Need Spring Wax, Non-Toxic

[Xela]

I've been happily using Briko Maplus Race Base Medium until this past weekend at Kirkwood. We had spring conditions and the wet snow was grabbing the skis. I know some of this is due to base structure, and I'm addressing this. Some of it, however, can be addressed with wax. I don't want to use any fluoros or other hazardous materials. In the past, I've used Toko yellow, which seems to be just like the red except with silicone mixed in. It has worked, but it doesn't last particularly long, nor is the temperature range that wide.

So, my request: What's the best non-toxic spring wax?

Thanks in advance.

 

[hbear]

Not a spring wax per say, but have been VERY happy with Nanox over what seems to be every temp range and condition.
Took a flyer on it after talking with a bunch of racers that used it; really glad I did as it not only works but keeps my waxing simple.
Skiing everything from -25*C old and new snow, to slush and everything in between. Have yet to find a point the skis don't feel slick.
Quite durable as well. Not as cheap as a simple hydrocarbon wax however.

Inventor says no flouro in it either.

 

[Dwight]

I like Pearl.

 

[cantunamunch]

If your Toko yellow is working for you I will note two things:

1) Plural wax-scrape-brush cycles extend the durability and range of all waxes. A 3-cycle or 5-cycle ski will have a better temp performance and durability than a 1-cycle ski.

2) I know Toko blue plays really well with Maplus RBM (FWIW I just used that combo for 8 pairs for Whistler for a week). Have you tried using your yellow on top of RBM, or as an under-the-iron adjunct to RBM?

Personally, I have no problem with fluoros (and I include PTFE, PVDF, PFPE under that umbrella) - and that's what most of my spring wax box is. The only exceptions are Hertel Hot Sauce (rather mediocre as a spring wax- FC739 is leaps better but falls under the fluoro ban), One Ball Jay silicone-graphite mix (untested) and Swix glacier wax (mostly a surfactant formula). Sorry I have no better reccos.

 

[newfydog]

Those fluoros are not toxic until over-heated. An iron won't do it---smoke from an overly hot iron is vaporized hydrocarbon wax, the fluoros don't break down. If, however, you wax skis like some euro techs, smoking a Galoises, you will indeed volatilize the fluoros and poison yourself.

 

[cantunamunch]

Those fluoros are not toxic until over-heated. An iron won't do it---smoke from an overly hot iron is vaporized hydrocarbon wax, the fluoros don't break down. If, however, you wax skis like some euro techs, smoking a Galoises, you will indeed volatilize the fluoros and poison yourself.

Oh absolutely. Any carpet stain repellent or aerosol-based waterproofer is miles more dangerous than fluoro wax.

For an extra safety buffer - powdered PTFE or PVDF additives don't even get into the vapor- they can't. PFPE's (think Zardoz) have such low vapor pressures that they are used as the lubricant of choice in turbomolecular vacuum pumps. About the only way to inhale any is to saturate the air with micronized rotobrush dust (see euro wax room techs).

Yes, I am saying your roto is far more likely to put crap into your body than your fluoro.

 

[Xela]

I guess I'm partly concerned with what I add to the environment in the snowmelt. If a respirator is recommended, I'm considering it toxic.

I think it's the surfactant properties I'm after, which is what the Toko yellow has. I'm also curious about Meadow Foam. Has anybody played with the Wend warm formula? Does it address this? The One Ball Jay silicone-graphite sounds intriguing.

Personally, I'm a bit unclear about doing one wax "over" another. It seems to me that the new wax and the wax already in the base just melt together, creating an average. I'm not saying this is a bad result, but it seems to me less special than often described.

Also, any comments on Zardoz?

 

[AmyPJ]

I guess I'm partly concerned with what I add to the environment in the snowmelt. If a respirator is recommended, I'm considering it toxic.

I think it's the surfactant properties I'm after, which is what the Toko yellow has. I'm also curious about Meadow Foam. Has anybody played with the Wend warm formula? Does it address this? The One Ball Jay silicone-graphite sounds intriguing.

Personally, I'm a bit unclear about doing one wax "over" another. It seems to me that the new wax and the wax already in the base just melt together, creating an average. I'm not saying this is a bad result, but it seems to me less special than often described.

Also, any comments on Zardoz?

For me, Zardoz was a waste of money. It lasted about 5 turns. I reapplied, it lasted about 5 more turns. Now, if you ski 300 vertical feet per run, that might be sufficient (I know you don't.) I was also warned it's not particularly great for the bases over time. I've been rubbing on Dominator Butter. Works for about 1 run, but of course, it's flouro.
This April/May weather in mid-March SUCKS.

 

[cantunamunch]

*grin* you should read the MSDS for plain old white sand - talk about respirator recommendations. But, hey, I respect your choice to stick to your choices.

Personally, I'm a bit unclear about doing one wax "over" another. It seems to me that the new wax and the wax already in the base just melt together, creating an average. I'm not saying this is a bad result, but it seems to me less special than often described.

Yes, it does, sort of, but also no for several reasons including:
different meltpoints tend to separate blended wax as the mix cools, creating pockets of light over heavy. The slower the cooling the more the separation ;
even if completely blended, it will have lubricant groups that the heavier wax may not have;
even if completely blended it can reduce the overall cohesion of the mix;
it is, given proper scraping and buffing of the base wax, possible to do low-temp overlays.

Also, any comments on Zardoz?

Well, it is a PFPE and therefore falls under your aversion to fluoros. That said, a) it is very stable and has low vapor pressure b) if done right it can be a pretty sweet additive to most formulas.

By done right I mean: applied with a felt pad over a fresh hot wax and allowed to soak in, preferably overnight OR done as a Felix process (Zardoz first, hot wax over).

Do NOT attempt to do the purple Haze process with RBM! IME the only wax that hates purple Haze more than RBM is Wintersteiger Slik, by a hair.

This April/May weather in mid-March SUCKS.

Welcome to our winters, all our winters that is. We tend to have April in February though.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I'm not sure why the forums seem to recommend everything BUT Swix. CH10 is a pretty good spring wax. LF10 even more so.

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm not sure why the forums seem to recommend everything BUT Swix. CH10 is a pretty good spring wax. LF10 even more so.

*shrug* because it feels like recommending Columbia outerwear or Toyota vehicles? "The Camry is a pretty good spring ride, the 86 even more so"?

 

[BGreen]

Try toko yellow/black 1:1, or a black cycle followed by yellow. My personal aversion to CH10/LF10 is complete lack of durability. Fine as a race wax, lacking as a rec wax.

 

[Primoz]

Those fluoros are not toxic until over-heated. An iron won't do it---smoke from an overly hot iron is vaporized hydrocarbon wax, the fluoros don't break down. If, however, you wax skis like some euro techs, smoking a Galoises, you will indeed volatilize the fluoros and poison yourself.

Honestly after all these years I still don't know if this is true or not true. Let me explain this...Swix is doing some researches for years already, having their own service guys tested once or twice a year, and they always tell everything is cool and there's no toxic fumes coming out when waxing fluoro waxes and/or overlays. On the other hand, they give all their techs gas mask and make them use those mask, especially when waxing fluoro stuff. Now if there's no toxic fumes and no problems with those waxes, there's no need for gas masks, or?
On the other hand, everyone and their dogs in xc skiing WC were using masks 20 years ago already, and those few poor guys, who don't work in comfort of super ventilated wax trucks still use them today.
Personally, I have always been using gas masks when waxing fluoro stuff, and as I still have those masks, I just buy new filters now and then, and keep on using them today, even though for those few pairs a year, where I put fluoro stuff on, I would bet it's overkill. But it doesn't hurt.
As far as smoking goes... yeah stuff is crazy... when I was still in this business, there was one coach with cigarette in mouth coming to our wax room when we were in middle of doing overlays. Before you could know, he was laying on his back and we were trying to get him out and calling ambulance. So with that I'm pretty sure it is toxic, but you can't compare 180c degree iron and few 100 degrees hot cigarette and inhaling all those vapors straight into you through cigarette.

 

[SlideWright]

My go to spring system has been coarse base structure, RBM, scraped and well brushed, then LP2 Orange or Yellow (LF, or use BP1 no LF) or Purl Yellow. Adding graphite repels dirt. Along with Toko's waxes, I've been of the understanding from several perspectives that they all are probably more durable than LF & CH10, etc, with equal or better performances, longer.

A coarse structure channels water better in moist snows and reduces the suction of smoother bases, especially on the flats where water may collect. This is the primary issue to address. Using the RBM or something more durable provides base protection and decent glide even if the softer spring waxes wear off in the more abrasive frozen morning snows. The Orange is a little more durable (since it is designed for 'old coarse snow') than yellow and specs out in about the same temperature range as yellow. Fluoro is hydrophobic and increases the glide of waxes in wetter snows and more humidity. You can benefit with colder waxes with LF in wetter snows and humidity because the wax is more hydrophobic.

If you are concerned about dealing with restructuring issues, you can easily and quickly back off the structure with a steel blade in the Ski Visions Planer. Another trick, which may be more practical for those living in areas where the temps are highly variable throughout the season, is to apply a super hard green when colder. Do not fully brush out of a coarse structure and then apply the WOD. Later, if things warm up and get wetter, brush out the green to free up the coarse structure and add a warmer wax if desired.

Edit: to add that FWIW, I believe that the amount of fluoro added to hydrocarbon waxes is on the order of 5% to maybe 10% which is minuscule. I'd guess peeing in the woods does more 'harm' to the snowpack, though doing whatever we can to REALLY reduce impacts (vs feel good actions) is in all our interests. Skiing (supporting, traveling to, gear, etc) as an activity is far from environmentally pure.

 

[SlideWright]

On the bench prepping a course base structure to harvest spring corn in 10-15 minutes:

• Wire roto brush to clean out bases
• Ski Visions Structuring plane linear structure w/coarse stone
• 150 grit Silicon Carbide sandpaper on planing block to even out linear structure and to add cross hatch pattern
• Steel scraper or Ski Visions steel blade to moderate structure, high spots or "plastic hairies" if needed or desired
  
• KUU bio-Citron for topical clean after brushing
• Possibly a hard base prep & protection wax and/ or graphite
• LP2 Yellow or Orange butter for the wet corn

 

[cantunamunch]

<- still a wrench seeing orange as a warm glide wax after I got used to it as the binder layer for kick zones.

 

[SlideWright]

I expect we all need a reminder now and again that there is a difference between gravity aided glide and human powered glide.

 

[BGreen]

Have you looked into Saucer Wax?

 

[Tricia]

I've been happily using Briko Maplus Race Base Medium until this past weekend at Kirkwood. We had spring conditions and the wet snow was grabbing the skis. I know some of this is due to base structure, and I'm addressing this. Some of it, however, can be addressed with wax. I don't want to use any fluoros or other hazardous materials. In the past, I've used Toko yellow, which seems to be just like the red except with silicone mixed in. It has worked, but it doesn't last particularly long, nor is the temperature range that wide.

So, my request: What's the best non-toxic spring wax?

Thanks in advance.

I used to use the Maplus Purple wax for spring conditions. Its super hard and can be a bit stubborn to spread when you're waxing, but it holds up and is decent for spring grippy snow. There could be something better.
*It looks like that is the wax you're currently using?

@SlideWright turned me on to it.

 

[Xela]

I always forget to de-wax before using the Ski Visions stone. My stone clogs with wax and never works as well, even when I try to clean it with solvent.

Experimentally, the Toko yellow lasts about 1.5 days. Grr.