Non Region Specific Most overrated ski destinations (according to you)

[SSSdave]

I have to say, Heavenly is the most disappointing place I've skied.
So much hype about how awesome it is, but every time I've skied there it was only okay.
I feel like its built on a house of mirrors, and we're always skiing over to that spot that looks awesome, only to find that its just about the same as where we came from. Now, the views are spectacular, but I can honestly say I've never had a spectacular day at Heavenly, and I've skied there several times in the hopes of finding the gem people talk about.

@Tricia, not surprised about your experiences with Heavenly, a massive mountain with 3k+ verticals like Mammoth with awkward navigation issues and because it is well east of the Sierra Crest, has often comparatively less snow than at other Tahoe region resorts. What people like about the resort is also likely to be a result of their own skiing skill level and style. I find that most Tahoe skiers have a poor understanding of how dramatically elevation affects snow quality between resorts mainly because they have only ever evaluated resorts with resort trail maps and haven't thought out why snow quality at resorts varies so much depending on elevation, terrain, and exposure. You and Phil ought to understand that clearly since you ski Mt Rose.

As a long time Sierra Nevada backpacker, looking at topographic maps has been second nature for decades. In the 1980s when I mostly skied the north Tahoe resorts from a Tahoe Donner group cabin, I latched on to numbers guy Tony Crocker's resort snow analysis web site some of which has been incorporated into:
https://bestsnow.net/

Still probably the best read for experienced advanced skiers interested in understanding snow quality issues but certain to put to sleep many minds that grate against data overload. That is also why within a few years, I began skiing mainly at Kirkwood given its higher elevations.

I'll send you and Phil printouts of maps I created for Northstar, Kirkwood, and Heavenly that are fancier than the ones I gave you two for Mount Rose and Diamond Peak. Although I mainly ski Heavenly now, I really don't know the full resort well like @Tony because I tend to avoid the California side, don't have an all mountain terrain orientation because I don't own better skis for such, and like you don't have the body weight to make tanking through such easier.

What I can state, is that the Nevada side of Heavenly, once it has enough base, on days after midweek deeper storms with lower snow levels, probably has the most potential untracked, and long lasting spaced tree skiing on fresh powder days of any Tahoe resort. And a key reason why that is the case is that there is much terrain out of sight, thus out of mind of the vast majority that only ever ski what they see. And like Mt Rose and Kirkwood, upper Heavenly runs have superior snow quality. The new North Bowl Quad Express lift adds much.

 

[Novaloafah]

Surely we should put Steamboat on the list for that epic 60 pg thread - “should an intermediate go west.?” In the end, Whiteface was deemed superior.

That's what hooked me to the original forum. As an intermediate, the info people put out about so many great sounding areas was amazing. It went on and on and got both salty and funny. Closely followed by poles, strap or no strap?

 

[k2rider]

That was a great thread, but I do somewhat agree with the sentiment of why the poster was disappointed. Picture this scenario:

- Skier able to go to Whiteface at any time midweek on a moment's notice when there's a powder day (albeit an Eastern powder day).

- Said skier has an extremely limited budget and a trip out west requires immense saving, budgeting, and sacrifice to get flights west, book lodging, rent car, and take the days off work.

- Upon arriving at Steamboat they hit it low tide. Off-piste coverage is limited and not really skiable and groomer quality is average at best.

In that scenario, I could see why the Epic-poster.was disappointed . I went to Steamboat 6 years or so ago in late January and I'll say conditions were pretty much Eastern. There was virtually no snow in the trees, and while the groomers were good, I was still wondering if it was really worth the $$$$$ vs east. In my case though, I can't really just hit Whiteface at the drop of a hat either, so as long as I have the $ in the budget, I'll play the odds and go West.

I always say that one's perception of a ski area is predominantly based on the conditions at said resort during your time there. I had been to Steamboat many times and had never been shut out on getting powder on any of our trips. I took some friends there and not only did it not snow during our stay, it hadn't snowed for weeks. It was fun for about a day and a half. Those buddies still vacation with me but refuse to go back to Steamboat. I feel the same way about Whistler. All I ever get there is RAIN. I won't go back in Winter, Summer is a whole 'nother deal.

On the flip side, I went to tiny Beaver Mountain (5 ancient fixed grip lifts, a couple so uncomfortable I had to sit sideways to save my back) in Utah last season on a 19" powder day and had one of my favorite days ever in 41 years on the mountain. I love that place!!

 

[James]

That's what hooked me to the original forum. As an intermediate, the info people put out about so many great sounding areas was amazing. It went on and on and got both salty and funny. Closely followed by poles, strap or no strap?

Yeah it was astounding how people can reel off dozens of trail names

 

[Pajarito-bred]

I always say that one's perception of a ski area is predominantly based on the conditions at said resort during your time there. I had been to Steamboat many times and had never been shut out on getting powder on any of our trips. I took some friends there and nit only did it not snow during your stay, it hadn't snowed for weeks. It was fun for about a day and a half. Those buddies still vacation with me but refuse to go back to Steamboat. I feel the same way about Whistler. All I ever get there is RAIN. I won't go back in Winter, Summer is a whole 'nother deal.

On the flip side, I went to tiny Beaver Mountain (5 ancient fixed grip lifts, a couple so uncomfortable I had to sit sideways to save my back) in Utah last season on a 19" powder day and had one of my favorite days ever in 41 years on the mountain. I love that place!!

I absolutely would love to add a stop at Beaver mountain on my next trip North. Sure, I would have to buy a ticket, I don't get any reciprocal pass days there from my local hill..... I agree with most of the negative comments above, about those mega-resorts I've visited, but the potential for great days still outweighs my memory of a few crowded, poor-condition days.

Yep, that's just the nature of the sport, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes unlucky. Just gotta keep on rolling the dice! Every trip, every season, is going to have a bit of both, no matter how thorough the planning is, no matter how optimistic the weather forecast (most storm forecasts only tell you about the high winds one day prior).

Expectation: POWDER! Reality: New snow that might sometimes be powder.....

I've heard that the secret to happiness is low expectations, but who wants to live like that? When you've gotten inundated with marketing hype for Park City, Vail or Whistler, you might expect a brochure-like bluebird day skiing freely down a slope shared only with friends, when reality is more consistent with navigating among hordes of shiny-suited tourists zig-zagging upredictably.

Yeah it really sucks to plan a big trip and get skunked by lousy conditions when the expectation is great powder days, I've had both extremes this season. I was pretty sure a day at Snowbird this year was a top-10 day of my ski life! (wait, I've been skiing for 56 years, does that mean I only get a top-ten day once every 5+ years? I don't like that math) Sure does work better to also have a local hill where I can ski when conditions and crowding are best, and know the mountain well -- I just pick some other sport on those "other" days.

This week I've skied two CO mega-resorts (Vail and BC) and two small areas (Cooper and Monarch). I expected crowds and lines at the resorts, and slow old lifts/short vertical at the small areas, got exactly that. Both the grooming and the snow in the glades were better at the smaller areas, possibly due to lower skier-traffic. The last couple of weeks have been a bit short of fresh snow, still hoping that will change tomorrow.

 

[Cheizz]

It's interesting to see that most North Americans have a different frame of reference regarding the weight of the 'fresh snow' factor compared to my European view. I think this has something to do with the fact that in American resorts, one can ski the entire mountain, including off the groomers, when ski patrol deems it safe and opens the area up.

As you know, in Europe this is very different. There are ski areas that have untouched powder just next to the groomers even days after the last snowfall. Groomer skiing is simply the norm for most people skiing in the Alps. And therefore - this is my hypothesis - snow conditions have less influence on how we perceive a ski area in the Alps. It just isn't as important to us (compared to other factors, such as layout, lift speeds, etc.) as it seems to be to you. It can be a factor, of course, but - for me and I know for a lot of others here - not the most important one.

It is a factor, though, when a snowstorm actually worsens our experience in a ski area. For example, because it draws crazy crowds (Ski Arlberg, Quattre Vallées), creates complete whiteouts that you can't get out of by hopping to the next valley over (some high alpine one-dimensional French resorts), or very easily causes lifts to close screwing up the connections.

If a ski area is fun in bad snow conditions (hardly any natural snow) or in snowy conditions (during the storm), that's when a ski area supersedes expectations for me.

 

[James]

4Vallées you can go to Bruson by gondola. Then there’s La Tsoumaz, Tracouet-Nendaz, Vesonnaz, Thyon. From Verbier/Medran you’d eliminate Vesonnaz and Thyon because too open to get to and no lift option. But to get to La Tsoumaz you just hop on the bus to Savoleyres. Less than 15 minutes.
Fair amount of tree level skiing though. Some reachable by only a short above tree section or lifts.

Tree altitude is much higher in North America.

 

[crosscountry]

It's interesting to see that most North Americans have a different frame of reference regarding the weight of the 'fresh snow' factor compared to my European view. I think this has something to do with the fact that in American resorts, one can ski the entire mountain, including off the groomers, when ski patrol deems it safe and opens the area up.

As you know, in Europe this is very different. There are ski areas that have untouched powder just next to the groomers even days after the last snowfall. Groomer skiing is simply the norm for most people skiing in the Alps. And therefore - this is my hypothesis - snow conditions have less influence on how we perceive a ski area in the Alps. It just isn't as important to us (compared to other factors, such as layout, lift speeds, etc.) as it seems to be to you. It can be a factor, of course, but - for me and I know for a lot of others here - not the most important one.

It is a factor, though, when a snowstorm actually worsens our experience in a ski area. For example, because it draws crazy crowds (Ski Arlberg, Quattre Vallées), creates complete whiteouts that you can't get out of by hopping to the next valley over (some high alpine one-dimensional French resorts), or very easily causes lifts to close screwing up the connections.

If a ski area is fun in bad snow conditions (hardly any natural snow) or in snowy conditions (during the storm), that's when a ski area supersedes expectations for me.

You're probably right that in Europe, the perception of good/bad ski resorts are more static than in north America.

Apart from the criteria skiers use (layout vs snow quality), typical European skiers go for a 1 week holiday and stay put in 1 resort. So unless the sun never came out in the entire week, you do get to see the resort in both good and bad weather.

Whilst in north America, we tend to do road trips of some sort. Whether that's traveling from resort to resort, or just visiting completely disparate resorts from the same hotel in town, people don't wait around for the sun to come out on 1 single resort. So they only got a much small window to see a resort in certain weather.

Having said that, we Americans don't say a mountain is "overrated" casually. We know our experience are colored by weather. We keep returning hoping the weather will be better the next time we visit. If you read more carefully, you'll see most only say a mountain is overrated after qualifying it with "in n(>1) visits".

2 mountains I had poor experience in are Park City and Telluride. But I've only visited once in each. And I can see from the layout how it would be different in better condition. So I'm still hoping I may have better luck next time I go.

 

[raisingarizona]

I just don’t get the desire for lots of vert.

I’ve skied in Europe. Now we’re talking about vert! But inevitably, the snow condition changes lower down vs high up. What’s silky smooth up high turns into mash potato lower down. Or the lower section is nice and soft but you have to get through some boiler plate up high before. I much rather focus on where the snow is nice. 1000’ vert is often the max range of a “zone” of consistent snow. Anything more than that, there’s some snow condition I‘d rather skip.

Having larger vert gives you options to find the good snow where a limited amount of vert gets you stuck with whatever they have. You rarely will get perfect conditions top to bottom with 4k + of vertical.

 

[raisingarizona]

I think Jackson Hole is the most overrated. I had way bigger expectations and the place falls short in almost every way. I was impressed with the airport and the views from the airport.

The inbounds terrain skis small.
The scenery is mediocre.
The town is average.
The $35 parking.
The wait for the tram/gondolas.
The bias location and advertising of their summit snow plot.
The village is limited.
The sidecountry lines are short shots.
The lack of good tree skiing.

The inbounds terrain skis huge if you're young and like hucking and steep stuff. This is why it's so hyped. It's not as great for casual older skiers.
The scenery to the south is beautiful looking out from the summit towards Cody, No Name and Rendezvous.
The town is like a cowboy Disneyworld. It's not real.
The parking has become a total shitshow.
The lines have become shit, especially when a lot of places are dry and Jxn is getting hammered. The tram used to be so awesome when you could get <2 box waits and ski untracked instant refill storm days.
The Raymer study plot makes a lot more sense than the summit. the summit gets wind blasted.
The village is so fancy now it makes me uncomfortable. I miss the Village Cafe days.
The side country has massive shots, you don't know it if that's your take on it. 4 Pines and the long steep lines in Granite can't be matched in practically any side country off a ski area in the USA.
There isn't that classic sort of Steamboat tree skiing for sure but the widely spaced trees make for some amazing skiing and the mountain skis well top to bottom on storm days.

 

[Bad Bob]

Very under rated (if it is possible) Sun Valley. We just don't hear a lot about this place and we should.
If you go with the idea of skiing trees, side country, and loads of fresh snow you missed the memo.
If you go with the intent of skiing lots of steep groomers with long vertical surrounded by a bunch of gray beards that probably ski better than you, your in the right place.
Is it over priced? Of course it is a big time ski area.
Is the lift system modern? Yep! Chairlifts were invented here.
On mountain food? Really good in lots of places and still over priced.
Grooming? If you complain you are too damned picky.
Public transit? Very good, free, and convenient.
The village? Ketchum, ID is a grown up ski town.

If you go and don't like it, please complain to somebody else.

 

[scott43]

If I go out west Sun Valley will be the destination...

 

[crosscountry]

Having larger vert gives you options to find the good snow where a limited amount of vert gets you stuck with whatever they have. You rarely will get perfect conditions top to bottom with 4k + of vertical.

Sorry, I'm afraid you completely miss the context. Read the message I quoted again before responding.

The original complain was for the lack of CONTINUOUS vert! He moans about the big vert was "broken" into smaller chunks!

You're right, one doesn't need continuous verts to ski a fraction of it that has the best condition. You just need to find the part that's good. So a broken 3000 feet skis no less good than 3x 1000'. You basically confirmed what I wrote.

 

[crosscountry]

If you go with the idea of skiing trees, side country, and loads of fresh snow you missed the memo.
If you go with the intent of skiing lots of steep groomers with long vertical

The way you describe Sun Valley makes it clear why it doesn't get a lot of mention.

It's a very one dimension mountain: STEEP groomers!

It suits one kind of skiers. You'd probably hear about it if you ask about it specifically. I think a lot of people know about it. Those who like it.

But for many others, or groups who wants variety to suits a wide range of ability and preference, Sun Valley wouldn't be the top of the recommendation.

Another very critical point of SV is it doesn't have much easy terrain. So any family with learning members will be better off going somewhere else.

It's easy to see why it would be near the top of overrated list. More people don't like it than those wo do.

 

[Bad Bob]

@crosscountry would disagree with several of the points you make on Sun Valley. I would not consider myself an authority on the place but have been there probably 4 weeks over the years.
One dimensional, the bumps absolutely rock and would rank well with any ski area, MJ and Taos included. To catch the bowls with new snow is pretty sublime, and the whole new area south of Seattle Ridge gives SV an entire new face.
There are a ton of blues on Baldy, and would not be surprised if Dollar Mountain ranks up there in the total number of beginners taught. Dollar has some very good beginners terrain. Another nice feature to SV is you will rarely get stuck in a long lift line thanks to its' isolation. Anybody who skis out west owes themselves a trip there at least once.

 

[James]

Yeah never been to Sun Valley but it’s big on moguls for a lot of people. Seems to me it’s like saying Japan isn’t big on moguls. Few people fly there for moguls probably, but they’re big part of Japanese skiing.

 

[crosscountry]

@crosscountry would disagree with several of the points you make on Sun Valley. I would not consider myself an authority on the place but have been there probably 4 weeks over the years.
One dimensional, the bumps absolutely rock and would rank well with any ski area, MJ and Taos included. To catch the bowls with new snow is pretty sublime, and the whole new area south of Seattle Ridge gives SV an entire new face.
There are a ton of blues on Baldy, and would not be surprised if Dollar Mountain ranks up there in the total number of beginners taught. Dollar has some very good beginners terrain. Another nice feature to SV is you will rarely get stuck in a long lift line thanks to its' isolation. Anybody who skis out west owes themselves a trip there at least once.

OK, I left out the bumps. My bad.

But let's be honest, the "tons of blues" will all be blacks on any other mountains!

Dollar Mountain maybe a beginner mountain (I confess haven't skied that part), but where do the beginners go when they leave Dollar Mountain? Majority of the "greens" in Baldy are far too steep for progressing beginners. Forget about the blues, see above.

"Bowls with new snow" maybe sublime, but it's pretty darn rare, as SV doesn't get snow the same rate as many of the other destination mountains. Moreover, you said it, "new snow", for whatever fallen doesn't stay fluffy for long under that famous Sun!

I've only been there...twice. Not in a big hurry to return. There're a lot of other places I'd rather repeat my visit. I wouldn't say it's "overrated". It's just not my preference.

The town is pretty cool, actually quite lovely. While I'm not in a hurry to return for downhill skiing. I may however, return for xc skiing. I may even ski downhill while I'm there. It's good enough for a couple odd day or two, especially if I'm lucky enough to catch one of those rare "sublime" days.

 

[crosscountry]

Few people fly there for moguls probably, but they’re big part of Japanese skiing.

People don't go to Japan for mogul because they can get moguls elsewhere easily?

 

[markojp]

So much of of Under and Overrating of resorts has to do with the snow conditions when you experienced the area.

... or the day of the week.

 

[raisingarizona]

Sorry, I'm afraid you completely miss the context. Read the message I quoted again before responding.

The original complain was for the lack of CONTINUOUS vert! He moans about the big vert was "broken" into smaller chunks!

You're right, one doesn't need continuous verts to ski a fraction of it that has the best condition. You just need to find the part that's good. So a broken 3000 feet skis no less good than 3x 1000'. You basically confirmed what I wrote.

Sorry, I'm afraid you completely miss the context. Read the message I quoted again before responding.

The original complain was for the lack of CONTINUOUS vert! He moans about the big vert was "broken" into smaller chunks!

You're right, one doesn't need continuous verts to ski a fraction of it that has the best condition. You just need to find the part that's good. So a broken 3000 feet skis no less good than 3x 1000'. You basically confirmed what I wrote.

No, you said big vert is overrated. I'm replying that it's not because it gives you more options to find the good snow whether it's a 1000 vert chunk or a 5k vert chunk. More vert opens up those options. Now go take a lap and reread my post.