Need Spring Wax, Non-Toxic

[cantunamunch]

I always forget to de-wax before using the Ski Visions stone. My stone clogs with wax and never works as well, even when I try to clean it with solvent.

Freeze it and brass brush it.

EDIT: Well, 1.5 is not catastrophic, though one would go through it quick.

 

[SlideWright]

Always brush out before using the structuring stones. With the above steel brush (or brass), I did not have any clogging issues. I try to avoid wax removal with wax remover if the skis have been running well to keep the wax 'seasoning' intact.

I bumped into a friend (and racer who prefers Briko-Maplus over other options) in Telluride this weekend. It was HOT and slushy corn. Firm and coarse, earlier and depending on aspect. I was running well on LP2 Orange over RBM and he was running well on LP2 Red over RB Special Reserve with Orange in his pocket to rub on if needed. I expect that the red would be at least 150% the durability of the yellow and the orange around 125% the durability of yellow, be it Toko or B-M.

 

[Chubb]

"Also, any comments on Zardoz?

Well, it is a PFPE and therefore falls under your aversion to fluoros. That said, a) it is very stable and has low vapor pressure b) if done right it can be a pretty sweet additive to most formulas.

By done right I mean: applied with a felt pad over a fresh hot wax and allowed to soak in, preferably overnight OR done as a Felix process (Zardoz first, hot wax over).

Do NOT attempt to do the purple Haze process with RBM! IME the only wax that hates purple Haze more than RBM is Wintersteiger Slik, by a hair.

What's the issue with using the Zardoz Felix or Purple Haze process with Briko-Maplus Race Base Medium? Would Zardoz work better with Race Base Soft for Spring conditions? I ask since I have a bunch of the graphite RBM and RBS.

What about the Felix/Purple Haze instructions to leave the base smooth and not structured? Can this possibly work in wet snow? If so then maybe it's a useful alternative to setting a coarse base structure.

 

[cantunamunch]

What's the issue with using the Zardoz Felix or Purple Haze process with Briko-Maplus Race Base Medium? Would Zardoz work better with Race Base Soft for Spring conditions? I ask since I have a bunch of the graphite RBM and RBS.

Felix is doable if you're careful; with PH it is very easy to wind up with sticky, rubbery glop that adheres to the bases like crazy but can't be spread out, can't be scraped or brushed and that resists base cleaner (because Zardoz does its job). Three base grinds and one donated pair of skis later I quit trying.

What about the Felix/Purple Haze instructions to leave the base smooth and not structured? Can this possibly work in wet snow? If so then maybe it's a useful alternative to setting a coarse base structure.

We were out yesterday with rock skis and Felix bases (One pair had Zardoz under Toko blue LF; the other pair had Zardoz under CH8). 72F-air temps, visible water puddles on flatter areas, especially on lift-access runouts, big sloughs of granular in between. Please note that we were on narrow skis (under 72mm waist).

What the Felix bases did do is eliminate the suction grab one gets going from a puddle to white (well, whiteish) snow. They actually did that amazingly well, and the effect lasted over 30K+ vertical.

What the Felix bases did not do is eliminate the random catch-and-release grabbiness in deeper white(ish) snow. That got a bit better in the afternoon as the breeze kicked up and the temps dropped but it never went away.

So - yes- limited success for limited goals (avoiding puddle consequences and having good speed on runouts/lift access). On narrow skis. I wouldn't call it a broad or general solution for spring conditions, no.

EDIT: today we are using pressed in structure (Holmenkol Trimaxx). They're calling for rain in about an hour, so...

 

[oldschoolskier]

One thing I have always carried in my pocket skiing is small piece of beeswax and a package of hotel soap.

Both are for waxing in conditions change and the skis are sticking.

The beeswax works in all conditions rub on and work in with palm of hand (provided your hands are tough enough) though not required. Alternately polish in with a rag (friend scarf if they aren't looking). Good for one run to a full day depending on conditions.

Soap is a warm day solution. Rub on liberally, if best results are desired, wet down slightly with a little melted snow in hand, let dry and repeat. This is a 20-40sec duration speed boost in wet snow conditions. This can be the secret between being faster than your friends on an important run for bragging rights.

Both of these are old school tricks that I have used for 40years and still catch people off guard when they are used. When I use the soap I usually say it special wax that costs a mint and I can't share it

 

[Chubb]

Felix is doable if you're careful; with PH it is very easy to wind up with sticky, rubbery glop that adheres to the bases like crazy but can't be spread out, can't be scraped or brushed and that resists base cleaner (because Zardoz does its job). Three base grinds and one donated pair of skis later I quit trying.

We were out yesterday with rock skis and Felix bases (One pair had Zardoz under Toko blue LF; the other pair had Zardoz under CH8). 72F-air temps, visible water puddles on flatter areas, especially on lift-access runouts, big sloughs of granular in between. Please note that we were on narrow skis (under 72mm waist).

What the Felix bases did do is eliminate the suction grab one gets going from a puddle to white (well, whiteish) snow. They actually did that amazingly well, and the effect lasted over 30K+ vertical.

What the Felix bases did not do is eliminate the random catch-and-release grabbiness in deeper white(ish) snow. That got a bit better in the afternoon as the breeze kicked up and the temps dropped but it never went away.

So - yes- limited success for limited goals (avoiding puddle consequences and having good speed on runouts/lift access). On narrow skis. I wouldn't call it a broad or general solution for spring conditions, no.

EDIT: today we are using pressed in structure (Holmenkol Trimaxx). They're calling for rain in about an hour, so...

Thanks for the timely response and warning. Maybe I'll get some Toko blue or black NF, instead of Maplus RBM, to try the Felix process with. Let us know if the pressed in structure improves on the smooth Felix base. I've pressed in a temporary coarse structure with a brass riller bar before but was never sure how much benefit it provided. That Trimaxx riller looks interesting but I don't see how it can produce an even pattern on an alpine ski with a large sidecut. Won't the two passes overlap a lot at the waist of a skinny ski and leave a big center gap at the tip and tail of a fat ski?

 

[cantunamunch]

Can't really say it was a direct comparison - it was a lot cooler today, low 50s, with some light drizzle. Bases ran better than yesterday.

You're right that the pressed-in pattern isn't 'even' in the sense of entirely parallel on either side - but the brass roller is self-guiding to a surprising level, and the overlap in the middle isn't really significant. I haven't used it on truly fat skis yet.

 

[BGreen]

Adding to the data, but perhaps complicating things further, I skied this past weekend on skis with a pretty 'all-purpose but biased toward normal' structure with Toko NF Black and Swix CH8. Snow was normal to high moisture, abrasive, snow temp around 30f and air temp at high as 47f. They ran well in the colder temps but were very sticky in the slop. I was extremely impressed with the durability. Now, one huge caveat here is I'm not totally sure if the Swix is CH8 or LF8.

 

[Carl Kuck]

I used Zardoz over Hertel Hot Sauce week before last in Utah, temps on the mountain in the 50s, wax held up really well and I had them re-waxed after three days, the rest of the week was similar. Very little grabbiness.

 

[CalG]

gulf wax has answered all my "eco friendly" spring time needs!

 

[ScotsSkier]

Holmenkol alpha with a little beta ( or even ultra) for a bit of hardness. Add some graphite if you want. If it is really wet, holmenkol silicone is hard to beat ( don't know if it is still available though)

 

[James]

Holmenkol alpha with a little beta ( or even ultra) for a bit of hardness. Add some graphite if you want. If it is really wet, holmenkol silicone is hard to beat ( don't know if it is still available though)

Swix used to make a silicone. CH 11 I think they called it. I always wondered if they got rid of it because it was bad for bases?

 

[Xela]

My daughter's coach suggested WD-40 is good for one run. I haven't tried it. I'm looking for longer-lasting solutions. Current candidate is a 50-50 mix of black and yellow.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I used Holmenkol Alpha with their Molybdenum Additiv today and it worked a treat!

 

[cantunamunch]

I used Holmenkol Alpha with their Molybdenum Additiv today and it worked a treat!

Same again Easter weekend?

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Same again Easter weekend?

I'd think so. Ran it again today.

 

[Jacques]

I've been happily using Briko Maplus Race Base Medium until this past weekend at Kirkwood. We had spring conditions and the wet snow was grabbing the skis. I know some of this is due to base structure, and I'm addressing this. Some of it, however, can be addressed with wax. I don't want to use any fluoros or other hazardous materials. In the past, I've used Toko yellow, which seems to be just like the red except with silicone mixed in. It has worked, but it doesn't last particularly long, nor is the temperature range that wide.

So, my request: What's the best non-toxic spring wax?

Thanks in advance.

I have not read anything in this thread except the above OP.
I will say don't be paranoid about fluorocarbon waxes! It's pure fluoro powders that require a super hot iron that can be a hazard to apply.

The structure of the ski base is most important with wet snows to achieve a good glide. So no matter what wax you use, you need a strong structure for wet snows.
Then the ski must be scraped and brushed to death to totally remove all surface wax and completely clean the structure out.

All that said, even with the best of both worlds, at a point of temperature the skis will start to "stick". This will occur at first at the lower elevations for the most part unless there is a massive inversion going on.

Then snow age plays a huge part as well. Nothing is sticker than fresh wet snow. For that you need a harder wax because it is fresh, but you still need fluorocarbons because it's wet.

So for wax your best bet for no brainer waxing would be either Race Zoom Old or New Snow. I sometimes use some HF blue for fresh wet combined with the appropriate anti-static wax. That gets way complicated for condition that only last so many weeks then it's all over anyway. The Race Zoom waxes are a medium fluoro and will do quite well for what you seek. Anyway, don't be afraid of using some fluorocarbon waxes.

 

[CalG]

Besting all this waxing gibberish!..... keep your speed up!

Fast is good! regardless of snow condition. '-)

 

[Xela]

I had good success at Squaw today with a coarse structure and a mix of Purl yellow and Purl graphite.

I think I bought the wrong black wax, though. From what I read on the net, it sounds like molybdenum is strictly better than graphite. Is moly toxic?