Santa Greg sent me a pair this Christmas. I am working on binding mounting now. If Uller ever gives NE a break I may get to ski them too.
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Rossignol Black Ops Gamer 118, the best powder/crud ski being made? (at least for lighter and some medium sized skiers)
- Thread starter ski otter 2
- Start date
Lol that's funny SpeedyKevin. Your wife saw the "click" moment and you took off haha.
I've already clicked with these on ice and piled up fake dust. I clicked with them within 10 seconds, and it was one the strongest "clicks" I've ever felt. I was laughing out loud on my first run on lab snow on a 118mm ski that's a bit too short for me. It didn't make sense to be honest, but they felt amazing. I put more runs on them and they got even more intuitive and stable.
Once again Rossi family of skis are the standout of my quiver this year, the BO118 and Pro Riders(again). I've been on current model Volkls and Moment skis most of the season so far, and they are good, but not standout.
I will forgive a little tip dive on these because of my -4.6 mount with my larger personal size on a short ski. These could become just a "soft snow ski", and I'd still be happy with them, but I have a feeling they will be just fine in deeper snow with the right stance that'll be easy to get used to.
I've already clicked with these on ice and piled up fake dust. I clicked with them within 10 seconds, and it was one the strongest "clicks" I've ever felt. I was laughing out loud on my first run on lab snow on a 118mm ski that's a bit too short for me. It didn't make sense to be honest, but they felt amazing. I put more runs on them and they got even more intuitive and stable.
Once again Rossi family of skis are the standout of my quiver this year, the BO118 and Pro Riders(again). I've been on current model Volkls and Moment skis most of the season so far, and they are good, but not standout.
I will forgive a little tip dive on these because of my -4.6 mount with my larger personal size on a short ski. These could become just a "soft snow ski", and I'd still be happy with them, but I have a feeling they will be just fine in deeper snow with the right stance that'll be easy to get used to.
Nice, very nice - and still the sad refrain: there needs to be a longer version, for the large and young of heart!
I fit the large and young at heart moniker. I plant to mount my 186cm BO118 at -6.5 from True Center. Anyone tried them back there who is a clyde and would like to report?? I have seen another comment on another site from a clyde that mounted -4.5 from TC and experienced tip dive. I am hoping going -2cm further back will cure it. I did a bunch of measurements on all my wide rockered skis and the -6.5 mount seems to line up well with them. No tip dive on any of them, shortest one is Liberty Origin 96, 187cm. I have the Origin mounted -11cm from TC, the others are all around -6 cm from TC. The one stand out trait of the BO is the tail rocker length is quite long and the tip rocker length quite short. The effective length of the ski when flat is biased more forward on this ski than my others. If you think of the center of the effective length versus the true center of the ski, the eff. length center is forward of the TC, the only ski I own like that. What that really means I don't know, but it stood out. When I measured from the mount point to the tip and tail the numbers were similar to all my other skis (at -6.5cm mount point) 99 cm in front and 85 cm in back. My 190 cm Moment Bibby mounted at -6cm from TC has 100 cm in front and 88 cm in back. Similar for my Faction CT3.0 (101 F, 87 B) and SkiLogik Depth Hoar (101 F, 89 B) both 190cm skis. The 187cm Origin is the only outlier with 104 front and 82 back. (again mount -11cm from TC).
It's worth a try. Not sure. I experienced that tip dive when I moved the mount point too far forward from rec. line, with my Schizos.
If it does work, you will probably have a ski that makes long GS like turns, and even bigger SG like turns, at speed,
while going through any crud like a tank, calm and damp. It might feel a bit heavy if you take it into tight places
or make shorter turns in more uneven, tight situations.
I just wish you could get as an option the "turnyness" that the more forward mount was meant to capture, as one option.
That turnyness would exist for a big guy with the Pettitor 118/189 (190 pull) (mounted on the rec. line plus 2 or 3, as a starting place),
the Sender Squad 112/194 (maybe plus 2), and the new Sender Free 110/191 (minus a few maybe). The Pettitor is nearly the same
ski as the BO 118, only stouter and longer. It works for a little guy too, with turnyness, at around plus 4 (where I usually ski it)
or even plus 4 1/2 (where Seth Morrison skied it).
If it does work, you will probably have a ski that makes long GS like turns, and even bigger SG like turns, at speed,
while going through any crud like a tank, calm and damp. It might feel a bit heavy if you take it into tight places
or make shorter turns in more uneven, tight situations.
I just wish you could get as an option the "turnyness" that the more forward mount was meant to capture, as one option.
That turnyness would exist for a big guy with the Pettitor 118/189 (190 pull) (mounted on the rec. line plus 2 or 3, as a starting place),
the Sender Squad 112/194 (maybe plus 2), and the new Sender Free 110/191 (minus a few maybe). The Pettitor is nearly the same
ski as the BO 118, only stouter and longer. It works for a little guy too, with turnyness, at around plus 4 (where I usually ski it)
or even plus 4 1/2 (where Seth Morrison skied it).
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Pic of the new Sender Free 118 in yellow /purple along with the Sender Soul 102 beside the 110 which looks promising. As I said before, the graphics are okay but definitely prefer the swamps!
I got my first day on my new BO118's a little while ago mounted at -4 from the recommended line (-6.5cm from TC) . It had snowed 4-5" a day or two before so had some first tracks runs, some tracked up groomers, and some packed down groomers and trees. The new snow was medium density and not super light stuff. I was worried about the ski length being short and the short answer was the -4 mount point was a success. I experienced no tip dive, I could drive my tips as I wanted to in the untracked snow, and the tracked snow. It wasn't deep, light powder, so maybe there is more "verification" to be done, but I really enjoyed the skis. Everything that has been said about how good and how fun they are was accurate to me. They carved pretty well, absorbed terrain nicely, floated well, pivoted pretty well, and in general skied great. I do think the pivot would improve by going forward, but I had no issues sliding and pivoting these when I wanted to. Going forward would risk tip dive for a Clyde like me. I had them in tight trees with moguls, and they did fine there as well. I noticed two negatives about these. One is on firm packed snow where the edges couldn't sink in much, the skis took a bit of force (effort) to get on edge and I could feel that in my knees. They felt "wide" when I have to lever them up on edge. (not surprising for a 118mm wide ski) In soft snow, it went away completely. I also noticed they don't have as much fore/aft support as say my 190cm Faction CT3.0's or my 190cm Moment Bibby Pro's. Also to be expected. They had enough support, but I would describe it as the sweet spot is not as big as a 190 cm length ski. I was able to make slalom turns on these as long as the snow was soft and the skis could sink into the snow. On firmer snow, the turns were more GS sized which was fine and the edge hold is pretty good in general. Firm groomer skiing is not their forte, as expected, and a narrower ski will perform much better. Boy were they floaty and fun in ungroomed conditions, which is what they are made for.
I was worried that these would ski too short for me and experience tip dive. Mounting at -4 from rec. was the answer to make these skis work for me at 6'4", 250lbs. They are still turny and easy to pivot at that mount point, but I probably lost some of that characteristic compared to mounting them closer to the rec. mount. I put fixed position bindings on them so won't be moving them to suit the conditions. Looking forward to getting them in some soft snow again if we ever get more in NE this season.
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After spending a week on the 191 Sender Frees, I am willing to pay Stockli prices for a 190+ Black Ops/Sender Free 118. MAKE IT HAPPEN ROSSIGNOL
Knew @ScottB wouid love the Blackops 118 and bet he’ll love them even more after SkiMD does his thing on them.
Actually wrote another email to Rossignol as my last two pairs of BO 118, my Sender Free 110, my FIS SL and my buddies Experience skis all came with mediocre tunes from the factory.
Will get out on my Sender Free 110 and Blackops 118 in Spring conditions tomorrow which I’m sure they will kill it in.
Actually wrote another email to Rossignol as my last two pairs of BO 118, my Sender Free 110, my FIS SL and my buddies Experience skis all came with mediocre tunes from the factory.
Will get out on my Sender Free 110 and Blackops 118 in Spring conditions tomorrow which I’m sure they will kill it in.
wasn't really feeling the new SF118 top sheet but...with purple pivots...damn
The pic above and some others online confirming that the SF 118 is doing the same clear “show off the AirTip” like the Sender Free 110 did.
I’ve heard that even the Blackops 118 has been using that same AirTip plastic spacer for years but has the rubber sheets continue over it vs ending it before the spacer like in the SF 110 and now SF 118.
So a shorter rubber sheet and the change from ABS reinforcement underfoot to a metal sheet again(pre-swamps had metal sheet) should be the reason the spec weights are 50gr lower in the SF 118 now.
Going back to back from the SF to BO 118 in firm, refrozen conditions 2 days this week now have confirmed they make the same sort of tip noise(aka-very little) too. Was kinda nervous when encountering noisy snow on the SF 110 that “oh, here’s the issue of only going part way up the tip with rubber” but when I swapped to the Swamps, they made the exact same noise through it.
So I think we should be good on the SF 118 then. Should just have A HAIR lighter swing weight with the rubber not extending to the extreme tips.
I’ve heard that even the Blackops 118 has been using that same AirTip plastic spacer for years but has the rubber sheets continue over it vs ending it before the spacer like in the SF 110 and now SF 118.
So a shorter rubber sheet and the change from ABS reinforcement underfoot to a metal sheet again(pre-swamps had metal sheet) should be the reason the spec weights are 50gr lower in the SF 118 now.
Going back to back from the SF to BO 118 in firm, refrozen conditions 2 days this week now have confirmed they make the same sort of tip noise(aka-very little) too. Was kinda nervous when encountering noisy snow on the SF 110 that “oh, here’s the issue of only going part way up the tip with rubber” but when I swapped to the Swamps, they made the exact same noise through it.
So I think we should be good on the SF 118 then. Should just have A HAIR lighter swing weight with the rubber not extending to the extreme tips.
Logan Pehota on the SF 118
Love Logan’s skiing and see lots of his videos as he’s one of the poster child skiers for the Sender Free 110.
Funny that video is from Revelstoke as I was just trying out my Sender Free 110 and BO 118 this week trying to decide which one to take as my “wide ski” for my annual Revelstoke/Banff trip this year. If it was just 2 weeks in Revy, I’d go BO 118 but also have 18 days out of Banff so leaning SF 110.
Funny that video is from Revelstoke as I was just trying out my Sender Free 110 and BO 118 this week trying to decide which one to take as my “wide ski” for my annual Revelstoke/Banff trip this year. If it was just 2 weeks in Revy, I’d go BO 118 but also have 18 days out of Banff so leaning SF 110.
I sure wish we would get a decent snow storm on the East Coast (4-7" last night in the mtn's). In the last 3 years I have added the following skis to my quiver:
2021 Faction CT3.0 (112mm) 190cm length
2016 Moment Bibby Pro (118mm) 190cm length (shout out to @ski otter 2)
2023 Rossi BO118 186cm length (shout out to @GregK)
Just a little influenced by this forum, huh?
Had some great spring days last year on the CT3.0. Got those dialed in for mount point, -2cm from CT line. Have only one day on the BO118 and only two days on the Bibby Pro. Moved the Bibby's bindings from -.5 cm from rec to +.5 cm and helped the pivot ability without taking away from carving. Feels good where it is, but might try more forward. Need more time to dial it in. The BO is at -4 from rec. with fixed bindings. Seems great where it is and just want some soft snow to ski it. Maybe this weekend will add some more, but heading to Maine this weekend and Vt seems to be doing better for snow. Going to throw all 3 skis in the box, along with something narrower which I most likely will actually ski on. The fatties on firm snow just don't do it for me.
@ski otter 2,
I think skiing on hard, firm snow is very different ski dynamics than skiing on any snow where your edges sink into the snow. I assume western skiing is mostly on snow where your edges sink in and the snow/ski shape & surface area is the predominant factor in ski behavior. On firm snow, its the snow/ski edge interface that is predominant in ski behavior, which then is effected by torsional strength, ski edge "tune", edge release ability, ski angle (same with soft snow, but different for edge versus ski surface area). I find that I like almost all skis in soft snow, but if a ski I like in soft snow has a bad tune or weak torsional strength I will not like it on firm snow. So that really makes a distinction in fat ski performance when using them on the East coast. On every ski day, I will encounter firm snow and be made aware of how the skis edge performance is.
My first day on my 143mm wide Ski Logik powder skis I made 3 runs on untracked trails and loved the ski. My 4th run was on a groomed packed run and I almost slid into the woods around a corner because the edge tune was so poor I had no edge bite and couldn't turn the skis. Stayed away from packed trails after that and had the tune fixed before using them again. That was a very scary run that I will never forget. I hit a patch of soft snow and turned just feet before I was about to smash into a tree.
2021 Faction CT3.0 (112mm) 190cm length
2016 Moment Bibby Pro (118mm) 190cm length (shout out to @ski otter 2)
2023 Rossi BO118 186cm length (shout out to @GregK)
Just a little influenced by this forum, huh?
Had some great spring days last year on the CT3.0. Got those dialed in for mount point, -2cm from CT line. Have only one day on the BO118 and only two days on the Bibby Pro. Moved the Bibby's bindings from -.5 cm from rec to +.5 cm and helped the pivot ability without taking away from carving. Feels good where it is, but might try more forward. Need more time to dial it in. The BO is at -4 from rec. with fixed bindings. Seems great where it is and just want some soft snow to ski it. Maybe this weekend will add some more, but heading to Maine this weekend and Vt seems to be doing better for snow. Going to throw all 3 skis in the box, along with something narrower which I most likely will actually ski on. The fatties on firm snow just don't do it for me.
@ski otter 2,
I think skiing on hard, firm snow is very different ski dynamics than skiing on any snow where your edges sink into the snow. I assume western skiing is mostly on snow where your edges sink in and the snow/ski shape & surface area is the predominant factor in ski behavior. On firm snow, its the snow/ski edge interface that is predominant in ski behavior, which then is effected by torsional strength, ski edge "tune", edge release ability, ski angle (same with soft snow, but different for edge versus ski surface area). I find that I like almost all skis in soft snow, but if a ski I like in soft snow has a bad tune or weak torsional strength I will not like it on firm snow. So that really makes a distinction in fat ski performance when using them on the East coast. On every ski day, I will encounter firm snow and be made aware of how the skis edge performance is.
My first day on my 143mm wide Ski Logik powder skis I made 3 runs on untracked trails and loved the ski. My 4th run was on a groomed packed run and I almost slid into the woods around a corner because the edge tune was so poor I had no edge bite and couldn't turn the skis. Stayed away from packed trails after that and had the tune fixed before using them again. That was a very scary run that I will never forget. I hit a patch of soft snow and turned just feet before I was about to smash into a tree.
Just finished 2 days on my Blackops 118 skis(-2.5cm/5cm total) and they killed it in the fresh snow, trees, tracked powder and even did a few high speed carving runs on chopped up groomers.
They felt grabby and a lot of work to start the first day at Sunshine Village and wasn’t feeling super confident on them. I was wondering if the warm, wet snow vs my colder wax etc was to blame or something was on the edges etc.
Ran a diamond stone over the edges and noticed it smoothed a few spots and the skis were instantly way better. Wished they were clean from the start as I tired myself out quickly to start the day. Lol
Were awesome the rest of the day though.
Day 2 and they were great from the start and were fun in the fresh new snow at Lake Louise while still crushing the tracked snow later in the day. Was still a bit sore from the previous mornings “edge issue” workout but skied mostly bumps, trees and bowls and still skied till 3:30pm.
Was wishing I had my Sender Free 110 the first morning with the rough start but glad I had the Blackops 118 multiple times after that. The float and ability to fly through tracked snow is so great. Also think I’m noticing the slightly better balance in powder with this pair vs the -2.25cm mount on last year’s set.
They felt grabby and a lot of work to start the first day at Sunshine Village and wasn’t feeling super confident on them. I was wondering if the warm, wet snow vs my colder wax etc was to blame or something was on the edges etc.
Ran a diamond stone over the edges and noticed it smoothed a few spots and the skis were instantly way better. Wished they were clean from the start as I tired myself out quickly to start the day. Lol
Were awesome the rest of the day though.
Day 2 and they were great from the start and were fun in the fresh new snow at Lake Louise while still crushing the tracked snow later in the day. Was still a bit sore from the previous mornings “edge issue” workout but skied mostly bumps, trees and bowls and still skied till 3:30pm.
Was wishing I had my Sender Free 110 the first morning with the rough start but glad I had the Blackops 118 multiple times after that. The float and ability to fly through tracked snow is so great. Also think I’m noticing the slightly better balance in powder with this pair vs the -2.25cm mount on last year’s set.
That sounded great, @GregK.
I had a great powder day too, today, Sunday, on the Black Ops 118s, praise the Lord.
I've watched a number of friends, old people, who one by one have had to give up powder days,
as they gradually age. So not quite yet, for me. I think this is partly thanks to skis that do crud as well as powder well,
make it easier in crud especially, as these Black Ops 118 sure do.
So today was wonderful, great but strenuous, I might say. A challenge. Hard to really get into shape for a slightly heavier
snow 8"-12" powder day, so I'm grateful for these skis, and great crud skis also!
I had a great powder day too, today, Sunday, on the Black Ops 118s, praise the Lord.
I've watched a number of friends, old people, who one by one have had to give up powder days,
as they gradually age. So not quite yet, for me. I think this is partly thanks to skis that do crud as well as powder well,
make it easier in crud especially, as these Black Ops 118 sure do.
So today was wonderful, great but strenuous, I might say. A challenge. Hard to really get into shape for a slightly heavier
snow 8"-12" powder day, so I'm grateful for these skis, and great crud skis also!
This is an odd post I want to do here next, but it's related to the Rossi 118 Black Ops.
The ski that the Black Ops 118 "learned from," copied, the K2 Pettitor 118/120, is a slightly burlier ski, in its longest length -
189 cm (pull 190.5 or so), and slightly heavier since it's longer. It is also surprisingly playful, easy and versatile
when adjusted right: it skis like the Black Ops 118 only more so, after all; and it works better for a bigger guy than
the Black Ops. I don't think big guys overpower it fore-aft, at least up to 220 lbs 6'1" or so or more. (Beyond that,
I'm not sure, going only by friends who have loved that ski. I don't know anyone bigger who skied it.)
On the other hand, it's noticeably heavier, too heavy, at this point, for some of those who used to love it.
At any rate, once again there is a lightly used pair of Pettitors 120/118 for sale on eBay, offered at about $500 or best offer,
including shipping, and including Marker Jesters. For me, the Jesters are a minus, because I'm lighter weight than
that binding is good for, but mainly because with this ski I would not want a fixed binding.
Much more than the Black Ops 118, this ski pretty much demands an adjustable binding, for reasons I've posted before.
The things have at least 4.5 cm of adjustment sweet spot, within which there is a full range of great performance,
from being more of a charger than the Black Ops Squad 112, to being more playful and freestyle than the Black Ops 118 can be
except for a small person. The skis are in Englewood, Colorado, for pickup possibilities.
I think I've seen maybe three of these for sale in the last four or five years. Not many.
Dang, there is also a risk that for many very good skiers, these skis are obsolete, just because they are so heavy.
They probably require someone stronger, more in shape, and happy with the dampness, etc. of a damp, heavy ski that charges
pretty much anything except really confined, quick turn spaces, if so adjusted, in the way the Rossi Black Ops does
for only medium to lighter skiers. (There are better skis for soft snow big moguls and tight trees, at least for me.)
A big guy might do even better. But you gotta adjust the bindings to the right fore-aft position(s) to get the kind(s) of skiing style(s)
each skier prefers. Honest. Some unknowns here, but wanted to at least put it out there.
(Oh, and one thing inaccurate about the eBay offer is that this ski is not really for intermediates, though a big intermediate might be able
to ski it. It is optimally for mid-level advanced up to elite skiers.
)
The ski that the Black Ops 118 "learned from," copied, the K2 Pettitor 118/120, is a slightly burlier ski, in its longest length -
189 cm (pull 190.5 or so), and slightly heavier since it's longer. It is also surprisingly playful, easy and versatile
when adjusted right: it skis like the Black Ops 118 only more so, after all; and it works better for a bigger guy than
the Black Ops. I don't think big guys overpower it fore-aft, at least up to 220 lbs 6'1" or so or more. (Beyond that,
I'm not sure, going only by friends who have loved that ski. I don't know anyone bigger who skied it.)
On the other hand, it's noticeably heavier, too heavy, at this point, for some of those who used to love it.
At any rate, once again there is a lightly used pair of Pettitors 120/118 for sale on eBay, offered at about $500 or best offer,
including shipping, and including Marker Jesters. For me, the Jesters are a minus, because I'm lighter weight than
that binding is good for, but mainly because with this ski I would not want a fixed binding.
Much more than the Black Ops 118, this ski pretty much demands an adjustable binding, for reasons I've posted before.
The things have at least 4.5 cm of adjustment sweet spot, within which there is a full range of great performance,
from being more of a charger than the Black Ops Squad 112, to being more playful and freestyle than the Black Ops 118 can be
except for a small person. The skis are in Englewood, Colorado, for pickup possibilities.
I think I've seen maybe three of these for sale in the last four or five years. Not many.
Dang, there is also a risk that for many very good skiers, these skis are obsolete, just because they are so heavy.
They probably require someone stronger, more in shape, and happy with the dampness, etc. of a damp, heavy ski that charges
pretty much anything except really confined, quick turn spaces, if so adjusted, in the way the Rossi Black Ops does
for only medium to lighter skiers. (There are better skis for soft snow big moguls and tight trees, at least for me.)
A big guy might do even better. But you gotta adjust the bindings to the right fore-aft position(s) to get the kind(s) of skiing style(s)
each skier prefers. Honest. Some unknowns here, but wanted to at least put it out there.
(Oh, and one thing inaccurate about the eBay offer is that this ski is not really for intermediates, though a big intermediate might be able
to ski it. It is optimally for mid-level advanced up to elite skiers.
)
Lightly used K2 Petitor Pro Model with Marker Jester bindings | eBay
Lightly used K2 Petitor Pro Model with Marker Jester bindings. These skis have been babied and seldomly ridden. They are fantastic powder skis with a tip to tail rocker,120mm waist and with the Marker Jesters, you will be able to send any terrain confidently. I am parting ways as I am trying to...
www.ebay.com
Last edited:
Curious to how you'd feel on some of the heritage lab skis, say the fl113?This is an odd post I want to do here next, but it's related to the Rossi 118 Black Ops.
The ski that the Black Ops 118 "learned from," copied, the K2 Pettitor 118, is a slightly burlier ski, in its longest length -
189 cm (pull 190.5 or so), and slightly heavier since it's longer. It is also surprisingly playful, easy and versatile
when adjusted right: it skis like the Black Ops 118 only more so, after all; and it works better for a bigger guy than
the Black Ops. I don't think big guys overpower it fore-aft, at least up to 220 lbs 6'1" or so or more. (Beyond that,
I'm not sure, going only by friends who have loved that ski. I don't know anyone bigger who skied it.)
On the other hand, it's noticeably heavier, too heavy, at this point, for some of those who used to love it.
At any rate, once again there is a lightly used pair of Pettitors 118 for sale on eBay, offered at about $500 or best offer,
including shipping, and including Marker Jesters. For me, the Jesters are a minus, because I'm lighter weight than
that binding is good for, but mainly because with this ski I would not want a fixed binding.
Much more than the Black Ops 118, this ski pretty much demands an adjustable binding, for reasons I've posted before.
The things have at least 4.5 cm of adjustment sweet spot, within which there is a full range of great performance,
from being more of a charger than the Black Ops Squad 112, to being more playful and freestyle than the Black Ops 118 can be,
except for a small person. The skis are in Englewood, Colorado, for pickup possibilities.
Dang, there is also a risk that for many very good skiers, these skis are obsolete, just because they are so heavy.
They probably require someone stronger, more in shape, and happy with the dampness, etc. of a damp, heavy ski that charges
pretty much anything except really confined, quick turn spaces, if so adjusted, in the way the Rossi Black Ops does
for only medium to lighter skiers. (There are better skis for soft snow big moguls and tight trees, at least for me.)
A big guy might do even better. But you gotta adjust the bindings to the right fore-aft position(s) to get the kind(s) of skiing styles
each skier prefers. Honest. Some unknowns here, but wanted to at least put it out there.
Lightly used K2 Petitor Pro Model with Marker Jester bindings | eBay
Lightly used K2 Petitor Pro Model with Marker Jester bindings. These skis have been babied and seldomly ridden. They are fantastic powder skis with a tip to tail rocker,120mm waist and with the Marker Jesters, you will be able to send any terrain confidently. I am parting ways as I am trying to...www.ebay.com
I've wondered that also.
And, do any of them get wonderfully dialed in, crazy easy "turny" when you move the mount forward?
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