Slow Line Fast Bump Skiing done slowly.

[Josh Matta]

cool story, what I saw was a ton of hip following their skis and just off balance skiing. Many are to far forward and going after a look instead of actual ski performance. can you time stamp the good skiers? I have a mind to start a thread and MA them with out knowing who they are......I watch all the way though and really did nt see anything Eric Lipton caliper in that video.

 

[mdf]

Ok, now I'm motivated to watch the whole thing. How about we skip the rhetorical excess and simply pick out our 3 favorites?

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Having been in that situation, it is about standing out relative to the others. Slow and controlled won't win. You take some risks, or as I like to the think of it, give the illusion of recklessness. A wreck won't end it for you if you look good until that point.

 

[jimtransition]

cool story, what I saw was a ton of hip following their skis and just off balance skiing. Many are to far forward and going after a look instead of actual ski performance. can you time stamp the good skiers? I have a mind to start a thread and MA them with out knowing who they are......I watch all the way though and really did nt see anything Eric Lipton caliper in that video.

So unless you ski the same as Eric, you're not a good skier? Pretty harsh criteria..

I didn't watch the whole vid, but the guy in the purple jacket at around 3.30 is on the national demo team now.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Well, if they made the D-Team you'd expect them to ski about on par with Eric.

That guy in the purple looked pretty good, but I wasn't going to watch 23 minutes of that video and spot the rest. It's pretty easy to criticize when you weren't there!

 

[Josh Matta]

Having been in that situation, it is about standing out relative to the others. Slow and controlled won't win. You take some risks, or as I like to the think of it, give the illusion of recklessness. A wreck won't end it for you if you look good until that point.

which is not what I would agree with....

for me to get into a zone where I look like I am recovering I am so near possible injury its just not worth it.

Mod Edit.

 

[François Pugh]

Having been in that situation, it is about standing out relative to the others. Slow and controlled won't win. You take some risks, or as I like to the think of it, give the illusion of recklessness. A wreck won't end it for you if you look good until that point.

My impression was that we have folks who are not bump experts in expert-level bumps, making many of us feel better about our own bump skiing. Your explanation that they were pushing their limits in order not to be cut from the list makes a lot of sense. They, just like someone putting on a demo for the demo team, must find that balance between too much (DNF) and not enough (30th place).

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Maybe. It's a competition. To quote Alsacia, "You've gotta risk it for the biscuit".

edit: replying to Josh

 

[Josh Matta]

Well, if they made the D-Team you'd expect them to ski about on par with Eric.

That guy in the purple looked pretty good, but I wasn't going to watch 23 minutes of that video and spot the rest. It's pretty easy to criticize when you weren't there!

I would love to have video of the eastern team tryouts, and the Dev team tryouts to post up the internet.....I was there. It doesnt matter though. Its not objective. I have had score card holders flat out tell me its not objective.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I've always thought it would be interesting if the participants themselves threw scores for everyone else. You sort of know where everyone else stands relative to one another, you just skied the run, you know what it feels like. Potential for abuse does exist there though. I'm sure that you remember that one year Eastern talked about doing that, the question being what would those scores mean (they never said) would they factor in to the overall score, or would they treat it like an MA exercise and see how your scores compared to theirs.

 

[LiquidFeet]

There are three individuals in that group that made the demo team and at least three others that made the semifinal cut.....

....I have a mind to start a thread and MA them with out knowing who they are.......

Having been in that situation, it is about standing out relative to the others. Slow and controlled won't win. You take some risks, or as I like to the think of it, give the illusion of recklessness....

I took a long look at this video to see if I could guess which three made the demo team. Below are the three I think looked the strongest (disclosure: all of these skiers ski bumps way better than me).

In an attempt to NOT be an ass (in keeping with PugSki rules), I'm avoiding saying anything negative about specific skiers I didn't choose. In general, the best skiers that I did not choose were slow and very capable, but not exciting to watch. Others that I didn't choose displayed a variety of habits that I wouldn't expect to see on the demo team: out-of-balance-bobbles, jerky or large hand movements, folding at the waist when hitting a bump wrong, using downhill slippage for speed control, lack of variety in turn shape and line, and repeated use of pivoting to skid the skis against the snow for speed control.

10:33 super smooth with great flow, varies turn radius easily, makes it look like fun.
15:33 exciting to see those reaching short radius turns; versatile, smooth handling of this run
17.52 no question in my mind this is the best one of the bunch; uses turns of varying radius, goes fast and slow at will using turn direction, takes air smoothly, no wobbles anywhere, excellent in every way, makes it look easy

 

[Josh Matta]

sorry but again I have no idea who these people are....being at a tryout like this does nt make them good examples...

10:33 has a ton of good stuff in his skiing, but rotary push back up the hill many times in that video, i'd say he does it more than half of the time. This is due to to his balance being overly far forward all off the time which prevents a good infinity move style transition from happening.

15:33 exciting for sure but for the wrong reason. His boots are slightly upright, has the same rotary push off going on, but does seem to get more out of the skis than just about anyone in this video.

17:52 I liked his skiing, but he at the limit, falls, I am not saying falls are bad, but he isnt able to react at his choosen speed.

I would rank them 15:33, 17:52, 10:33

3:15 guys in the purple IMO is the best in the video. but even he parked a rode a couple lanes changes in the middle of his run.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Josh, you don't think any of them deserved to be chosen for the demo team?

 

[Josh Matta]

Doesnt matter what I think in regards to the D team.....which BTW is a team not based purely on skiing skills. I am posted up what I thought of the skiing, not whether they should be on the D team or not. Also the 3 you mention, and the one more I added, are not necessarily the D team picks.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Right. But it would be interesting to know which ones made the team, wouldn't it?
You are always very precise in identifying weak moves in someone's skiing; that's an important part of coaching.
So I've responded below to your specifics, with some questions. I'd like to see what you see.
Doing this exercise made it obvious to me that whoever was standing at the bottom of the run scoring theses skiers had a very tough job getting it right.

10:33 has a ton of good stuff in his skiing, but rotary push back up the hill many times in that video, i'd say he does it more than half of the time. This is due to to his balance being overly far forward all off the time which prevents a good infinity move style transition from happening. Green helmet, two-tone jacket, light pants. I see no RPO in this guy's skiing. Backpedaling is clearly visible in a number of shots of him from the side. But that's not RPO. Can you point out one turn where RPO is really obvious?

15:33 exciting for sure but for the wrong reason. His boots are slightly upright, has the same rotary push off going on, but does seem to get more out of the skis than just about anyone in this video. White helmet, red jacket, black pants. Again, I see no RPO here either. RPO = bracing against the downhill/old outside ski at the end of the turn instead of releasing that ski, then extending off that downhill ski in a way that turns the upper body in the direction of the new turn, ahead of the skis. The upper body's rotation turns the uphill/new inside ski to point into the new turn. That uphill ski turns ahead of the downhill/new inside ski, and this usually causes a stem entry. I know this pattern because it's a two-step (sequential) turn entry I used to use, a thing I had to purge from my skiing (gone now). Can you point out one turn in this guy's skiing where that's obvious?

17:52 I liked his skiing, but he at the limit, falls, I am not saying falls are bad, but he isnt able to react at his choosen speed. White helmet, blue jacket, tan pants. This guy did not fall. You must be looking at some other skier.

3:15 guys in the purple IMO is the best in the video. but even he parked a rode a couple lanes changes in the middle of his run. Yes, very good skiing. I read those two spots you saw as P&R as hesitations. I took epic's advice above and chose skiers who stood out for their aggressive control of the whole run.

 

[mdf]

17:52 I liked his skiing, but he at the limit, falls, I am not saying falls are bad, but he isnt able to react at his choosen speed. White helmet, blue jacket, tan pants. This guy did not fall. You must be looking at some other skier.

Actually I think he does, after the camera leaves him. Look at 18:18. At first I wondered why they were filming a guy standing there with a camera. Then I realized tan pants was in the background.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Yup, I missed that. Whoops.

A number of these skiers ski very capably, and their runs look much like each other.
That guy starting at 17:52 is still my favorite of the bunch.

 

[BornToSki683]

There are some definitely very strong skiers in that video. Its easy to get nit picky about the skiing in what looks to be rather difficult conditions and a nerve racking situation. How many of us turn into stiffened up golf carts when skiing in front of our peers in a test situation? I suspect that even some of the skiers that looked pretty apprehensive in there can ski quite well when not under the gun like that. There were half a dozen skiers in there that I suspect are incredible skiers we would all love to follow around.

I also liked the guy at 17:52, just fun to watch, he flows with great energy and has a nice "touch". However, what he does NOT have is good engagement above the fall line, which is why I think Josh pointed out his speed is partly due to lack of ability to control it. The guy in purple skis more slowly, which to some might look less dynamic but is actually quite skilled in that he is getting a much rounder turn shape from top to bottom of each turn, and thus, controlling his speed. Josh started out this thread demoing something like that. There is quite a bit of technique skill going on with the purple guy, but truthfully he looks on the surface less impressive and dynamic as some of the other guys, but that smoothness is coming from a high degree of skill in my view. One is not necessarily "better" then the other.

The guy at 17:52 in particular on his turns to the left, he gets airborne almost every time and twists his skis out past the fall line with his upper body inclining way early out of balance. Whether he's using an actual rotary push off to do it is somewhat debatable, but I see a lot of blocking pole plants also...I think he is not allowing his CoM to move across his skis at the end of the turn. Not a very good release. But he's still a very fun skier to watch I agree!

There are about half a dozen skiers in that video that are all pretty darn decent skiers, are they perfect? NO! We can pick them apart one by one if you want, but every single one of them could work on this or that. In some cases its a subjective matter of personal style about how to approach skiing in that situation. I think the guy in purple has a more conservative style, but highly skilled, he's making better use of his skis and being smoother, even if it looks kinda boring to some. He could maybe work a bit on lingering in the fall line a little more. The guy at 17:52 is a more dynamic skier for sure, but he's got some releasing and early engagement skills he could work on, which would smooth him out a bit. Some people want to stay in the fall line more and some people want to turn out of the fall line more. Is one way better then the other? I say no, unless the guy in the the fall line is out of control or the guy turning out of the fall line is bracing against his ski too much or slamming on the brakes at the end of every turn, then maybe we could say something about it, but often its just a personal matter of style and tactical choice about how to approach skiing the mountain. This is not a race. For what this is, my preference would go to the skiers with the roundest turns.

I do not agree at all with someone who said that National D-teamers need to be on the edge of recklessness to make the team. They've got to be dynamic, but I think they need to demonstrate skiing skills; as rad as they can be, without compromising the skills and technique or control. I am annoyed by the number of times I see these guys doing airplane turns, or air carves, whatever you want to call it. I feel that is a cop out move. They probably think they are just trying to look more dynamic, and they are...but...I feel it can often be used as a cop out from seeing the line and working the skis to ski the line, which in my view is a truer demonstration of skiing technique and skill, as well as control. Air carves are not actually that technically difficult, they just require some athleticism. They won't be doing that crap when they are 20 years older. Speaking of which, the guy in purple can ski that way on that hill until he's at least 75, the guy at 17:52 will have to change his skiing as he ages.

 

[Tricia]

Maybe. It's a competition. To quote Alsacia, "You've gotta risk it for the biscuit".

edit: replying to Josh

That's signature worthy.

 

[fullStack]

Haven't seen anyone mention the lady starting at 5:50, orange pants (always a good choice) and pink helmet.

I showed that to my wife and daughters as a goal for next year, fluid, confident skiing for 20+ turns on something steep enough to count as a real bump run (the Sodbuster video qualifies).

If they don't pass, then they will have to pay for their own season passes starting in 2018.