XC Glide Wax

[Tom K.]

Well, schnitzel, I'm down to a nub in each color of low-fluoro xc wax.

I've been using the same stuff for a long time. So long that I'm not 100% sure what it is, but I believe Toko or Swix LF7 and LF8.

Soliciting input on what I should buy.

Calling @Primoz, @Tony S, @Slim and others.

Thanks!

 

[Primoz]

Not sure if I understood right what you want to know, so ignore it if I didn't
I would suggest to stick with one line for recreational skiing. It gets too complicated otherwise. Both Toko and Swix are good and I would certainly pick any of these two over anything else for single line. Nowadays I'm mostly on Swix, as that comes real cheap (read: for free ), but back when I was still in business I used Toko more then Swix (or anything else). It works good enough, and it's has relatively wide range, so few degrees off in real life from weather report based on which you were waxing previous evening, is not that big deal.
So personally I would go with Swix LF8 and LF7, and that's it. About 90% of time I use HF8 and HF7 and other from the line I use so rarely I wouldn't care much, even if I wouldn't have them.

 

[cantunamunch]

Not sure if I understood right what you want to know, so ignore it if I didn't

I read the question a little different.

So personally I would go with Swix LF8 and LF7, and that's it. About 90% of time I use HF8 and HF7 and other from the line I use so rarely I wouldn't care much, even if I wouldn't have them.

Assume for the minute that LF8 and LF7 are no longer available to us mere civilians - which of the non-fluoro replacements would give the best useful envelope that matches LF7?

Is it HS7?

I don't know the answer, honestly. HS approx $.67 per gram, TS is approx $2 per gram - pretty much every vendor in the wax space has non-fluoro product in the $1/gr space.

 

[Primoz]

Don't take this as much now, as I'm still on HF line, and hopefully will remain for long long time, so I have really really little experience with new Swix line. But basically it's what name already says... PS < HS < TS.
PS = Performance speed and sort of similar to old CH line.
HS = High speed and sort of similar to old LF
TS = Top speed and sort of similar to old HF

I also have absolutely zero idea about prices (lucky me ) but your numbers were really weird for me, so I went to check few online stores... guys I strongly suggest you to start shopping online on our side of the ocean. First two links I found for Swix TS7B:
USA: $74.95 for 40g pack
Europe: 42,45eur ($47.67) for 40g pack
I'm sure one 40g pack would be too much with shipping, custom etc. but if you buy whole year stock, I'm sure it's worth checking EU stores, as price difference seems to be insane.

 

[cantunamunch]

HS = High speed and sort of similar to old LF
TS = Top speed and sort of similar to old HF

That's really my question, not the price or the market tiers. How similar is 'sort of similar' ?

 

[Tom K.]

Well, I found some probably contraband LF8 on Amazon. Four left. Bought two.

No luck on LF7 so went HS7.

I almost sent @Primoz a PM stating "send me half your wax stash, or the dummy gets it!" but I wasn't sure if it would translate!

 

[Primoz]

@cantunamunch based on Swix PR it's sort of similar but way better, so you get more with HS then you did with LF and more with TS as you did with HF. Based on few people not into marketing and PR, but in ski and wax testing, it's sort of similar but worse I tend to believe those guys who are on field, use these waxes every day and do 1000s of tests, rather then those sitting in warm offices writing nicely sounding words and have never waxed skis in their life, and most likely wouldn't feel difference between ski prepared for winning Olympic medal and wooden plank.

Considering everyone on WC tour (alpine and xc) are still using old HF waxes, I think tells enough. But then again, I'm pretty sure new waxes are not THAT bad, so for normal people, I don't think difference will be that noticeable. When 1sec on 50k race can make difference between gold and no medal at all, any difference matters, for normal people, where difference would probably mean 10sec on training session, where it really doesn't matter if you are 10sec faster or slower, I think it's not that bad. But if you have chance to get old HF/LF waxes, I would take those rather then new ones.

 

[jt10000]

I used Solda a lot in the past (in part due to a deal), and their more fluorinated waxes are still reasonably priced in the large sizes. Their F15 and F31 Violet and Orange in particular are very versatile performers. This was for fun and low-level racing.

Solda F15 Medium Fluor Ski Wax

- Solda's F15 wax is their popular line of medium fluorinated glide wax. - Excellent balance of quality and price that makes it the go-to wax for many athletes and ski enthusiasts alike. - A...

www.webcyclery.com

 

[DoggParadox]

@cantunamunch based on Swix PR it's sort of similar but way better, so you get more with HS then you did with LF and more with TS as you did with HF. Based on few people not into marketing and PR, but in ski and wax testing, it's sort of similar but worse I tend to believe those guys who are on field, use these waxes every day and do 1000s of tests, rather then those sitting in warm offices writing nicely sounding words and have never waxed skis in their life, and most likely wouldn't feel difference between ski prepared for winning Olympic medal and wooden plank.

Considering everyone on WC tour (alpine and xc) are still using old HF waxes, I think tells enough. But then again, I'm pretty sure new waxes are not THAT bad, so for normal people, I don't think difference will be that noticeable. When 1sec on 50k race can make difference between gold and no medal at all, any difference matters, for normal people, where difference would probably mean 10sec on training session, where it really doesn't matter if you are 10sec faster or slower, I think it's not that bad. But if you have chance to get old HF/LF waxes, I would take those rather then new ones.

I'd change this to say that if you can find the old flouro stuff and have a ventilated waxing space and a respirator then take those.

Flouros were banned because they're (more) toxic (than most flouro free waxes)

 

[Tom K.]

I used Solda a lot in the past (in part due to a deal), and their more fluorinated waxes are still reasonably priced in the large sizes. Their F15 and F31 Violet and Orange in particular are very versatile performers. This was for fun and low-level racing.

Solda F15 Medium Fluor Ski Wax

- Solda's F15 wax is their popular line of medium fluorinated glide wax. - Excellent balance of quality and price that makes it the go-to wax for many athletes and ski enthusiasts alike. - A...

www.webcyclery.com

And from a GREAT bike shop, to boot (saved us at the beginning of a month-long mtb road trip once).

But I pulled the trigger too quickly, darn it.

 

[Primoz]

@DoggParadox I totally agree with respirator (well ventilated space is must for any kind of waxing anyway), and I have always been using it since 1995 or so (proper one, as not all respirators help, but you need to have appropriate filters for them to be effective with waxing and vapors at waxing). Even though if you asked Swix PR guys in past, they HF overlays were absolutely not toxic. You could inhale that stuff for breakfast and all would be good (they forgot to mention Swix told their own service guys they must use respirators for all fluoro waxing for decades)
But reason why they will be banned is pure politics and nothing else. Sure they will be banned because they are more toxic and they are, but those few kilos of fluor that goes into ski waxes is nothing compared to other uses, which are perfectly fine based on regulations, so it's not that environment will be saved because of fluoro waxes ban. And if FIS would really care about technicians health, they wouldn't bother about banning fluoro waxes, but about making rules how waxing cabins should be equipped. At least for WC, WCH and Olympics, it could be done, as xc tour is proving, while for alpine, everything is good from darkest and totally non-ventilated garage to waxing rooms made in shipping container with no windows and any other ventilation option on WC/WCH/Olympics venues. But instead of making rules how waxing rooms should be equipped, they rather bother with finding ways how to police fluoro usage. And sorry for offtopic

 

[DoggParadox]

@DoggParadox I totally agree with respirator (well ventilated space is must for any kind of waxing anyway), and I have always been using it since 1995 or so (proper one, as not all respirators help, but you need to have appropriate filters for them to be effective with waxing and vapors at waxing). Even though if you asked Swix PR guys in past, they HF overlays were absolutely not toxic. You could inhale that stuff for breakfast and all would be good (they forgot to mention Swix told their own service guys they must use respirators for all fluoro waxing for decades)
But reason why they will be banned is pure politics and nothing else. Sure they will be banned because they are more toxic and they are, but those few kilos of fluor that goes into ski waxes is nothing compared to other uses, which are perfectly fine based on regulations, so it's not that environment will be saved because of fluoro waxes ban. And if FIS would really care about technicians health, they wouldn't bother about banning fluoro waxes, but about making rules how waxing cabins should be equipped. At least for WC, WCH and Olympics, it could be done, as xc tour is proving, while for alpine, everything is good from darkest and totally non-ventilated garage to waxing rooms made in shipping container with no windows and any other ventilation option on WC/WCH/Olympics venues. But instead of making rules how waxing rooms should be equipped, they rather bother with finding ways how to police fluoro usage. And sorry for offtopic

Agree with all of this.

I think that Zach Caldwell did a pretty good of explaining it all on the Devon Kershaw podcast (if anyone wants more info).