Transition weight for girls to women's skis

[Chickenmonkey]

My daughter is 5'3" and 95 pounds and an advanced skier with good technique. Are adult skis in her immediate future or will she need another year of junior skis?

She skied 148 cm jr twintip skis last year. No problems.

 

[Chickenmonkey]

Anybody?

 

[Philpug]

Not a blanket answer and it depends on ski. There are some advanced junior skis that are very good, like the Cochise /Enforcer Jr and the HEad Ethan Jr and some adult skis like the Invictus 85Ti and Astrals that go down into the 140's CM range. At 95lb...it also depends on how aggressive she is, does she ski lke she is 85lb or does she ski like she is 105lb?

 

[Carl Kuck]

Skis take energy to bend them in turns. Energy is defined as E = M Vsquared. Thus, speed of skiing is a bigger factor in creating energy than weight is. Thus endith the physics lesson.

 

[crgildart]

Skis take energy to bend them in turns. Energy is defined as E = M Vsquared. Thus, speed of skiing is a bigger factor in creating energy than weight is. Thus endith the physics lesson.

That's true but how much faster should a 90 pound person need to ski to properly bend a ski designed for a 160 pound person? I'm asking coming from a background where I was less than 110 pounds soaking wet when I graduated from high school. I'm putting my intermediate level 90 pound 14 year old boy on women's skis this season. They don't look like women's skis though so don't tell him. At his age I was skiing men's skis but in the lengths women skied them in.

That said, I agree a "good" junior ski is fine for 90-110 pound people of all ages and "most" levels. A more advanced skier would definitely want to look at a beefier ski, but available in suitable lengths.

 

[Chickenmonkey]

I think her technique will hold up to women's adult skis in the low 150s as long as they aren't super stiff. She skis things like High Beaver, Scott Chute at Alpine, Headwall at Squaw with ease. She's been on those 148 jr skis for 2 years now and is still growing.

She is more of a playful skier than a charger though. In her ski group of friends, she's the one with the best balance and technique (says her their instructor of 5+ years,) but she is likely to be at the back of the pack coming down the hill.

 

[Philpug]

I think her technique will hold up to women's adult skis in the low 150s as long as they aren't super stiff. She skis things like High Beaver, Scott Chute at Alpine, Headwall at Squaw with ease. She's been on those 148 jr skis for 2 years now and is still growing.

She is more of a playful skier than a charger though. In her ski group of friends, she's the one with the best balance and technique (says her their instructor of 5+ years,) but she is likely to be at the back of the pack coming down the hill.

I wouldn't hesitate to put her on some of the lighter metal less skis that are coming out for next season like the Nordicas and Armadas I mentioned along with the new K2 Thrilluvit, and some of the Atomic Vantages.

 

[Carl Kuck]

That's true but how much faster should a 90 pound person need to ski to properly bend a ski designed for a 160 pound person?

Normally, I wouldn't do students' homework for them but I'll make an exception. This ain't rocket science, but it is science...

OK, just for the sake of calculation, let's take a ski that's designed for a 160 pound person to ski at 20 MPH. For somebody that weighs 90 pounds, they'd have to be going roughly 26.67 MPH to have the same energy. I'll sell you the spreadsheet for $100, calculates energy for skiers' weights ranging from 80 to 200 pounds (every 10 pounds) and speeds from 10 to 40 MPH (every 2 MPH)...

 

[luliski]

My now 22 y.o. daughter, 5'2" and 95 lbs, stayed on her K2 Missy skis way too long (she doesn't like change). I think she was 19 when she finally agreed to a new pair of skis. She chose the Kenjas in a 149. Supposedly they're stiff, but they gave her confidence, especially once she also agreed to a new pair of boots.

 

[karlo]

There are some advanced junior skis that are very good, like the Cochise /Enforcer Jr and the HEad Ethan JrT

Seconded.

My daughter loved/loves her 160 cm Cochise Jr's. Three seasons ago, she demo'd a few women's skis and didn't like any, saying they were hard to turn. End of the following season, she demo'd again and liked a few, and got a pair she loved. This past season, she still loves them. And, once her younger brother is done with the Cochise's, she wants them back as her powder skis.

Short answer. Demo some women's skis. If your daughter is unhappy, then get a high end junior ski. Alternatively, if you have been regularly sizing up her skis each year, as she has grown, and she continues to grow since last year, then something like the 160 Cochise Jr will be a very safe bet.

 

[Chickenmonkey]

Great information here and I/she clearly has some options. Hope this will be helpful to others too.

 

[François Pugh]

Speed in place of weight will only go so far. If you have hero snow or soft snow then all is good, but if you are on hard pack snow or ice, you need sustained downwards pressure that will only come from weight to make the edges dig in. I would estimate the transition weight to be 100 lbs, some short (less than 150 cm) women's skis might be the exceptions.

 

[Philpug]

Great information here and I/she clearly has some options. Hope this will be helpful to others too.

Go see @Sierrajim at Blue Zone..if anyone local puts together great options for tweenagers it is him.

 

[Large Squirrel]

so my wife is short and small....5'1" and barely 100lbs with all her gear on. she's tried some jr skis that were too flexible for her and others that were too stiff. she had the volkl kenja's in 154 cm (I think) and 149 cm. even in the 149 cm, that ski has way too stiff for her. now she's on the volkl yummi's in 149 cm. she can flex that ski nicely and really work all parts of the ski, and she skis faster on the yummi's than she ever did on the kenja's.

ETA: moral of my story is just to experiment with both jr and adult skis and see what works.

 

[Philpug]

so my wife is short and small....5'1" and barely 100lbs with all her gear on. she's tried some jr skis that were too flexible for her and others that were too stiff. she had the volkl kenja's in 154 cm (I think) and 149 cm. even in the 149 cm, that ski has way too stiff for her. now she's on the volkl yummi's in 149 cm. she can flex that ski nicely and really work all parts of the ski, and she skis faster on the yummi's than she ever did on the kenja's.

ETA: moral of my story is just to experiment with both jr and adult skis and see what works.

This is the niche that the Yumi fit in.

 

[crgildart]

Normally, I wouldn't do students' homework for them but I'll make an exception. This ain't rocket science, but it is science...

OK, just for the sake of calculation, let's take a ski that's designed for a 160 pound person to ski at 20 MPH. For somebody that weighs 90 pounds, they'd have to be going roughly 26.67 MPH to have the same energy. I'll sell you the spreadsheet for $100, calculates energy for skiers' weights ranging from 80 to 200 pounds (every 10 pounds) and speeds from 10 to 40 MPH (every 2 MPH)...

Sounds reasonable for tipping on a smooth and consistent surface. It's the unweighting and reweighting where a stiffer ski versus a softer ski wreak havoc on a person vastly underweight for that ski. In fact, I'd argue that the additional speed and additional forces and recoil generated would cause the lightweight to get bounced around more on a stiffer ski at higher speeds. Now, a stronger legged, stronger skier of lighter weight cold leverage that to their advantage much better than the typical intermediate skier.

 

[Large Squirrel]

In fact, I'd argue that the additional speed and additional forces and recoil generated would cause the lightweight to get bounced around more on a stiffer ski at higher speeds. Now, a stronger legged, stronger skier of lighter weight cold leverage that to their advantage much better than the typical intermediate skier.

and this is the problem here for most recreational skiers. skill set aside, a major factor of generating speed for any skier is their potential energy (mass *acc due to gravity * vertical drop distance) at the top of the hill (this factor could be the most significant). a lightweight skier is at a distinct disadvantage from the get-go due to their lack of potential energy. that lightweight recreational skier usually cannot generate sufficient speed and energy to flex the entire length of a stiff (to them) ski to be able to get bounced out of one turn into the next. based on my limited observations, the opposite occurs. the lightweight skier barely flexes the tip/tail of the ski but yet feels stable through the snow surface (firm snow/ice and chopped-up crud). I don't know if this is always the case, but it's what I have noticed.

 

[Carl Kuck]

I think field research and testing is in order... Now, where can we get some accelerometers?

 

[Muleski]

In her ski group of friends, she's the one with the best balance and technique (says her their instructor of 5+ years,) but she is likely to be at the back of the pack coming down the hill.

I would start with the instructor. Five years, presumably most weekends, is a long time to see your daughter's skiing develop, and to see other kids at the same age. Should be a lot of knowledge there, specific to your daughter.

He/she knows how your daughter skis. He/she knows where she skis. He/she can evaluate how she may work a ski at the beginning of this season, and as the season progresses. He/she knows what she has been in for boots, and how well she uses them. That's a factor.

He/she might have some great ideas. Then again, he/she might be clueless. I have no way of evaluating that one.

Sierra Jim is a very solid recommendation, BTW.

I've seen girls her age and size all over the map in terms of their needs. Even those who are on snow a lot. Much more to it than size.

Good luck!

 

[oldschoolskier]

Besides wt and ht, also consider age, experience and aggression. These factors can offset the selection in one direction or another.

Not only does this apply to girls it applies to boys (and adults).

Finally, consider the importance of boots, too soft, the stiffer ski will feel like crap, too stiff and a softer ski will feel like crap (simple explaination). Remember boots are the interface between the ski and the skier, as such should factor in any major equipment change.