Buddy that I follow everyday shows his flex range.That's a telemarker, so yes, excellent at flexing
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Why flex to release
- Thread starter Rod9301
- Start date
no problem getting forward there...
That’d kill me!
Newest member of our daily crew was shocked yesterday when we intentionally pulled up to vertical slope of pond ice and I said time to practice ice turning. We dropped in one by one making turns on ice that most skiers avoid like the plague. When you like to ski the best steeps in the Northeast like Catwalk at Killington, Goat at Stowe and Paradise at MRG pond ice turns are very helpful. Soft balanced flex to release turns work.
Last edited:
Dislaimer: I am a terrible reader due to and eye/brain connection issue, so I didn't read all the replies. So forgive me if I am repeating something someone else mentioned previously. Hopefully I can add something new.
"With older skis, the edge angles were a lot smaller, so the g forces also a lot smaller."
Back in the day the release of the turn was taught, in the terms of Georges Joubert as "avalement" (absorption) and "replement" (I honestly don't remember the direct translation in context but the dictionary calls it 'replanting'). We would learn it as up-unweighting and down-unweighting. Down unweighting was largely situationational. Most recreational skiers, due to the equipment available until the 90's used up-unweighting to initiate turns so the skis could more quickly be pointed down the fall line, where it was easier to engage the edges. As the turn was finished the angle of the slope contributed to increasing edge angle toward the end of each turn. However, "carving" back then would (for the most part) be called "scarving" today. Most of us didn't make railroad-track turns on older straighter skis. The upper portion of the turn was rarely carved. Of course, up-unweighted initiations are extensions. One of the first, most recognized ski teachers teaching railroad-track turns was Warren Witherell, but was largely ignored by the rank and file skiers and instructors.
With today's skis, our approach to the turn needs to be different because of the way skis are built. We often make railroad-track turns (or at least try) and try to begin true carving of the turn very early after initiation. There are a lot of reasons for retraction at initiation, several of which I will omit for the moment to keep it as simple as possible for this response. But if you think about it, if we want to carve the upper portion of the turn, that first phase of the turn is where the forces create the least amount of naturally occurring pressure in the turn. Keeping extension in reserve at initiation allows the skier to extend into that upper portion of the turn. Retracting the new inside ski as the turn develops allows continued pressure transfer to the outside ski. The natural forces at the end of the turn provide plenty of pressure where you do not need to keep a fully extended leg throughout. Retraction, as one ends one turn and initiates another, provides for smooth transitions from one turn to the next. In other words, one extends where you want to maintain good ski-snow contact where natural pressure is largely absent and flexes/retracts where there is sufficient, or too much pressure- where one doesn't need to extend. A lot depends on the dynamics of the situation. Note that this is a general statement because foot-to-foot flexion/extension adds another dimension to the conversation.
While I couldn't find an adequate description of "replement", I thought some might find Avalement interesting. Avalement and Georges Joubert
Again, I've left a lot out as my reply already has become a bit lengthy.
"With older skis, the edge angles were a lot smaller, so the g forces also a lot smaller."
Back in the day the release of the turn was taught, in the terms of Georges Joubert as "avalement" (absorption) and "replement" (I honestly don't remember the direct translation in context but the dictionary calls it 'replanting'). We would learn it as up-unweighting and down-unweighting. Down unweighting was largely situationational. Most recreational skiers, due to the equipment available until the 90's used up-unweighting to initiate turns so the skis could more quickly be pointed down the fall line, where it was easier to engage the edges. As the turn was finished the angle of the slope contributed to increasing edge angle toward the end of each turn. However, "carving" back then would (for the most part) be called "scarving" today. Most of us didn't make railroad-track turns on older straighter skis. The upper portion of the turn was rarely carved. Of course, up-unweighted initiations are extensions. One of the first, most recognized ski teachers teaching railroad-track turns was Warren Witherell, but was largely ignored by the rank and file skiers and instructors.
With today's skis, our approach to the turn needs to be different because of the way skis are built. We often make railroad-track turns (or at least try) and try to begin true carving of the turn very early after initiation. There are a lot of reasons for retraction at initiation, several of which I will omit for the moment to keep it as simple as possible for this response. But if you think about it, if we want to carve the upper portion of the turn, that first phase of the turn is where the forces create the least amount of naturally occurring pressure in the turn. Keeping extension in reserve at initiation allows the skier to extend into that upper portion of the turn. Retracting the new inside ski as the turn develops allows continued pressure transfer to the outside ski. The natural forces at the end of the turn provide plenty of pressure where you do not need to keep a fully extended leg throughout. Retraction, as one ends one turn and initiates another, provides for smooth transitions from one turn to the next. In other words, one extends where you want to maintain good ski-snow contact where natural pressure is largely absent and flexes/retracts where there is sufficient, or too much pressure- where one doesn't need to extend. A lot depends on the dynamics of the situation. Note that this is a general statement because foot-to-foot flexion/extension adds another dimension to the conversation.
While I couldn't find an adequate description of "replement", I thought some might find Avalement interesting. Avalement and Georges Joubert
Again, I've left a lot out as my reply already has become a bit lengthy.
...and the reason for this has to do with pressure distribution during a flex-to-release turn.
Underfoot pressure is spread out more evenly compared to an extension turn.
In an extension turn, they may be a pronounced float as the skier gets tall between turns and a "pounce" at apex as the skier lands. Edges aren't going to hold well - on ice - if such a pounce happens. You'd do better to sneak up on it. Your quads will thank you, too.
Not all extension turns produce a surge of pressure around the apex. And in some cases where that surge does happen, whether it comes from an extension or a flexion initiation, it can be just fine (I'm thinking quick turns down the fall line in bumps).
In any case, if the initiation causes the pressure to lighten momentarily, heavy pressure will happen afterwards.
Last edited:
Sponsor
Members online
- Even_Stevens
- nemesis256
- Nomax
- Philpug
- jmills115
- Victornbr
- E221b
- motogreg
- Pukesno
- Slemers
- BullMcCabe
- Jeronimo
- ilovepugs
- dbostedo
- arildGFB
- FrequentFlyer
- SkiMcP
- KimJongTr1ll
- Scrundy
- mikes781
- butleri
- tomahawkins
- ted
- Zirbl
- maximlloa
- GregK
- RachelV
- fundad77
- zircon
- salvatore
- JohnL
- aveski
- Varmintmist
- Nancy Hummel
- textrovert
- az29okg
- Andy Mink
- Scotty I.
- Brad J
- Jerez
- goaliedad
- LuliTheYounger
- NE1
- Mendieta
- crgildart
- charlier
- Drahtguy Kevin
- oldschoolskier
- Chris V.
- Mike King