[recreational tuning] Choosing base and side bevel angles

[Mendieta]

Oh Boy....Here we go with the F_ _ _ing West thing again and a 3 degree!

We call it diversity of opinions my friend I've heard opinions of real experts here in the west who prefer, either 2 or 3. Let's agree to disagree.


One of the benefits of this beautiful community is that we get to ski together. In my case, experts who skied with me and know where I ski, suggested when I moved to my Rallies that I do start with 2 on the side, and then move to a 3 when 2 feels comfortable. Since the latter has happened, I am moving my rallies over to 3 whenever I have a chance. But no rush. BTW, you do encounter ice here in the West, particularly in the melt-freeze cycle. Not to mention this season. We've been ice-skating for weeks!

Regardless, every time anybody gets out of their way to help me, I feel grateful. Cheers!

 

[Atomicman]

We call it diversity of opinions my friend I've heard opinions of real experts here in the west who prefer, either 2 or 3. Let's agree to disagree.


One of the benefits of this beautiful community is that we get to ski together. In my case, experts who skied with me and know where I ski, suggested when I moved to my Rallies that I do start with 2 on the side, and then move to a 3 when 2 feels comfortable. Since the latter has happened, I am moving my rallies over to 3 whenever I have a chance. But no rush. BTW, you do encounter ice here in the West, particularly in the melt-freeze cycle. Not to mention this season. We've been ice-skating for weeks!

Regardless, every time anybody gets out of their way to help me, I feel grateful. Cheers!

Of course all there is out west is Blower, a couple of Buffalo and an Indian Squaw or 2.

Let's just say a 3 works great out West and leave it at that, unless your edges have a GPS attached!

 

[Atomicman]

A-man,

We should go drinking whenever this starts up, numbs our senses to it.

G

I ALREADY STARTED!!!!

 

[DanoT]

I have inquired at 3 or 4 ski shops (in western US and western Canada) and asked the shop tech what edge angle he puts on a ski when a customer asks to have his ski sharpened but does not specify edge angles. Unanimous answer: 1/1. Small sample size, yes, but the answer is still worth pondering. Apparently the bulk of the skiing public does not want or is it not need ? or maybe they just cant handle high side edge angles.

Not all mountains in the west get the same snow quality, snow volume etc., but whenever the Sun Peaks locals complain about icy conditions, the skiers from eastern Canada laugh at us.

 

[oldschoolskier]

1/1 as a standard tune...must be the soon to be legalized weed in CANADA being smoked by the techs.

 

[Jacques]

I have inquired at 3 or 4 ski shops (in western US and western Canada) and asked the shop tech what edge angle he puts on a ski when a customer asks to have his ski sharpened but does not specify edge angles. Unanimous answer: 1/1. Small sample size, yes, but the answer is still worth pondering. Apparently the bulk of the skiing public does not want or is it not need ? or maybe they just cant handle high side edge angles.

Not all mountains in the west get the same snow quality, snow volume etc., but whenever the Sun Peaks locals complain about icy conditions, the skiers from eastern Canada laugh at us.

Very few recreational skiers can carve a turn skiing.
If they go to get skis serviced and have no idea what tuning edge angles are that pretty much tells them to do those angles.
If they did either a 1/2 or 1/3, they probably would not notice any difference. They are only using the base bevel anyway.

 

[Sibhusky]

The bigger place here does 1/1. The smaller specialty shops 1/2.

 

[BC.]

At my local shop here in NEPA.....unless customer has a request, the edge sharpening is as follows:

Rental Ski Tune- 1/1
Regular/Stone Tune- 1/2


* I personally use a 1/3 on mine/families skis. I prefer to hand tune all of them at home......enjoy the process.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I guess this why the skiers from the East or the Racers chant “Ice, Ice Baby” and laugh most skiers from the West

 

[Uncle-A]

I am not sure if or what this adds to the thread but FYI. When I purchased my Head Rally skis I started a Thread and I think I called it New Ski Prep. The question I asked the community was should I ski them as they came from the factory or prep the in some way. After listening to both sides I decided that I would check/test the base with a straight edge/true bar and decide from the results. The results of the test were very good so I skied them as they came from the factory. At the beginning of this season I did want to get them tuned but I decided that I would ski them one day to get the feel back and than have them tuned. I did that and got them tuned. Now I have used the same guy to tune my skis for a few years and have been happy with his work. I asked him to do a 1/3 edge on them as he has done for me in the past. I have skied them after the tune and found that the ski felt a little catchy in the first few runs in the morning, maybe I had to get use to the 1/3 edge compared the to factory edge. After the first few runs I settled in and they skied just fine, after lunch I did what I always try to do and that is to reverse the skis. from left to right. That is when it got interesting now I know that conditions change and I do get tired after lunch but the skis seemed to ski different, they did not ski poorly but the feel was just not the same. I know you will ask what was different and to tell the truth I am not sure I could give a point by point answer they just felt less secure on the edge. I do not have a gauge to check the side edge but he has always done a good job my equipment in the past. So PUG Pals what are your thoughts?

 

[oldschoolskier]

Burr.

 

[CalG]

I am not sure if or what this adds to the thread but FYI. When I purchased my Head Rally skis I started a Thread and I think I called it New Ski Prep. The question I asked the community was should I ski them as they came from the factory or prep the in some way. After listening to both sides I decided that I would check/test the base with a straight edge/true bar and decide from the results. The results of the test were very good so I skied them as they came from the factory. At the beginning of this season I did want to get them tuned but I decided that I would ski them one day to get the feel back and than have them tuned. I did that and got them tuned. Now I have used the same guy to tune my skis for a few years and have been happy with his work. I asked him to do a 1/3 edge on them as he has done for me in the past. I have skied them after the tune and found that the ski felt a little catchy in the first few runs in the morning, maybe I had to get use to the 1/3 edge compared the to factory edge. After the first few runs I settled in and they skied just fine, after lunch I did what I always try to do and that is to reverse the skis. from left to right. That is when it got interesting now I know that conditions change and I do get tired after lunch but the skis seemed to ski different, they did not ski poorly but the feel was just not the same. I know you will ask what was different and to tell the truth I am not sure I could give a point by point answer they just felt less secure on the edge. I do not have a gauge to check the side edge but he has always done a good job my equipment in the past. So PUG Pals what are your thoughts?

What was the "factory" geometry?
What changed in the "tune".

And if you switched right to left again, does "that good old feeling" return?

I do not "hand" my skis. And I tune for myself. I've not found a difference right to left ....... something is screwed up. Tip or tail detune? burr? Opps!?
Look at the edges with a hand glass.

 

[James]

Burr.

Me thinks.
Not a real bad one though or it would be...

The dreaded Aaron Burr.

To get rid of Aaron or his minions, take a fine hard stone and go along the base edge. Keep it flat to the base. You can use a 400 diamond stone or finer. If you have none of those gets some 600 wet/dry sandpaper wrapped on something flat. Use wet to keep wax at bay.

Lots of racers hand their skis. It's a habit from when young and one skied one pair of skis. So you had a race edge and an edge to ski to the race, slipping the course etc. One can do the same to even out wear or keep that gashed edge on the outside.

 

[Uncle-A]

What was the "factory" geometry?
What changed in the "tune".

And if you switched right to left again, does "that good old feeling" return?

I do not "hand" my skis. And I tune for myself. I've not found a difference right to left ....... something is screwed up. Tip or tail detune? burr? Opps!?
Look at the edges with a hand glass.

1. Factory Geometry? Bottoms flat not Convex or Concave as far as the edge angle I do not have a gauge to get a measurement.
2. What changed in the tune? The edge angle is 1/3 and I am only thinking that was not the factory edge angle.
3. Will have to get back to you on that "Good old feeling" after I ski them again.
Not convinced that it is screwed up based on history but will keep looking and an open mind.
Are you recommending detuning tip and tail because I have not done that on the newer design skis?

 

[oldschoolskier]

1. Factory Geometry? Bottoms flat not Convex or Concave as far as the edge angle I do not have a gauge to get a measurement.
2. What changed in the tune? The edge angle is 1/3 and I am only thinking that was not the factory edge angle.
3. Will have to get back to you on that "Good old feeling" after I ski them again.
Not convinced that it is screwed up based on history but will keep looking and an open mind.
Are you recommending detuning tip and tail because I have not done that on the newer design skis?

Detune....Bad.....VERY BAD....never ever detune.

No what’s is being recommended is to carefully remove the Burr with a light gentle touch. Read the instructions carefully in the earlier post.

Think of a burr as a fin that’s been added to the bottom of the ski during sharpening, except you don’t know how it’s set or how many. So when they grab they go in different directions than expected. So what you are doing is removing the fin(s) to get the edge you intended.

 

[Sibhusky]

A side question. What is this "hand" reference? Sounds like swapping skis right to left? Not understanding the term.

 

[Jacques]

A side question. What is this "hand" reference? Sounds like swapping skis right to left? Not understanding the term.

He is talking about not rotating the skis until the lesser used edge is needed. @James

 

[James]

A side question. What is this "hand" reference? Sounds like swapping skis right to left? Not understanding the term.

Yes, just being able to distinguish one ski from another. Then you can change skis to change the edge that's on the inside. Either to keep wear even, or keep one edge sharp for use on hard snow.
I use it mostly for keeping damage to the outside honestly.

 

[Sibhusky]

I don't try to randomize or use just one edge, but mostly seem to end up with skis on the same feet just because of the routine I use taking them on and off and clipping them together.

 

[Uncle-A]

A side question. What is this "hand" reference? Sounds like swapping skis right to left? Not understanding the term.

Yes it is using a Left Ski and a Right Ski, years ago when mounting bindings we would use the left boot to mount the left ski and the right boot for the right ski. I think it was because back when boots were made by hand and the leather sole on one boot was slightly different than right. Now that boot are made in molds that are made by tool makers the sole is the same. It is less important so they can be rotated to ware evenly. I switch skis after lunch and the next time out I start with the ski from the afternoon because I do not ski as much after lunch.