VW Scandal...It continues.

[Lorenzzo]

I didn't mean to disparage Ford, particularly the trucks, but they don't fit my needs as well as Audi and VW, absent their fraudulent dealings.

I could just as easily have said now I'm damaged because I'll have to drive a BMW crossover and look like an Orange County refugee.

 

[Dadskier]

Good article here. Not really anything new, but it covers all the bases:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news...es-2-0-liter-diesel-fixes-as-crisis-continues

 

[tball]

Flipping around AM radio the other day I heard one of the financial guys (Clark Howard?) saying he thought it made sense to buy a used VW diesel and keep it long-term given the depressed prices. Given that, I'm not sure I'd be selling mine if I owned one. It's kinda like a stock, no sense selling if a stock has been crushed and still has intrinsic value. Clearly these cars still have tremendous intrinsic value.

 

[Philpug]

Flipping around AM radio the other day I heard one of the financial guys (Clark Howard?) saying he thought it made sense to buy a used VW diesel and keep it long-term given the depressed prices. Given that, I'm not sure I'd be selling mine if I owned one. It's kinda like a stock, no sense selling if a stock has been crushed and still has intrinsic value. Clearly these cars still have tremendous intrinsic value.

I guess it makes sense..in theory but honestly I don't hear of anyone just dumping their TDI's at firesale pricing, TDI owners are too frugal to do that.

 

[Evansilver]

I guess it makes sense..in theory but honestly I don't hear of anyone just dumping their TDI's at firesale pricing, TDI owners are too frugal to do that.

Jane's been inundated with letters from class action law firms soliciting her TDI business (we have a 2009). Does it really make any difference if you join the class action or does everybody in the class get the same settlement whether you're represented or not, assuming you're not one of the initial named plaintiffs? I'm a recovering lawyer myself but this wasn't exactly my line of work.

 

[Muleski]

I guess it makes sense..in theory but honestly I don't hear of anyone just dumping their TDI's at firesale pricing, TDI owners are too frugal to do that.

We spent Thanksgiving with a bunch of friends who's now adult kids are scattered all over the U.S. One of our friends bought a new A3 TDI 18 months ago, which he runs through his business. Company car. He's decided that he's got to get out of it, as in his business, having it parked in front of his building, or at a client's would be a bad move. His business is very green, and very lucrative. The car is in perfect shape, fully booked up, comes with two sets of wheels, almost new snows. I can buy it for a deep discount. His CFO had suggested just dumping it, and not even thinking about what they'd get. So I can buy it quickly for probably $3K less that what they are fetching at auction. I need to do my homework, and talk to him early this week.

I'm really tempted to do it, as my gut tells me that they are not going to be retro-fitting them substantially, and from all that I hear, they won't be pulling them off the road. This guy is very will dialed in with the EPA, and his opinion is that the EPA and DOJ are looking at a ginormous fine, and contemplating how to use that to solve some much bigger environmental issues. He use the term "ginormous windfall" to describe the cash infusion. No doubt, VW/Audi cheated the system. No doubt the pollute. No doubt people all all over the place on either side of the fence in terms of their opinions. And as he said no doubt that if you looked at "best use" of those funds, it's NOT making these TDI's on the road than much cleaner.

I was very close to buying a TDI this summer. Then I swung the pendulum the other way after the news broke. This particular car has me intrigued, as we tend to buy them lightly used, and then keep them.

So a mint A3 TDI at less than 2/3's {and maybe less than that} of what the price would have been this summer? Thoughts?

Part of me thinks this is just wrong, part of me is always on the hunt for a deal. If my polluting TDI puts Bilions of dollars in the hands of the EPA to do great work, maybe I feel OK about that.

Am I off base for even contemplating this one?

 

[cantunamunch]

Part of me thinks this is just wrong, part of me is always on the hunt for a deal. If my polluting TDI puts Bilions of dollars in the hands of the EPA to do great work, maybe I feel OK about that.

Am I off base for even contemplating this one?

No, I don't think so, and I might have considered the same purchase.

If I lived in a high-ozone, notorious-smog area (which I do), I would feel morally wobbly about the ownership.

If I lived in a relatively rural area with geographic and weather conditions that didn't focus smog I would have no problem about the ownership. Those cars pollute way, way lower particulates, lower unburnt HCs and lower CO2 per hour of operation than any small marine diesel out there, for example. Ergo if I lived 50 miles east of where I do I would snap that car up in an instant.

 

[Eleeski]

No matter how one personally feels, the micro level of individual car buyer will have no measurable effect on smog. The macro level of whether diesels and specifically VW cheater diesels should be a significant portion of the fleet is relevant. The VW situation is realistically dealt with as the diesels are no longer sold. Whether the reduced CO2 and reduced fuel consumption of the diesel balances the increased NOX is still debatable.

The environment has a significant capacity to absorb and purify contamination. Unless you are in an eco visible position (like the person selling the Audi) go for the car you like - even if it is a cheater diesel. Trust that the future cars will be clean for when this one wears out (in the too near future if normal use patterns are in play)
Eric

 

[Dadskier]

Introducing the Stroemungstransformator!

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20151126/BLOG15/151129893?

 

[x10003q]

Buy the A3. If you do not buy it somebody else will and it will still be operating. You might as well benefit from the connection.

 

[scott43]

Introducing the Stroemungstransformator!

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20151126/BLOG15/151129893?

I suspect all that is is a flow restrictor..

 

[Alexzn]

Diesel essentially runs on oil, so the engines are more or less self lubricating. That's why diesels last forever. The modern diesel is a much less clear cut case as ironically the exhaust treatment systems may go way before the engine, and those are very expensive to fix.

 

[oldschoolskier]

For those that don't know I've had 2 TDI's the original '98 and a 2009. The 09 had issues (for me at least) 2 turbos and finally a dual belt failure the killed the engine just as the VWgate started. Dumped the TDI cheap (DOA) as the engine replacement would have been in the 6K CDN$ mark and picked up a off lease 2.5l Golf wagon cheap with low mileage. What stopped the purchase of another TDI running (or repair for that matter) was the constant failures was not enough highway mileage and too much city. This car as also taken a tree through the roof (thank you Sandy) and has other issues. I think it was saying I'm haunted.

The newer diesels seem to have more issues and consideration should be given to useage. 30 to 40K + highway miles per year will likely lead to less problems, do that in city short runs or lower mileage and you'll have problems.

As to the cheat, I think it only the tip of the iceberg and that all manufactures are cheating be it gas or diesel in some form or other. The real question becomes who is going to get hit besides VW before the higher bodies realise adjust need to be made to the adjust the standards before everyone gets thrown under the bus.

 

[James]

VW is sponsoring an Espn film on the Buffalo Bills 4 consecutive Super Bowl losses. Not sure what that means.

VW is a poorly run company. It's amazingly inefficient. 3x the number of workers for 10 percent more cars as Toyota and GM. A board that's a veritable soap opera. Piech appointed his ex nanny, now wife, to the board. (gone now). That alone should say something.
A company that doesn't listen to it's market execs- like North America.

A little research goes a long way. I didn't know any of this before looking into it. I didn't know Porsche was practically a hedge fund and nearly took over Vw a few years ago. The whole Porsche- Piech families feud. I posted all this and the sources and quotes on epic. There were people following Vw that predicted a major problem coming years ago due to it's management style.

But people seem to believe what they want to. Apparently Vw is a victim here. It's the epa's fault. What a joke. It's depressing to see actually. Willful ignorance expressed with pride.

 

[Philpug]

Arrogance is one word that comes to mind when I think of the VW brass. I really don't understand how they perceive the US market. They bring so many viable options to the cars shows then never bring them to our market. The "good will" of two gift cards that they are offering the TDI owners are as much self serving as they are for the consumer. I would like to see some sort of realistic buy back program that does not limit my options to just VW products because I didn't buy my JSW TDI because it was a VW, it was because it was a diesel wagon, I will look elsewhere for my next option. Subaru would be at the top of my list with the Outback getting 30+ MPG and I get a bit if a bigger car AND All Wheel Drive. With this debacle, VW also killed the Mazda diesel coming to the US.

 

[scott43]

The perception in Germany is that they get away with a lot over there. BMW and MB too. They're almost untouchable. They lobbied hard to avoid having BMW and MB be subject to emissions regs because their big cars are not able to meet them. I don't know if they succeeded. Big business bossing the gov't around.

 

[Philpug]

From USAToday: VW couldn't meet US Standards Not just 2-3 "rogue" employees but 450.

 

[scott43]

Yeah, there are powertrain teams. There isn't 2 kids writing code for multiple platforms/powertrains. I wouldn't have guessed 450, but I would have thought up to 100 would know. Think about how many powertrains and platforms are in VW. I figure teams of 5 or 10 per powertrain. And they have many more diesel options in Europe than what we get over here. I think there were 5 different diesel engine choices for the A3 over there. And likely the ECU code is different for each platform. So they'd all have to know what was in the code.

But as they say, if you have the option of speaking now and definitely losing your job, or getting caught in 2 years and maybe losing your job, we'll likely choose the latter more often than not.

 

[Living Proof]

Interesting new development is that VW has hired a "Claims Administrator" to develop a compensation program for owners of the diesel engines. The process will offer owners compensation without having to endure lengthy legal delays. No specifics yet, but, the below is a good read.

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...en-feinberg-to-handle-diesel-emissions-claims

 

[Dadskier]

Got my VW gift cards this week. Going to do some Christmas shopping today.