the nuances. But, I doubt you want to snort a line of fluoro powder like it is cocaine.

 

[Tricia]

I don't know enough about it so I'm just over here listening.

 

[scott43]

I still don't really understand why anyone cares. If nobody has access to them.. I guess the land speed record won't be broken...