Head Monster 88 verses Rossingnol Experience 88 HD

[Jay Carver]

I am relatively new to Pugski and I have seen some separate reviews of the Head Monster 88 and the Rossingnol Experience 88HD. In the Monster 88 reviews when they have listed similar skis the Rossingnol E88 HD was not listed. I know through reading ski reviews on this site that if the physical characteristic of the skis are similar or the same, it doesn´t mean that the 2 skis will ski the same way.
I am very interested to know how these skis are similar and how they are different, as I understand from the reviews they are both very good mid width Piste killers, but may differ when they are taken off Piste.

Head Monster 88

• Lengths (in cm) 163, 170, 177, 184
• Turning radius 17.4m (177cm)
• Sidecut 133-88-114
• Core Wood, metal, Graphene

Rossignol Experience 88HD

• Lengths (in cm) 156, 164, 172, 180, 188
• Turning radius 17m (180cm)
• Sidecut 135-88-124
• Core Wood, carbon
  
  

 

[Cheizz]

I found the Monster to be more smooth and more energetic. Or rather, I found the E88 to be a bit dead (the Basalt, I think), only good at railroad carve turn on smooth surfaces. So for crud, soft snow, slush and even hardpack, I personally would go for the Monsters.

But I wouldn't rule out the Völkl Kendo or Black Crows Orb. Both would be more versatile in any type of conditions, even better on hardpack than the Monster or E88 (which both are quite heavy, too). My opinion, of course.

 

[LewyM]

I am relatively new to Pugski and I have seen some separate reviews of the Head Monster 88 and the Rossingnol Experience 88HD. In the Monster 88 reviews when they have listed similar skis the Rossingnol E88 HD was not listed. I know through reading ski reviews on this site that if the physical characteristic of the skis are similar or the same, it doesn´t mean that the 2 skis will ski the same way

@Jay Carver, the reason is that although both skis are 88mm underfoot, and generally pitched for the same on-mountain scenarios, they are VERY different skis in feel and typically would not be cross-shopped by the same skier.

The Monster 88 is a metal laminate, more stiff, more damp, more powerful. The Rossi 88 is lighter (feeling) without the metal, it feels sharp and quick on the snow but is less smooth and powerful - I haven't compared side by side, but I would bet that the Rossi 88 is softer flexing. I also think that the shape of the Rossi, the hammer nose and more flared tail cause it to initially pull in and stay locked into a turn more with less input, but it is kind of "techie" in a weird way, because if you want to do anything other than make 17m turns on soft groomers, you need to know what you are doing to engage and disengage the edge. So, for the same reasons that a lot of instructors like the E88 as a teaching/exam tool, I am not convinced that it is the best choice for an aspiring intermediate getting low edge angles, likely washing out the finish of every turn.

In a different way, the Monster 88 is a sub-optimal choice for the intermediate. It is stiff, stout and requires too much active, positive input to extract performance across various all-mountain scenarios. It would likely block, rather than enhance, your progress in the bumps and off-piste. The Monster 88 isn't necessarily a "difficult" ski, but it does need to be driven a bit more by the pilot. It rewards strong skiing but isn't an especially forgiving or mellow ride - you have to be both big enough to bend it and know how to bend it, or it might just feel like you are sliding down the hill on wood slats.

It is important to note that this isn't really a case of relative "expertness" - it is more about feel preference and size (the Rossi will usually appeal to a lighter skier, the Monster to a bigger skier). That said, taking skier weight as a control variable, a less experienced skier might be more comfortable on the Rossi 88 than the Monster 88 because it is easier to bend (and therefore control), and its shape hooks into a turn with less aggressive input.

Having skied both, based on what you have said in other threads, I would not recommend the Monster 88 for you next season - I think it would be too much ski and neither fun nor beneficial as a "game improvement tool." For you my non-pro recommendations is that the Rossi 88 is a "maybe" - you could probably flex it pretty well, but it is pretty "turny" in character (even though the turn R is roughly equivalent to the Monster, the shape causes a different feel/behavior in response to the same input). I'd demo it first if you could.

I hope that this is the comparison you are looking for. Maybe this is the missing "cage match" that @Philpug has been looking for.

Note: this comparison relates only to the 88 in each line. The Rossi E100 is much more like the Monster 98 - metal layup, damp powerful. Whereas the Monsters 88/98 are siblings, the Rossis 88/100 are more like cousins.

 

[skibob]

In a different way, the Monster 88 is a sub-optimal choice for the intermediate. It is stiff, stout and requires too much active, positive input to extract performance across various all-mountain scenarios. It would likely block, rather than enhance, your progress in the bumps and off-piste. The Monster 88 isn't necessarily a "difficult" ski, but it does need to be driven a bit more by the pilot. It rewards strong skiing but isn't an especially forgiving or mellow ride - you have to be both big enough to bend it and know how to bend it, or it might just feel like you are sliding down the hill on wood slats.

Couldn't agree more with this paragraph. First few times I was on them was WROD filled with obstacles (people). I was afraid to open them up (it was also first two days of season). And they felt a lot "like you are sliding down the hill on wood slats." I put them away for several weeks and went back to my Motive 95's. We had a dry spell of a few weeks in March (hard to believe this year) and I decided to try them out again. On a wideopen mountain blanketed with record snow fall. WOW! Once I was willing to command them this ski impressed me tons with energy, stability, responsiveness. I would still be skiing it next year if I hadn't met Renoun Z-90. I am big enough to bend it and once I realized how different it was from the Motives I was in love. Only had the Motives out one more time before the end of the season . . . Now both are gone and Renoun awaits. Love is a fickle thing . . .

 

[Ken_R]

I demoed the Monster 88 last season and loved it. Enough to buy one! Just a superb all mountain ski for typical skied out Colorado resort conditions. Damp, stable, fun, smooth and to me easy for all day on the hill. Fast, slow it did not matter the Monster wast just a refined ride for me. I got it in 184cm length so can't speak for the shorter lengths but man, If you are a decent skier it is a great buy. For days with fresh snow I have a wider pair of skis.

I have not tried the experience series from Rossi in a few years but I did not like them. Nose too "hooky" for my taste. Really nice when on edge but that is about it. Not versatile at all. More of a widish carver than an all mountain ski. At least thats what I felt.

 

[Marty McSly]

The Rossi 88 is lighter (feeling) without the metal

I may be wrong, but I thought HD in a Rossignol model name indicated a variant with metal. I'd have thought that the E88HD would be the same shape as the E88 but include a layer of Titanal.

But please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Marty McSly]

Once I was willing to command them

In my limited experience, this is the key to the Monsters. Drive them confidently and they respond with confidence and assurance. Be indecisive or nervous and that's what you get back. As @Ken_R says, fast or slow, doesn't matter.

 

[LewyM]

I may be wrong, but I thought HD in a Rossignol model name indicated a variant with metal. I'd have thought that the E88HD would be the same shape as the E88 but include a layer of Titanal.

But please correct me if I'm wrong.

HD does not necessarily mean "metal laminate" in Rossi-speak. I think that it means roughly "updated version with the Carbon/basalt matrix" but I am not sure.

As for the composition of the various skis, the E88 (both the original and HD) does not have metal. The current version is wood core with the basalt and carbon mesh layer.

The E84 HD does not have metal either. The E100 (and the E98 before it), on the other hand, is a metal laminate and skis like it.

 

[Jay Carver]

@Jay Carver, the reason is that although both skis are 88mm underfoot, and generally pitched for the same on-mountain scenarios, they are VERY different skis in feel and typically would not be cross-shopped by the same skier.

The Monster 88 is a metal laminate, more stiff, more damp, more powerful. The Rossi 88 is lighter (feeling) without the metal, it feels sharp and quick on the snow but is less smooth and powerful - I haven't compared side by side, but I would bet that the Rossi 88 is softer flexing. I also think that the shape of the Rossi, the hammer nose and more flared tail cause it to initially pull in and stay locked into a turn more with less input, but it is kind of "techie" in a weird way, because if you want to do anything other than make 17m turns on soft groomers, you need to know what you are doing to engage and disengage the edge. So, for the same reasons that a lot of instructors like the E88 as a teaching/exam tool, I am not convinced that it is the best choice for an aspiring intermediate getting low edge angles, likely washing out the finish of every turn.

.

Hi Lewy really helpful insight into the Monster 88 and Rossi and how they ski. I now understand that the Monster 88 is not the ski for me at the moment but its one I like the sound of. What height and weight are you ,and how would you describe your level of skiing. I presume that you are predominately going down the fall line at a reasonable speed and depending on weight you are generating the power needed to bend the Monster 88 in the way that you want to and need to in order to get the performance out of the ski.At 6´and 190 LBS and a relatively fit skier I don´t have the confidence or skill yet to take the fall line at the speed. Not being familiar with the different terms one uses to describe different skiing techniques, are you carving large, small turns down the fall line or are you skidding more, sorry to be so ignorant?

Lewy you are right in you understanding of the HD suffix, it indicates it uses a Carbon Alloy Matrix.and giving quotes from another review ".Where the new HD mesh is most noticeable is in enhanced edge grip, resulting in a calmer ride wherever its magic touch was applied. The acid test of its effectiveness was its incorporation into the Experience 88, already a highly decorated veteran of the All-Mountain East brigade. The results are exhilarating. Everything feels tighter and firmer, like plastic surgery that worked for once. (“Say, have you lost weight?”)".

 

[Jay Carver]

I demoed the Monster 88 last season and loved it. Enough to buy one! Just a superb all mountain ski for typical skied out Colorado resort conditions. Damp, stable, fun, smooth and to me easy for all day on the hill. Fast, slow it did not matter the Monster wast just a refined ride for me. I got it in 184cm length so can't speak for the shorter lengths but man, If you are a decent skier it is a great buy. For days with fresh snow I have a wider pair of skis.

I have not tried the experience series from Rossi in a few years but I did not like them. Nose too "hooky" for my taste. Really nice when on edge but that is about it. Not versatile at all. More of a widish carver than an all mountain ski. At least thats what I felt.

Hi Ken can you tell me your height and weight and level of experience, and are you skiing mostly in the fall line?

 

[Jay Carver]

@Jay Carver, the reason is that although both skis are 88mm underfoot, and generally pitched for the same on-mountain scenarios, they are VERY different skis in feel and typically would not be cross-shopped by the same skier.

The Monster 88 is a metal laminate, more stiff, more damp, more powerful. The Rossi 88 is lighter (feeling) without the metal, it feels sharp and quick on the snow but is less smooth and powerful - I haven't compared side by side, but I would bet that the Rossi 88 is softer flexing. I also think that the shape of the Rossi, the hammer nose and more flared tail cause it to initially pull in and stay locked into a turn more with less input, but it is kind of "techie" in a weird way, because if you want to do anything other than make 17m turns on soft groomers, you need to know what you are doing to engage and disengage the edge. So, for the same reasons that a lot of instructors like the E88 as a teaching/exam tool, I am not convinced that it is the best choice for an aspiring intermediate getting low edge angles, likely washing out the finish of every turn.
.

Hi Lewy, sorry for my lack of ski knowledge but I am really interested in your reference to your comment"because if you want to do anything other than make 17m turns on soft groomers, you need to know what you are doing to engage and disengage the edge". I only ski 5 days a year and have only got back to skiing during the last 5 years after a break of 23yrs when i skied every year for 6 years, 5 days each year, so don´t have much knowledge and experience, hence joining Pugski. Last year was really the first year of carving (well thats what I think I was doing, and it felt great) and I have now got much for confidence to skiing up to easy blacks with confidence (I am skiing as I am not rolling or falling or sliding on my ass), it may not be pretty but for the last 4 years I was struggling on easy read runs. The secret was i was using the NRGY 100 169, which I believe was too short but I could control easily and the edges were sharp, before that i was skiing a Salomon 2010/11 24 hr, which didn´t have sharp edges (I have now got them sharpened). Skiing the NRGY 100s I am mostly skiing medium carving turns down the fall line and a slowish (new word) speed (20-25 mph) and I didn´t have any problem in changing from Edge to Edge in order to change direction. I am therefore interested when you say that the tails on the Rossi 88 need to be disengaged (is that the same as saying they get hooked up), I am not sure what you mean by this as I have not experienced it, thanks.

 

[François Pugh]

HD is a marketing term. It is strongly associated with "Heavy Duty", meaning srtonger, more robust, more durable, bigger, badder, better, more bad-ass. The Rossi HD gets the moniker for it's basalt-carbon.

BTW RD (from Head) is "race department", meaning more like a racing ski.

@Jay Carver Sharp edges really do make a difference on hard snow, as does technique improvement, you may find that 24 hr has improved a lot since you skied it dull and at a lower skill level.
Cheers!

 

[markojp]

Good info from Lewy! I think I know the guy who sold his to him. Lewy isn't a big guy. I'm not huge, but guess I'm 30 lbs or so heavier. Lewy, you have a 177 if I recall. I ski the 184, the point being that mass matters in choosing length.

As others have said, these are both very good but very different skis. Personally, I feel the newest Rossi E-88HD is a huuuge improvement over the first iteration. The carbon mesh makes them torsionally stiff enough to matter. The e-88 is quicker turning and lighter underfoot. They both track through variable off piste very well with the Monster being more unflappable at higher speeds and bigger turns if that's what you do.

I prefer the M88. It's hands down my favorite ski in the 85-90 class (disclosure, I'm a hill rep for Head), but would be absolutely happy skiing the E-88 if I were on the Rossi program. If someone's looking for a ski between the M and E 88, that's where the Renoun Z-90 comes in and what makes it such a good ski! Another ski that should be in more discussions is the E-84HD. It's downright fun, easy to ski, and highly under rated IMHO.

 

[Crudmaster]

Mark

... that's where the Renoun Z-90 comes in and what makes it such a good ski!

Where'd you demo a Renoun Z-90? I'm crazy about well-damped skis, and gotta try 'em.

 

[markojp]

Mark



Where'd you demo a Renoun Z-90? I'm crazy about well-damped skis, and gotta try 'em.

Some guy with a website had a pair... in Canada, eh?

 

[Philpug]

I am said guy that has the Z90's that @markojp is referring to. Yes it is one of those rare skis that gets under your skin and you look for reasons to take out. For @Jay Carver it is a ski that has the shape of the E88 with the dampening of the Head...at a price that is equal to both skis combined. If you are intrigued, we can talk about the attributes or you can just search the site for hours of information that will have you reaching for your wallet. We can also go back to your original question comparing the Monster and the E88. Both of these skis are demanding in their own way and are very different which has been addressed very well by other members. It really comes down to what YOU want.

 

[markojp]

I'm still glad you didn't 'unfriend' me after I said I was still partial to the M88. (But the Renoun is a fine, fine, ski.)

 

[Ken_R]

Hi Ken can you tell me your height and weight and level of experience, and are you skiing mostly in the fall line?

I am 6'-2" and 185 lbs. Advanced skier and trying to improve. Mostly ski off trail but enjoy groomers every once in a while.

HERE is a video of me in Ski Santa Fe, NM (season closer day), Awesome place.

 

[Philpug]

I'm still glad you didn't 'unfriend' me after I said I was still partial to the M88. (But the Renoun is a fine, fine, ski.)

I can't unfriend someone for being wrong

 

[markojp]

Jay, I re-read your post and saw your concerns about fall line vs. less so.... FWIW, the Monsters will make a lot of different turn shapes both skidded, railed, and everthing in between. Where Lewy and I ski a good bit, turn shape (round) is critical for speed control... It's steep. Less skilled skiers will windshield wiper down the hill and lack consistency and flow. None of the skis mentioned in this thread are really made for windshield wiper turns. All will help an advanced skier develop their skill sets and all excel at making 'C' shaped turns vs. 'Z's'.

The M88 is a powerful, versatile ski that rewards a skill set, but is manageable for upper intermediate skiers so long as the length is appropriate. There are several great options in the 85-90 category that all ski very well and happily make a variety of turn shapes. A pair of dynastar powertrack 89's on closeout be a great choice for many folks as well. Other great skis in this group are the Stoeckli SR 88, the Kastle MX 88/89, the latter being much closer in feel and performance to the M88 than a Rossi E88 HD. A lot of folks 'loving' yet struggling on their MX 88's would have been much better served by the Stoeckli and still had the 'refined' ride they were paying for. Anyhow....