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Slow Line Fast Bump Skiing done slowly.

Mike King

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Haven't seen anyone mention the lady starting at 5:50, orange pants (always a good choice) and pink helmet.

I showed that to my wife and daughters as a goal for next year, fluid, confident skiing for 20+ turns on something steep enough to count as a real bump run (the Sodbuster video qualifies).

If they don't pass, then they will have to pay for their own season passes starting in 2018.

LMAO. Wonder what your season will look like if they decide not to ski...

Mike
 

BornToSki683

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I think it's ridiculously silly to blow your knee out for a ski instruction organization tryout of any kind including the national team. As a ski instruction organization they should be exemplifying sound technique and the best demo ability available for that technique which would totally and completely exclude going for broke on the edge of recklessness. I'm glad I have no plans to ever try out for that team because I would never under an circumstance ski to the point of blowing out my knee or being on the verge of recklessness either for that matter.

I hear you, Epic, in so much that if this is the current mindset of the people running things so apparently that may be necessary, but it should not be necessary, nor does it exemplify high end ski technique to be "reckless" or even close to reckless going for broke. If someone feels they need to be reckless to get the card then either their technique isn't there yet and they have no business being there, or else the expectation set by those from above to ski that way is stupid. That mindset maybe goes for video production companies, it has no place at the top of a ski instruction org.

I've heard some similar comments from local decl's and I think it's absurd. Psia is supposed to be about teaching people how to ski, not how to show off on the edge of recklessness.
 

karlo

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I like the following

1:45 for smooth and controlled.
3:45 for the Franz Klammer impersonation. Most entertaining.
12:10 Most disappointing. Those first turns, I was thinking, wow, this is really going to be good. Very unlucky. Obviously shaken up and a different skier. Would like to see her best skiing.

No one inspired me. I like it when I see extreme difficulty made to look easy, effortless, even playful.
 

BornToSki683

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I like the following

1:45 for smooth and controlled.

Definitely smooth and controlled. What I do like is that he's getting early edge engagement and a fairly round turn shape. What I don't like is that way he banks inside a bit, and at the end of every turn he was leaned up the hill rather then centered (laterally) over his skis. There is not enough counter-action happening for this turn size and conditions. Bump skiing is where we should expect to see the most counter developed, but he only develops a little tiny bit and kind of follows his skis with his hips too much for the situation IMHO. That contributes to the lean-uphill at the end of every turn. I'd like to see him with his hips over his skis at the turn finish and flowing the CoM down the mountain, crossing the skis earlier, then developing better angulation with less banking, and more counter (ie, facing down the fall line), which would contribute to making that better release at the end of every turn.

3:45 for the Franz Klammer impersonation. Most entertaining.
Indeed! He was definitely going for broke though. Hope he didn't injure himself.

In general, I will make the observation that very few (there are a few standouts) of these skiers have a well developed ability to absorb a bump and crossover in transition simultaneously at the same time, which is a crucial skill for bump skiing. Most of them are reliant on an extension move to initiate turns. Some of them were barely absorbing the bumps at all because its contrary to their normal muscle pattern for transitioning and initiating each turn. So they are kind of stuck in fairly static stance...which means the bumps will either give them hell or force them to try to pick a line that avoids crossing any bumps. The latter can really only be done in either fairly conservative manner, or else they will have to use air carves and other stuff to GS their way down the bump run with somewhat poor bump absorption happening.

Most of the skiers that were absorbing the bumps were still delaying the turn init until after absorbing the bump. This delay made almost all of them look like they were having trouble keeping up with the line. A few of them compensated for that in various ways like doing air carves, or aggressive rotary to start the turn late, play catch up so to speak. Most of them end up without really moving their CoM down the mountain during release, they are stuck on the uphill side of their skis and rather then crossover with a nice release (while flexing to absorb at the same time), they instead make an up move and twist their skis up the hill to get to the new edges that way. This process takes longer and results in late engagement, albiet with the bump at least being absorbed better then that static group mentioned above.

In conclusion, they are deficient in flex-to-release technique. How they go about coping with the terrain that really needs that technique manifests itself in the above ways.
 

Mike King

AKA Habacomike
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In general, I will make the observation that very few (there are a few standouts) of these skiers have a well developed ability to absorb a bump and crossover in transition simultaneously at the same time, which is a crucial skill for bump skiing. Most of them are reliant on an extension move to initiate turns. Some of them were barely absorbing the bumps at all because its contrary to their normal muscle pattern for transitioning and initiating each turn. So they are kind of stuck in fairly static stance...which means the bumps will either give them hell or force them to try to pick a line that avoids crossing any bumps. The latter can really only be done in either fairly conservative manner, or else they will have to use air carves and other stuff to GS their way down the bump run with somewhat poor bump absorption happening.

Most of the skiers that were absorbing the bumps were still delaying the turn init until after absorbing the bump. This delay made almost all of them look like they were having trouble keeping up with the line. A few of them compensated for that in various ways like doing air carves, or aggressive rotary to start the turn late, play catch up so to speak. Most of them end up without really moving their CoM down the mountain during release, they are stuck on the uphill side of their skis and rather then crossover with a nice release (while flexing to absorb at the same time), they instead make an up move and twist their skis up the hill to get to the new edges that way. This process takes longer and results in late engagement, albiet with the bump at least being absorbed better then that static group mentioned above.

In conclusion, they are deficient in flex-to-release technique. How they go about coping with the terrain that really needs that technique manifests itself in the above ways.

I was on the chair with Jim Schanzenbaker and Josh Fogg just after the tryout when Josh asked Schanzy what he thought of the bump skiing. Schanzy had observed the tryout. Shcanzy's comment was that very few of the candidates had range of motion necessary to ski the bumps well.

I've been working with Schanzy to improve my own skiing. One of the key takeaways I've had is the necessity to not only flex to release, but to be able to release and initiate the turn from a position that is at the end of my range of motion in absorption. When I get the whole movement of my lower body thing (in part, using the full range of motion) in skiing bumps, they go from being obstacles to ski around to a 3 dimensional suface with an infinite number of line choices.

Mike
 

BornToSki683

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Ivery few of the candidates had range of motion necessary to ski the bumps well.

I've been working with Schanzy to improve my own skiing. One of the key takeaways I've had is the necessity to not only flex to release, but to be able to release and initiate the turn from a position that is at the end of my range of motion in absorption. When I get the whole movement of my lower body thing (in part, using the full range of motion) in skiing bumps, they go from being obstacles to ski around to a 3 dimensional suface with an infinite number of line choices.

Mike

Bingo!
 

john petersen

working through minutia to find the big picture!
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a cool exercise:

start a bump run on top of a bump fully flexed, site your line and begin skiing.....you tend to focus on guiding and extending movements which keeps the skis on the snow once you get going. This helps with smooth transitions. Try another set of turns starting from standing tall and compare the mindset. its really cool.

There were a few skiers that hit the mark overall, keeping good balance throughout turns, nice range of motion, smooth transitions, ect....and some looked posed for the camera, others were on the verge of flight, and a few rushed it out of the gate: you could see the looks on their faces and hear their brains screaming "Why am I going so fast?!"

JP
 

Zentune

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Not gonna ma these guys, don't have the time but I will say it's pretty common to see aspiring bump skiers skiing either flexed fully the whole time or extended fully the whole time. So with those that I work with, I remind them (and demo) that they have to "reset" before and after each bump. After flexing you have to extend again and vice-versa, and it's gotta be a proactive thing. Start flexing early enough so that you "accept" the bump like a smooth riding car and then extending early enough so that you can eastablish some earlier contact down the back side or into the trough. Then there's the whole fore/aft management to consider.....and of course there are many ways/lines to ski bumps.

zenny
 
Last edited:

Zentune

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Here's a very short clip of me absorbing a medium sized bump....I think I could have been even more proactive than that, but is sort of what I was talking about. I see it coming so I extend even more so that I can "accept" the terrain...definitely NOT saying I'm a pro bumper or anything! Sorry for the verticality of the vid!


zenny
 

karlo

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A bit of a contrast, but what's interesting here is though this clip shows faster skiing, the line is still round and there's no hurry making the transition happen... It's fast, but looks slow:


It is always a pleasure to ski soft, powdery bumps.
 

Erik Timmerman

So much better than a pro
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I think it's ridiculously silly to blow your knee out for a ski instruction organization tryout of any kind including the national team. As a ski instruction organization they should be exemplifying sound technique and the best demo ability available for that technique which would totally and completely exclude going for broke on the edge of recklessness. I'm glad I have no plans to ever try out for that team because I would never under an circumstance ski to the point of blowing out my knee or being on the verge of recklessness either for that matter.

I hear you, Epic, in so much that if this is the current mindset of the people running things so apparently that may be necessary, but it should not be necessary, nor does it exemplify high end ski technique to be "reckless" or even close to reckless going for broke. If someone feels they need to be reckless to get the card then either their technique isn't there yet and they have no business being there, or else the expectation set by those from above to ski that way is stupid. That mindset maybe goes for video production companies, it has no place at the top of a ski instruction org.

I've heard some similar comments from local decl's and I think it's absurd. Psia is supposed to be about teaching people how to ski, not how to show off on the edge of recklessness.

It's fine line between that and being called "golf carts" isn't it?
 

markojp

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I think it's ridiculously silly to blow your knee out for a ski instruction organization tryout of any kind including the national team. As a ski instruction organization they should be exemplifying sound technique and the best demo ability available for that technique which would totally and completely exclude going for broke on the edge of recklessness. I'm glad I have no plans to ever try out for that team because I would never under an circumstance ski to the point of blowing out my knee or being on the verge of recklessness either for that matter.

I hear you, Epic, in so much that if this is the current mindset of the people running things so apparently that may be necessary, but it should not be necessary, nor does it exemplify high end ski technique to be "reckless" or even close to reckless going for broke. If someone feels they need to be reckless to get the card then either their technique isn't there yet and they have no business being there, or else the expectation set by those from above to ski that way is stupid. That mindset maybe goes for video production companies, it has no place at the top of a ski instruction org.

I've heard some similar comments from local decl's and I think it's absurd. Psia is supposed to be about teaching people how to ski, not how to show off on the edge of recklessness.

No. It's not. Don't use this as an opportunity to toss the baby out with bathwater that you've read about. It's not correct, nor is it fair. Go ski with anyone who made the final 25 selection cut. I think you might feel a bit differently.
 

LiquidFeet

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It's fine line between that and being called "golf carts" isn't it?

I mentioned that phrase "golf cart" in a LIII training clinic I took this last season. I used the phrase in reference to what I didn't want to look like, but felt I probably did look like, while trying to do the tasks required in the skiing exam.

Unexpectedly, the examiner/leader of the clinic did not like hearing me say that phrase, and took it as a complaint by me of his skiing and/or of the examination process itself. None of that was what I meant; I was being self-deprecating. Once said however, it was impossible to take back. It was also impossible to explain to him that I didn't mean him or the test and exam process.

From that point on during the two-day clinic it was clear that he put me in the category of "difficult student."
I hope I do not get him as an examiner when I go up for LIII one day, because there's now bad blood there.

I meant no offense when I said it... :huh:
Be warned if you're PSIA and working on certification: there are sensitive examiners out there who may take offense.
 

karlo

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a cool exercise:

start a bump run on top of a bump fully flexed, .....Try another set of turns starting from standing tall and compare the mindset.

JP

Yes! Standing tall! I like being very tall at the top of the bump, and LOVE the feeling of free-fall going over the other side. Best thing short of getting that feeling in steeps. I think I have always loved that feeling. I spent a day with Dan Egan, at Killington, a season ago and he put it to words. The transition, it's the moment of weightlessness, quiet, and joy. The turn after? Make a great one to get to that next moment of joy. I recognized what he was talking about immediately. Comparing it with a waltz or foxtrot or tango, it's that momentary pause when you feel closest to your partner and/or immerse yourself in the moment.

I guess what I mean is that discussing skiing can get so technical, yet Mindset is so important. Like that Japanese video earlier in this thread. What is the model skier feeling that the other skiers can aspire to?
 

BornToSki683

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No. It's not. Don't use this as an opportunity to toss the baby out with bathwater that you've read about. It's not correct, nor is it fair. Go ski with anyone who made the final 25 selection cut. I think you might feel a bit differently.

Not exactly sure what you're referring to. What is the baby and what is the bath water you are referring to?
 

BornToSki683

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It's fine line between that and being called "golf carts" isn't it?

I actually see quite a wide gulf. The only point I was trying to make is that in that situation its very easy to stiffen up and ski less free, quite a bit so. The pressure of the situation. I was actually trying to cut those guys some slack in that regard. Still, being on the edge of recklessness is not the place to be either.
 

markojp

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Not exactly sure what you're referring to. What is the baby and what is the bath water you are referring to?


Sort of trashing the try out program based on the notion that the process makes injury nearly inevitable. Do you know anyone who was there? Just curious.
 

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