Winterstiger Jupiter Variable V-Edge tuning technology.

[Johnems]

I have a chance to have my skis tuned on a Jupiter.​

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I have a question about V Edge tunning. Below is the description for this tech. I am wondering how you maintain the side edge tune. I generally try to touch up my edges often. I normally do 1 Degre base and 2-degree side bevel. Wondering if I should not have this done when I get them tuned.​

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Unfortunately, the Jupiter is not close for me to take in to have it maintained by the machine.​

​

Thanks John​

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V-Edge®​

Variable V-Edge tuning technology.​

The best edge tuning improved!​

The edge is ground with variable angles in the tip and tail areas, and at a constant angle underfoot – on both the base edge and side edge. V-Edge works with the three performance categories that are also provided in the Tune Pilot, to provide tried and tested parameters efficiently and, optionally, with automatic ski recognition. Perfect edge grip and easy turning of the ski are combined for the ultimate skiing experience. V-Edge is available for both the disc module and the polishing module.

With the "automatic ski recognition" option, changes to the edge angles in V-Edge mode take place fully automatically. The edge angles are variable along the ski length. Underfoot the skis have a dynamic edge angle for optimum grip and guidance on hard artificial snow and ice. The edge angle is greater in the tip and tail for easy control and movement in the turns. In addition to the entirely new skiing experience, this also significantly enhances safety.

Precise, variable edge grinding takes place on the base and side edges, entirely independent of ski length and width, and based either on the predefined and tested parameters or on-the-fly, which can then be saved in Easyrent.

 

[Philpug]

Review: - Wintersteiger Jupiter -- For an out of this world tune.

Checking out Wintersteiger's Jupiter tuning machine

www.skitalk.com

More discussion here;

Review: - Wintersteiger Jupiter -- For an out of this world tune.

Checking out Wintersteiger's Jupiter tuning machine

www.skitalk.com

 

[Toddski13]

I have a chance to have my skis tuned on a Jupiter.​

​

I have a question about V Edge tunning. Below is the description for this tech. I am wondering how you maintain the side edge tune. I generally try to touch up my edges often. I normally do 1 Degre base and 2-degree side bevel. Wondering if I should not have this done when I get them tuned.​

​

Unfortunately, the Jupiter is not close for me to take in to have it maintained by the machine.​

​

Thanks John​

​

​

V-Edge®​

Variable V-Edge tuning technology.​

The best edge tuning improved!​

The edge is ground with variable angles in the tip and tail areas, and at a constant angle underfoot – on both the base edge and side edge. V-Edge works with the three performance categories that are also provided in the Tune Pilot, to provide tried and tested parameters efficiently and, optionally, with automatic ski recognition. Perfect edge grip and easy turning of the ski are combined for the ultimate skiing experience. V-Edge is available for both the disc module and the polishing module.

With the "automatic ski recognition" option, changes to the edge angles in V-Edge mode take place fully automatically. The edge angles are variable along the ski length. Underfoot the skis have a dynamic edge angle for optimum grip and guidance on hard artificial snow and ice. The edge angle is greater in the tip and tail for easy control and movement in the turns. In addition to the entirely new skiing experience, this also significantly enhances safety.

Precise, variable edge grinding takes place on the base and side edges, entirely independent of ski length and width, and based either on the predefined and tested parameters or on-the-fly, which can then be saved in Easyrent.

John,

Have them do 'P' edge on your side edge (non-variable) and you'll be able to maintain them just fine in between machine services. Don't touch your base edge besides a ceramic stone to knock down the burr you create doing side edge and you won't impact the variable base bevel.

One piece that I would highly recommend, even if you're far away from the machine - go more aggressive underfoot than you would think... if you're generally running 1 degree consistent base bevel go with .6 or .7 underfoot and 1.0 for 15-20% (that is how it's set in the machine) on both tip and tail. I would rather take my skis off and walk down than ski .5 or below, but .7/.3/.7 v-edge skis like a dream for me on any front side ski and I take that up to .9/.5/.9 for anything wider than 95mm under foot. Base bevel is subjective, but I've had a tremendous amount of positive feedback going more aggressive with base bevel than the end-users thought was practical.

Hope that helps.

Todd

 

[Henry]

Without access to a variable machine, I've had good results by getting the shop to grind the base edges to the aggressive angle, then feathering the tips (for about a foot back) and the tails (for about 6") with a less aggressive angle. When I started using 0.7° base, for the first year I hand filed the base edge at the tip and tail to 1°. That worked great as I got the feeling for the more aggressive base, now it's 0.7 all the way. Maybe I should try the same thing using 0.7 at the tip & tail and 0.5 the rest of the way?

For those of us without access to a Jupiter, is the Montana's Radial Tune very similar?

 

[Johnems]

John,

Have them do 'P' edge on your side edge (non-variable) and you'll be able to maintain them just fine in between machine services. Don't touch your base edge besides a ceramic stone to knock down the burr you create doing side edge and you won't impact the variable base bevel.

One piece that I would highly recommend, even if you're far away from the machine - go more aggressive underfoot than you would think... if you're generally running 1 degree consistent base bevel go with .6 or .7 underfoot and 1.0 for 15-20% (that is how it's set in the machine) on both tip and tail. I would rather take my skis off and walk down than ski .5 or below, but .7/.3/.7 v-edge skis like a dream for me on any front side ski and I take that up to .9Xtockly/.5/.9 for anything wider than 95mm under foot. Base bevel is subjective, but I've had a tremendous amount of positive feedback going more aggressive with base bevel than the end-users thought was practical.

Hope that helps.

Todd

Thank you for your information. Very very useful. I like your suggestion on getting more aggressive under foot.

The reason I do 1 degree base and 2-degree side is that is factory recommended for my skies. (Stockli Laser GS) See below

Again, thanks for all who responded for your help. Thanks John

.

EDGE GRINDING EX WORKS​

Ski	Hanging edge	Side edge
Laser WRT	1°	2°
Laser WRT Pro	1°	2°
Laser GS	1°	2°
Laser SL	1°	2°
Laser SC	1°	2°
Laser SC Orea	1°	2°
Laser MX	1°	2°
Laser CX	1°	2°
Laser SX	1°	2°

​

 

[Tricia]

John,

Have them do 'P' edge on your side edge (non-variable) and you'll be able to maintain them just fine in between machine services. Don't touch your base edge besides a ceramic stone to knock down the burr you create doing side edge and you won't impact the variable base bevel.

One piece that I would highly recommend, even if you're far away from the machine - go more aggressive underfoot than you would think... if you're generally running 1 degree consistent base bevel go with .6 or .7 underfoot and 1.0 for 15-20% (that is how it's set in the machine) on both tip and tail. I would rather take my skis off and walk down than ski .5 or below, but .7/.3/.7 v-edge skis like a dream for me on any front side ski and I take that up to .9/.5/.9 for anything wider than 95mm under foot. Base bevel is subjective, but I've had a tremendous amount of positive feedback going more aggressive with base bevel than the end-users thought was practical.

Hope that helps.

Todd

 

[dbostedo]

Thank you for your information. Very very useful. I like your suggestion on getting more aggressive under foot.

The reason I do 1 degree base and 2-degree side is that is factory recommended for my skies. (Stockli Laser GS) See below

Again, thanks for all who responded for your help. Thanks John

.

EDGE GRINDING EX WORKS​

Ski	Hanging edge	Side edge
Laser WRT	1°	2°
Laser WRT Pro	1°	2°
Laser GS	1°	2°
Laser SL	1°	2°
Laser SC	1°	2°
Laser SC Orea	1°	2°
Laser MX	1°	2°
Laser CX	1°	2°
Laser SX	1°	2°

​

I'll note that factory recommendations are just a nice middle ground for a majority of skiers, many of whom won't care what their edge angles are. There's nothing special about them or matched to the skis, conditions, or your skiing. 1/2 is kind of the default for most shops and most skis (or maybe 1/1 for soft-snow skis).

It's doesn't mean that's what the edge of those skis need to be at for everyone... your edge angles are a personal choice depending on what you like, and whether or not you care.

 

[Swiss Toni]

The reason I do 1 degree base and 2-degree side is that is factory recommended for my skies. (Stockli Laser GS) See below

Those are the edge angles they set at the factory, they are staring points rather than recommendations. You might find that other edge angles work better.

The edge angles given in the table are not necessarily the edge angles that the skis will have when they leave the factory. It isn’t possible to grind ski edges to exactly 1° / 2° or whatever, the tolerance is usually ±0.25°. Ideally it should state this in the table.

 

[Toddski13]

Thank you for your information. Very very useful. I like your suggestion on getting more aggressive under foot.

The reason I do 1 degree base and 2-degree side is that is factory recommended for my skies. (Stockli Laser GS) See below

Again, thanks for all who responded for your help. Thanks John

.

EDGE GRINDING EX WORKS​

Ski	Hanging edge	Side edge
Laser WRT	1°	2°
Laser WRT Pro	1°	2°
Laser GS	1°	2°
Laser SL	1°	2°
Laser SC	1°	2°
Laser SC Orea	1°	2°
Laser MX	1°	2°
Laser CX	1°	2°
Laser SX	1°	2°

​

John,

As SwissToni points out, those are starting points, but especially with base bevel, doing a small amount of testing will quickly tell you what you like versus what the manufacturer aims for in production. I’ve made similar comments in other posts, and will say that Stockli is better than most, but the factory accuracy for base bevel often leaves a lot to be desired… I’m in the middle of preparing skis for a sales rep (I won’t pick on the brand) and even their cheater SL skis have more than 1.0 degrees of base bevel out of the wrapper. Some of their 95-105 under foot skis are closer to 2.0. Yet, their ‘spec’ is .75 for the cheater skis and 1.0 for the wider stuff. Don’t let the guidelines the manufacturers publish steer you away from what works for you.

 

[Johnems]

John,

As SwissToni points out, those are starting points, but especially with base bevel, doing a small amount of testing will quickly tell you what you like versus what the manufacturer aims for in production. I’ve made similar comments in other posts, and will say that Stockli is better than most, but the factory accuracy for base bevel often leaves a lot to be desired… I’m in the middle of preparing skis for a sales rep (I won’t pick on the brand) and even their cheater SL skis have more than 1.0 degrees of base bevel out of the wrapper. Some of their 95-105 under foot skis are closer to 2.0. Yet, their ‘spec’ is .75 for the cheater skis and 1.0 for the wider stuff. Don’t let the guidelines the manufacturers publish steer you away from what works for you.

Thank you for your thoughts. I am going to most likely try .075 degree on the base bevel and stick with 2-degree side and see how it skies. Again, thank you all your comments. I love the form in that there are a lot of great tuners on this page sharing very muck state of the art information that is very useful. . Thanks John

 

[Atomicman]

Thank you for your thoughts. I am going to most likely try .075 degree on the base bevel and stick with 2-degree side and see how it skies. Again, thank you all your comments. I love the form in that there are a lot of great tuners on this page sharing very muck state of the art information that is very useful. . Thanks John

It's .75 not .075, 3/4 of 1 degree. A 3/4 of a mm gap, 60mm across the ski, when the tru-bar is matched to the base edge angle, would be .75 degree. A 1mm gap = 1 degree.

Good luck with the radial tune. I found it not to MY liking the times I have tried i, but to each is own. I want my tips hooking up first, not the center of the ski. It made it feel like underfoot was closer to snow than the tips and built pressure in the middle of the ski. Just doesn't work for me. In my avatar you can see where the snow is coming off my skis. At the tips!

You should put a 3 degree side edge on the GS ski.Also, the radial tune has no bearing on the side edge. Your side edge bevel tool measures off of the p-tex not the metal base edge.

 

[Johnems]

It's .75 not .075, 3/4 of 1 degree. A 3/4 of a mm gap, 60mm across the ski, when the tru-bar is matched to the base edge angle, would be .75 degree. A 1mm gap = 1 degree.

Good luck with the radial tune. I found it not to MY liking the times I have tried i, but to each is own. I want my tips hooking up first, not the center of the ski. It made it feel like underfoot was closer to snow than the tips and built pressure in the middle of the ski. Just doesn't work for me. In my avatar you can see where the snow is coming off my skis. At the tips!

You should put a 3 degree side edge on the GS ski.Also, the radial tune has no bearing on the side edge. Your side edge bevel tool measures off of the p-tex not the metal base edge.

You are absolute correct in correcting my math error.

On additional question if I may. Years ago, (1980;s) at some tuning clinic I attended a discussion was had about side bevels and how 2-degree side angles would last longer than a 3 degree. I am an eastern skier who is up on the hill making first runs to open the area and do sweep at the end of the day to close. My thinking on 2 degree was it would hold a sharper edge longer. Often, I need my edges later in the day due to conditions usually boiler plate and type skiing I am doing haling sleds. I am not sure that is still true today give the higher quality steal use in today skies. I also get now with shaped skis 3-degree side bevel will enhance performance so my thinking may be outdated on side bevel.

Again, that you help and support to get me to a good set up.

Thanks John

 

[Atomicman]

You are absolute correct in correcting my math error.

On additional question if I may. Years ago, (1980;s) at some tuning clinic I attended a discussion was had about side bevels and how 2-degree side angles would last longer than a 3 degree. I am an eastern skier who is up on the hill making first runs to open the area and do sweep at the end of the day to close. My thinking on 2 degree was it would hold a sharper edge longer. Often, I need my edges later in the day due to conditions usually boiler plate and type skiing I am doing haling sleds. I am not sure that is still true today give the higher quality steal use in today skies. I also get now with shaped skis 3-degree side bevel will enhance performance so my thinking may be outdated on side bevel.

Again, that you help and support to get me to a good set up.

Thanks John

HI John, there is no data whatsoever that supports a 2 lasting longer than a 3. I think it's an old wives tale handed dodwn and won't die! I have a 3 degree on every pair of my skis (except my Atomic Redster FIS SL's which have a 4 degree). Nordica Enforcer 100, 110. Atomic Redster 183 24M, Atomic DD 188 30M.

I have been using a 3 degree for many many years and can't say that they stay sharp any less than a 2.

From SkiMD:

Properly Finished Base Edge Angle Is Essential​

It is a fact that a properly finished base edge angle residing between .5-1.0 degrees, allow all categories of skis and snowboards to perform at their best. No ski factory recommends base edge angles to exceed 1.0 degree! SkiMD produces all base edge angles with a median tolerance of 0.5 degrees. If your skis or snowboard are reluctant to go right and left, or wander when going straight, it means you have too much base bevel or an improperly finished base structure. SkiMD produces side edge angles at 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 degree. 2.0 degree is used for jr. skis and powder skis. 3.0 degree is used for narrower performance recreational and race skis, while SL and GS skis have the option of being produced at 4.0 degrees. More factories are realizing that it’s worth the hassle to recalibrate side edge machinery to this parameter. Why? Because shaped skis are able to achieve higher tip angles with greater leverage than straight skis. As a result, skis with less than 3 degrees of side edge will have a tendency to chatter and become duller quicker as a result of skidding more and cutting less. Never let anyone try to convince you that this is too radical, or that it gets duller quicker. No information exists to support that theory. The difference in material removal between a 3 or 4 degree side edge angle is truly minimal over a side edge height of 2-2.5 millimeters. However, the difference in performance when asking your skis to do what you want is profound. If your skis when tipped on edge, it means your side edge angle is incorrect.

HIs Credentials:

Mike deSantis, SkiMD Founder & Owner​

Mike deSantis founded, owns and operates SkiMD. His experience is unsurpassed at the retail level, allowing the beginner through expert, or racing participant, access to factory level service. His 30 years of continual development has created an ideal refinishing system that works for everyone. While at Volkl, Mike was overwhelmed with the negative feedback on the company website from consumers with regard to their first “shop stonegrind.” The retail effort back then and now continue to be apathetic regarding the proper restoration and installation of tuning parameters. Realizing the need for someone in the ski service industry who could consistently deliver the proper finish to shaped skis and snowboards is what prompted Mike to leave Volkl and develop the SkiMD Refinishing System. Mike’s extensive industry background, combined with 51 years in the sport of skiing, are instrumental to his success.

- Graduate Stratton Mountain Ski Academy - 1979 - NCAA competitor UVM Ski Team
- Physical Education Degree UVM - 1984
- 7 years World Cup Technician/WC Race Director for Volkl
- 4 years Product Development Manager for Volkl
- Member Volkl International Test Team
- Lifetime Achievement Award for excellence in the fields of World Cup Service and Product Development for
Volkl Skis
- Technical service consultant for Volkl, Blizzard, Dynastar and Elan skis

Mike created his own proprietary finishes for top athletes such as Hilary Lindh, the '97 DH World Champion. Kate Pace, the '93 DH World Champion. Katja Seizinger, the overall World Cup women’s downhill winner many seasons over. Other athletes include Picabo Street, Kristina Koznick, Heidi Voelker, and former U.S. Snowboarding Team athlete Rosy Fletcher, Olympic Bronze medalist. Working in tandem with Volkl Germany, allowed Mike access to some of the very best factory technicians in the world. Combined with his deep factory knowledge of ski design and construction, the foundation was built to create a system that has demonstrated a broad level of success. This is what truly differentiates SkiMD from all the rest.

 

[Johnems]

Again, thank you for this great information. I had recently heard about SKIMS and clearly know about ski tunning. I will definitely go with 3-degree side bevel. What I like about this form is that we can debunk bad information. Clearly you have helped me do that. When I get them dome I will PM you and let you know how it goes. Thanks John