[maintenance tuning] Keeping the edges sharp in-between tune ups?

[James]

So, I went for the Side of Beast. I just ordered from Tognar. Later tonight I'll order at least one of the diamond stones following @KingGrump 's suggestions to get started.I like how the stone is firmly kept in place, and the videos of the svst looked like something I would struggle a bit with, using the spring clamp. I got all three angles I could encounter for quite some time (1, 2 and 3 degrees).

I decided to decouple this purchase from the portable bench / vise one for now, so I don't get hang up. I am going through the thread recommended by @KingGrump as well, for that.

This is soooo exciting. Thank you all!

Nice! That's a good tool.
Sidewall scraper?

 

[Mendieta]

Nice! That's a good tool.
Sidewall scraper?

Not yet. I'll do some touch ups first and simple maintenance. Once I graduate I'll see if I change an edge angle and it looks like I'll need to remove the sidewall for that, but I'll rather start somewhere

I agree, it's 80 bucks but at most I'll need $10 to add an extra angle for 4*, and it'll last a decade or longer!

 

[Mendieta]

Get a 200 grit (100 mm long, red) Moonflex diamond stone and you are all set.

Pulled the trigger on that one, too!

The biggest question in my mind is whether I need a very fine file in order to keep the edges really sharp. But I need to start with something Next I'll turn into the bench/vise.

 

[James]

Pulled the trigger on that one, too!

The biggest question in my mind is whether I need a very fine file in order to keep the edges really sharp. But I need to start with something Next I'll turn into the bench/vise.

Yes, but it doesn't have to be super fine. No file, no sharp. - Little known Bob Marley song from his days in Verbier and Aspen.
You absolutely need a sidewall scraper. Number one cause of frustration is the sidewall. If it's not recessed even the diamond stone will hit it. You could have someone do it for you, but it's done by hand. What type of ski are we talking? Cap, laminate? Easiest is laminate with abs sidewall. When there's rubber sandwiched at the tip and tail it never really cuts well. Stockli's baby seal skin comes to mind.
Cap skis can smell like dead animal when pulling the sidewall and are a bit like scraping Swix CH4 (or similar very hard) wax without heating.

Ok, Reliable Racing has this one on sale for $8.45. Places have been charging $40 for it. I think I paid $20 nearly 20 years ago. Hell, it's less than the replacement blade.

But, I would never recommend it in general as it's a bit tricky to get the hang of. It does work, I only replaced it for reg use 2 yrs ago. Still carry for travel. As it's so cheap, it's hard not to say get it and find someone to show you how to set it up. You want the front slightly lower ( closer to sidewall) than the back. You apply a slight downward twist when pulling. Cap skis don't pull nice curley shavings usually. Overlapping short strokes. Sometimes quite agressively. It can be loud and a little messy.

I may get another.

https://www.reliableracing.com/detail.cfm?edp=10568749

 

[Mendieta]

Yes, but it doesn't have to be super fine. No file, no sharp.

Thank you so much, any recommendations?

What type of ski are we talking? Cap, laminate?

• 2017-2018 Head Rally
• 2016-2017 and 2015-2016 Dynastar Powertrack (2 pairs)
• Also a kids head ski that I will probably not touch, since my daughter skis very little and was recently tuned

I will try learn more about the sidewall scrapping. Silly question but I have had my skis tuned at least once, and they don't seem to have the sidewall removed. Why is it that the shop doesn't do it butI would? Or do you just scrap the bit close to the edge? (do you expose the ski core when removing the sidewall material?) An instruction video or thread would do, I am sure this is pretty standard ... cheers!

 

[Jacques]

So, I went for the Side of Beast. I just ordered from Tognar. Later tonight I'll order at least one of the diamond stones following @KingGrump 's suggestions to get started.I like how the stone is firmly kept in place, and the videos of the svst looked like something I would struggle a bit with, using the spring clamp. I got all three angles I could encounter for quite some time (1, 2 and 3 degrees).

I decided to decouple this purchase from the portable bench / vise one for now, so I don't get hang up. I am going through the thread recommended by @KingGrump as well, for that.

This is soooo exciting. Thank you all!

The stainless glide plate is the best. Be sure to sand over the edges though. The finish is pretty good on that plate right out of the gate though.
As for the Plane BEAST (which is aluminum) it's going to need a lot of sanding to round and smooth the edges.
I really wish they made a seven degree at BEAST with a stainless plate! I guess a handy person could "glue" on onto it.

 

[Jacques]

Thank you so much, any recommendations?

• 2017-2018 Head Rally
• 2016-2017 and 2015-2016 Dynastar Powertrack (2 pairs)
• Also a kids head ski that I will probably not touch, since my daughter skis very little and was recently tuned

I will try learn more about the sidewall scrapping. Silly question but I have had my skis tuned at least once, and they don't seem to have the sidewall removed. Why is it that the shop doesn't do it butI would? Or do you just scrap the bit close to the edge? (do you expose the ski core when removing the sidewall material?) An instruction video or thread would do, I am sure this is pretty standard ... cheers!

There a many of these videos on YT. This one is short.

One more.

 

[James]

Thank you so much, any recommendations?

• 2017-2018 Head Rally
• 2016-2017 and 2015-2016 Dynastar Powertrack (2 pairs)
• Also a kids head ski that I will probably not touch, since my daughter skis very little and was recently tuned

I will try learn more about the sidewall scrapping. Silly question but I have had my skis tuned at least once, and they don't seem to have the sidewall removed. Why is it that the shop doesn't do it butI would? Or do you just scrap the bit close to the edge? (do you expose the ski core when removing the sidewall material?) An instruction video or thread would do, I am sure this is pretty standard ... cheers!

No, you just remove enough sidewall so it's below the metal. Shops don't do it because spinning discs and moving belts blow right through it. So, no need. Any shop that is only tuning by hand will definitely do it. Shops will do it to set skis up for racing. They will also shape the sidewall to topsheet area. This is hand work, and costs money but race oriented shops have this on the menu. They also might blend the square "shelf" above the edge into the side through planing, sanding, and even using acetone to melt and smooth the abs a bit. ( Start Haus used to do this) All that with a base grind and edge angles set up are when a "tune" costs $150.

- For now all that matters is you can file and sharpen the edge.
The Rallys are nice to sidewall plane. The Powertracks I think are cap and laminate construction, so more of a pain.

Files however, and stones are bothered by plastic.. You can feel and hear this difference between cutting metal and trying to cut plastic. Now, a panzar file being very rough doesn't care so much. But one doesn't fine file with a panzar.

 

[Dwight]

That is the answer I was looking for

I saved the SVST tools in my Amazon Cart

I will get a 91 and a 92
I like the ease of this as a clamp
http://svst.com/Shop/SVST-Side-Edge-Bevelers/Cam-Lever-Clamp-for-SVAI.html

As for files.... Are these the way to go?
http://www.racewax.com/diaface-moonflex-diamond-stones-100-mm/

I am gonna bit the bullet and just get a vise, going for this one
https://www.amazon.com/Swix-World-Vise-Piece-Design/dp/B000EB5Q72

@SlideWright sells them too.

 

[James]

There a many of these videos on YT. This one is short.

One more.

That Sidecut brand is the Canadian one I was thinking about earlier. Do you have any of their tools?

If one wants to go to town on the sidewalls, there's this from Jim Shaffner. I once bought a pair of Kastle Fx's, 1st gen, that the previous owner had this done to it at Start Haus. Overkill for a non carving ski, but that ski was quite expensive when new so it got the best treatment. The downside was all the boot center marks had been sanded off the sidewall.

 

[mdf]

Yes, but it doesn't have to be super fine. No file, no sharp. - Little known Bob Marley song from his days in Verbier and Aspen.
You absolutely need a sidewall scraper. Number one cause of frustration is the sidewall. If it's not recessed even the diamond stone will hit it. You could have someone do it for you, but it's done by hand. What type of ski are we talking? Cap, laminate? Easiest is laminate with abs sidewall. When there's rubber sandwiched at the tip and tail it never really cuts well. Stockli's baby seal skin comes to mind.
Cap skis can smell like dead animal when pulling the sidewall and are a bit like scraping Swix CH4 (or similar very hard) wax without heating.

Ok, Reliable Racing has this one on sale for $8.45. Places have been charging $40 for it. I think I paid $20 nearly 20 years ago. Hell, it's less than the replacement blade.

But, I would never recommend it in general as it's a bit tricky to get the hang of. It does work, I only replaced it for reg use 2 yrs ago. Still carry for travel. As it's so cheap, it's hard not to say get it and find someone to show you how to set it up. You want the front slightly lower ( closer to sidewall) than the back. You apply a slight downward twist when pulling. Cap skis don't pull nice curley shavings usually. Overlapping short strokes. Sometimes quite agressively. It can be loud and a little messy.

I may get another.
View attachment 36690
https://www.reliableracing.com/detail.cfm?edp=10568749

That is cheap!
I have one from Kuu that I like a lot. I think it is longer, which makes it easier to control chatter. A lot more expensive though.

 

[Jacques]

That Sidecut brand is the Canadian one I was thinking about earlier. Do you have any of their tools?

If one wants to go to town on the sidewalls, there's this from Jim Shaffner. I once bought a pair of Kastle Fx's, 1st gen, that the previous owner had this done to it at Start Haus. Overkill for a non carving ski, but that ski was quite expensive when new so it got the best treatment. The downside was all the boot center marks had been sanded off the sidewall.

I just use a 7 degree with a panzar file for ski types. Takes some practice with attack angles etc. Needs to be a sharp fresh file section.
I usually hold it in such a way as to produce even a stronger than 7 degree angle.

 

[Eric267]

@Mendieta
Looks like your a Tahoe skier. These guys are legit! Went to one of the classes on bases and wax types a while back. Lots of good info.. It's free$$

 

[Plai]

@Eric267 thanks for the heads up on the ski tuning class. Looks like I'll be in the area and will be able to go.

 

[Blue Streak]

That Kant Twist thing looks big and clunky. Would like to see a picture of it in use.

I have this thing: http://www.slidewright.com/svst-pro-edge-beveler-clamp.php. I'm not really happy with it. With some stones it really doesn't clamp correctly.

I don't use mine either. It's a pain in the a$$.
I use a spring clamp instead.

 

[Mendieta]

The stuff is here! Yayyyy! Thank you all!

.

 

[Mendieta]

I want those rubber bands!

I know! I found them for like 7 bucks on Amazon, with a lot of reviews. A few people mentioned that they work fine for tuning in their reviews. With the rallies, they barely push the brakes under the base, but they do, and I can always use two. I got a ton of them. That worked well!

Next thing is a Vise and I'm good for a while. I've been reading the portable bench thread. I think I'll wait for a chance and get a portable bench, but I have no rush, as I found a bench outside the house I can use with a vise. Getting there!

Can you work on the edges with the base up as if you were waxing? Many thanks!

 

[mdf]

Can you work on the edges with the base up as if you were waxing? Many thanks!

Of course you can, but I find it much easier with the base facing away from me.

 

[Mendieta]

My first side edge touch up, yay. Wayyy cool! My set up is a bit primitive:

But hey, I put the BEAST to good use!

Yes, I need a vise, but hey. The side edges are smoother now. The first pass it sounded like scratching metals, the forth or fifth in each section already felt more "silent". That felt about right. I did pick up some of the orange plastic from the side. I tried a sharpie and came out clean. Meaning, it probably is a 2 degree, which is what I was using. And also what I requested when I had them tuned.

Soo cool. I can't thank you all enough!

 

[Jacques]

My first side edge touch up, yay. Wayyy cool! My set up is a bit primitive:

View attachment 36982

But hey, I put the BEAST to good use!

View attachment 36983

Yes, I need a vise, but hey. The side edges are smoother now. The first pass it sounded like scratching metals, the forth or fifth in each section already felt more "silent". That felt about right. I did pick up some of the orange plastic from the side. I tried a sharpie and came out clean. Meaning, it probably is a 2 degree, which is what I was using. And also what I requested when I had them tuned.

Soo cool. I can't thank you all enough!

Be sure to use plenty of fluid with that stone.
You surely need a vice and bench to go where you are going.