Skier Only Mountains

[fatbob]

Given that you are redragging up almost the same comments you made a couple of days ago when everyone else has moved on I offer you a thought experiment.

Imagine there was no such thing as snowboards. Imagine the yoof you seem to despise being on the hill in the same numbers on monoskis or twintips or maybe FIS SL skis get a cult following and a few if them buzz people by literally skiing circles around them. Do you ban each type of equipment where a few participants seem to be unruly or do you target the individuals? What about when the yoof get on to skiing on your own regular joe skis?

You are no more right than me saying I have a problem with BMW drivers and I wish BMWs weren't there based on my anecdotal experience that some BMW drivers drive like A holes. They would drive equally badly in Audis or Tauruses or in the the case of the urban tank X5 drivers blocking roads outside a school near you, in a beat up minivan.

Bit unfair on the normal BMW drivers who are courteous, perhaps like some of the high performance features of their ride and can't avoid some of the consequences of their chosen equipment e.g. RWD on a slick road.

 

[Tricia]

I'm a decent snowboarder, but I probably wouldn't want to ride Alta. Too much traversing.

Taos Ski Valley only started allowing snowboarding in 2008 - March 19th, 2008: The day Hell froze over.

IMO, Taos has some of the best snowboarders in the country. Absolutely incredible athletes that ride every line on that mountain and look damn good doing it.

Are there "bad" snowboarders out there? Sure. Are there plenty of heel side heroes that push snow down the hill without ever making a single turn? Yup. But I can almost guarantee that for every one of those boarders, there are 2 skiers that are equally as cringe-worthy.

 

[Jacob]

.

With due respect.....Im not saying any of this to purposely fight but just honest questions.
I don't really get why its generally almost insisted that those who don't like boarding (for whatever their reasons) have to basically be told they are wrong and/or have it sort of implied to them that they are being closed minded , ridiculous, need to get over it, shouldn't think that way, don't really have justification for their feelings, etc,etc,.

Because people who insist on ranting about snowboarding are not just expressing their personal preferences as to which types of activities they prefer but are instead going on and on about how they dislike entire groups of people. And, they usually try to justify discrimination, exclusion, and widespread criticism (regardless of whether it is deserved) toward the entire group.

Even in your own post, you disprove your whole argument about why you dislike snowboarding by saying that it's not actually about snowboarding but is in fact about a certain demographic of people which includes skiers (and quite a lot of snowboarders don't fall into that demographic as well). So, you can't even agree with yourself about what it is you don't like.

To make things simpler, imagine that you are at a fork in the road with two identical narrow slopes to choose from. On the left, you've got 10 skiers who are all 15-25 years old. On the right, you've got 10 snowboarders who are all 40-50 years old. Do you choose to ski among the young skiers, or do you choose the older snowboarders?

FWIW, I personally don't have an interest in doing any snowboarding. But, I have absolutely no problem with sharing the mountain with snowboarders. I don't find them any more dangerous or threatening or annoying than the skiers I see around me. And, I think it's a bad business decision to ban them from resorts.

 

[focker]

Strong posts by Fatbob and Jacob damn...

 

[mdf]

The other reason not to hate on snowboarders is that it messes you up. You can get so wound up wishing that other people were different that you keep yourself from enjoying the day.

 

[Utahski]

B.S.

 

[David Chaus]

BSSHTCTBAP
both skiers and snowboarders have the capacity to be awesome people.

My suggestion is to pay attention to when things are working well, rather than focus on the negatives you’d rather avoid. What you notice and highlight in your mind, regulates your internal state. If you are upset and agitated, your nervous system is on “high alert” and you are more likely to react poorly and respond aggressively. Your skiing or boarding will suffer and you will be miserable.

 

[Jim McDonald]

My drill instructor told us, "10% of any group of people are assholes; keep that in mind, avoid them, and you will complete the mission and enjoy your life."
Now, he was a bastard (that, after all, was his job) but the longer I live, the more those words ring true.

 

[Wilhelmson]

This isn't discrimination. It's a business choosing how to run their business. There's a niche of skiers looking for skier only mountains and certain places choose to cater to them.

When I was younger I had the privilege to ski with sponsored boarders who always welcomed me even though I was an intermediate skier. If I were to stereotype it would just as likely be towards ski snobs as boarders. I have more important things to worry about and better things to do than sweat the small bs.

 

[jmeb]

This isn't discrimination. It's a business choosing how to run their business. There's a niche of skiers looking for skier only mountains and certain places choose to cater to them.

It is discrimination. It's also a business decision. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. Lots of places practice forms of discrimination as a form of business.

But discrimination isn't inherently illegal. It's only illegal when applied to protected classes. What you choose to slide on snow with isn't a protected class.

 

[focker]

I've posted a lot of snark in this thread, and I'll likely post a lot more, but I do want to add something serious.

I have no issue with the resorts that are ski only. None. If that's how they want to operate, fine. I also don't think banning boarders is some sort of huge class discrimination type deal either. It's just a business decision.

I hope to someday ski Alta very badly, but in no way is that because they don't allow boarders. I don't care about the other two at all and plan on never skiing at either. Mainly due to location (MRG) and cost (The illustrious Deer Valley)

 

[Goose]

Given that you are redragging up almost the same comments you made a couple of days ago when everyone else has moved on I offer you a thought experiment.

Imagine there was no such thing as snowboards. Imagine the yoof you seem to despise being on the hill in the same numbers on monoskis or twintips or maybe FIS SL skis get a cult following and a few if them buzz people by literally skiing circles around them. Do you ban each type of equipment where a few participants seem to be unruly or do you target the individuals? What about when the yoof get on to skiing on your own regular joe skis?

You are no more right than me saying I have a problem with BMW drivers and I wish BMWs weren't there based on my anecdotal experience that some BMW drivers drive like A holes. They would drive equally badly in Audis or Tauruses or in the the case of the urban tank X5 drivers blocking roads outside a school near you, in a beat up minivan.

Bit unfair on the normal BMW drivers who are courteous, perhaps like some of the high performance features of their ride and can't avoid some of the consequences of their chosen equipment e.g. RWD on a slick road.

firstly just to clear up to anyone , I don't ski with a state of mind that I despise boarding in such a way that it ruins my time. Nor in such a way where as its all I think about and look for nor look for reasons to make it upset me. In fact as Ive mentioned in earlier post, I accept that its there and I treat everyone with same respect and etiquettes regardless which sport they participate in. I blame the individuals and even stated its not the art or sport of boarding itself but is only the fact that there are more (from my experiences) of those groups and/or individuals within boarding who tend to display less than better behaviors and etiquettes.. But because of that it then results in more unpleasant feelings about boarding.

Picture kind of like having an even at any given place involving the public. Lets say that even is a music venue. Now lets suppose in one place was Tony Bennett or perhaps Adel or something of that nature where as the general audience could be a high percentage of older and/or also perhaps a bit more refined (for lack of a better word) by nature,. While in another similar place was a newer up and coming popular rock band where as the general audience could be a high percentage of much younger and far less refined crowd. The later of the two will indeed require much more security and the general behavior will be much more lacking in general good etiquettes. Thats a fact and I know this because I happen to work at a place that occasionally offers a venue of similar nature to those mentioned. And there is absolutely a need for greater security and many more problems that arise even with the greater amount of security. This is not discrimination. Its just fact and the nature of the beast that one type of thing brings with it a higher percentage of a given demographic while the other not so much. Is it fair the better behaved and non problematic people at the rock band performance have to be subject to higher security and more rules and regulations and be more watched over? And also generally be labeled or considered/stereotyped a rowdier far less behaved crowd? Its just truth because that's what it is.
So while not nearly to the same extremes I just used to make a point, the same (on a lessor scale) holds true imo with boarding vs skiing. One leans noticeably enough more in one direction than the other does. And that one imo is boarding.

Nothing about that is discriminatory at all (even the hypothetical more extreme examples I gave) nor a wrong way of thinking. Its just fact obtained via personal experiences and history. Im not trying to push my opinion per say but only trying to defend against those who feel the need to force this opinion out as though its so wrong and also not fair and is discriminatory. Its not any of those at all. Imo its simply an assessment based on factual experiences.

 

[mdf]

Lets say that even is a music venue.

My wife and I go to a lot of concerts. There is a lot of behavior that really bothers me. People who text or hold their phone up to take poor-quality videos, and DO NOT KNOW HOW TO TURN DOWN THE BRIGHTNESS!

People who sing along VERY LOUDLY behind me. People who hold a continuous conversation throughout the whole event -- why are they even attending?

You can get so wound up wishing that other people were different that you keep yourself from enjoying the day.

I really try to let it go, because I am not going to fix it, and when I fixate on it, I start paying more attention to them than to the performers. I am not always successful in letting go, but when I am able to, it helps me enjoy the concert.

 

[focker]

My wife and I go to a lot of concerts. There is a lot of behavior that really bothers me. People who text or hold their phone up to take poor-quality videos, and DO NOT KNOW HOW TO TURN DOWN THE BRIGHTNESS!

People who sing along VERY LOUDLY behind me. People who hold a continuous conversation throughout the whole event -- why are they even attending?
.

Is this the old people concerts Goose described or the wild disrespectful young person concerts?

 

[fatbob]

Oh younger people also go to Adele concerts - they just are the sort of younger people who don't really like music and do things like go to gigs for the purposes of name dropping and boasting and being prematurely middle aged. See we can all do prejudice.

 

[Goose]

Fwiw when I say what I spoke of is not discriminatory I mean that in the sense that it doesn't relate to the word the way we've come to automatically know it as a negative or bad thing. To discriminate does not have to be wrong or bad. Its only to realize difference or distinguish.
If you like specific music vs other music you don't ,,,,,,,you are discriminating. You hear and know the differences between types of music and so your choosing one you like over the others you dont. That's not morally wrong to do. And so if you notice there is a difference in something and due to that difference you then prefer one or like/dislike one then its being discriminatory but its not at all always being morally wrong to do so. If I recognize from experience that there is more of a given type of behavior displayed among a given group, or while at a given place, or while doing a given thing and it is easy enough to distinguish the differences then that is being discriminatory but its not a bad thing. Its simply a recognition of differences that presents itself to you and often you don't even have to look for it. Often if discussing it your only simply stating what it is you see and experience. Imo that's not discrimination in the very negative way we often automatically assume it to mean.

 

[François Pugh]

I think I would be happier without snow boards. The snowboarder's would be on skis, and thus would not have their boards knocking into my skis on the lift. Sharing a lift with a boarder and having his board encroach on my skis's space is the only negative I can recall from my experience. I don't mind skiing around them when they are sitting on the slope.

For the record, at my local hill the boarders are just as civil and responsible as the skiers. Maybe that's because they have a good rapport with the hill manager and several ski patrollers who are also snow boarders.

 

[fatbob]

Often if discussing it your only simply stating what it is you see and experience. Imo that's not discrimination in the very negative way we often automatically assume it to mean.

But the problem is that you seem to associating only positive attributes to the things you like ( "refined" for a Tony Bennett concert rather than say "coffin dodging") and negative attributes to things you don't. Have you ever been in a mosh pit at say a punk gig? These things have an etiquette if their own - it's just not your idea of etiquette. It's not unusual people seek to validate their choices and seek social approval for them all the time. It doesn't make anyone's choices the right and proper thing and other's choices lesser.

 

[mdf]

wild disrespectful young person

mostly them -- you know, youngsters in their 40's.

 

[Goose]

But the problem is that you seem to associating only positive attributes to the things you like ( "refined" for a Tony Bennett concert rather than say "coffin dodging") and negative attributes to things you don't. Have you ever been in a mosh pit at say a punk gig? These things have an etiquette if their own - it's just not your idea of etiquette. It's not unusual people seek to validate their choices and seek social approval for them all the time. It doesn't make anyone's choices the right and proper thing and other's choices lesser.

But I think you may be confusing etiquettes within a group that has such desired etiquettes among them vs poor etiquettes from a percentage within a larger group who is not in general looking to behave similarly nor in a place where its expected. A punk gig at a mosh pit might be a place where people expect and participate in different etiquettes associated with that event. But when we talk most anything else that caters to the general public (without specialty) such as skiing and boarding (among many things) it is expected by most people that etiquettes would not be that of intentional irregular and/or poor behavior. e.g. - you wouldn't normally go to a ski resort with those same etiquettes displayed at the punk gig nor would the masses of people at the resort be expecting this. So your sort of speaking imo of a different discussion. So when there may be a percentage of lessor etiquettes displayed by enough people while in a basic environment which includes the general masses that then becomes distinguishable and is noticed as poor behavior.

Some things like cursing, cutting lines, poor mountain etiquettes, lack of reasonable common courtesies on the slopes and off and mores stuff of similar nature while skiing/boarding in general would all be things we would considered poor and/or less than desirable behavior which becomes distinguishable in the environment of a ski resort. I dont think that would be only myself suggesting this but probably most people who ski and board.
And Ive maintained...I feel that there is more of that (though by no mean a landslide) but more of it displayed within the boarding community than the skiing community. Ive also explained why I believe that may be the case as you know.

And thanks for keeping the conversation civil with me here even if we don't agree. Its not an easy discussion to have without having a bit much harsher talk.