Overlap to Cabrio....Did I make a mistake?

[Idahosnow]

It was way past time to retire my boots. My new boots are growing on me, but It's not love. Any advice is appreciated.

Old Boots: Very old Lange Banshee, Intuition powerwrap, punched for 6th toe. 300 BSL. Were great but started getting a lot of shin bang.
New Boots: Dalbello Kryption Fusion ID120, intuition wrap (not as stiff as powerwrap), punched for 6th toe 297 BSL.

These were both fit by a master bootfitter. My new boots were ridiculously tight the first few days of skiing. With super thin sock and 4 ski days they are now wearable for a ski day without frequent unbuckles.

While I'm getting used to them, I just don't seem to have the confidence I did in my old boots. On edge, turning, they feel good. When I'm skiing really fast my skis feel a bit wobbly, especially if I'm running bases flat. They also just don't feel as precise. The first thing I did was grab my insoles (blue superfeet) from my old boots to replace the ones I tried in my new boots. Better. Then I put the stiffener in the (middle position) the boot spine. Better. My next thought is to try the biggest (currently have the middle) forward lean shim and perhaps bump the spine stiffener to the highest position. Any thoughts on these adjustments?

One other issue.....With boots on, my toes touch the end. A forward lean pulls them back from the ends wonderfully with a nice lock on my heel in the pocket. As I ski, my toes seem to be moving back and forth a little too much and are bumping the front often. Not hard, but noticeable and annoying. Yes, I tend to get backseat more than I should. Is there something I can do to help keep my heel and toes pulled back? These superfeet insoles have a slippery top especially with the Snow Whisper socks I'm using. Could that be the culprit or is it the 3mm smaller shell or do I need to fine-tune my buckles?

I can and will go back to the bootfitter, but I'm hoping to try some stuff before I do. Any suggestions or tricks to try? Anyone else struggle going to a cabrio boot? Maybe it's not for me. Maybe it's in my head, but unfortunately, it's in my head. On a positive note, putting these on and taking them off is so much nicer than my old boots.

 

[Philpug]

Overlap to cabrio aside, to start off, there is a huge difference in stance. The Lange had much more forward lean in the stance than the Dalbello. I'd suggest starting by getting the stance similar to your old boot

 

[snoroqc]

I'm in the same boat. I Just retire the same banshee boot 300 bsl for a head Kore 1 boot 294. I completly lost my mark. I also ski a new Head kore 99. As Phil said, the forward lean of the Banshee is big. I also suspect the width of the Lange is <98 @25.5 (300bsl). Will try the Banshee and the Kore 1 boot tomorrow to compare with the same ski. I missed my Banshee, miss the different layers of duct tape.

 

[Tom K.]

No master boot fitter here, but it's hard to imagine a happy, long-time Banshee guy immediately becoming a happy Krypton guy.

Curious what steered you in that direction, rather than a traditional overlap construction?

 

[Idahosnow]

I'd suggest starting by getting the stance similar to your old boot

Thanks for the advice. I knew it was going to be different, but I guess I underestimated the lean difference and how that would feel on snow. Feels great walking to the lifts. I'll try the biggest shim.

I missed my Banshee, miss the different layers of duct tape.

Ha! The duct tape. I had tape across my toes to keep the cold air and water out. I also started layering it on my powerwrap under the upper to ease the shin bang I was getting from the edge of the plastic. My wife just shook her head as I kept putting tape across the toes. I don't really miss them. Taking them off was a nightmare and I actually injured my foot once doing it. I hope I can get used to the new boots.

Curious what steered you in that direction, rather than a traditional overlap construction?

I know it was a big change. The banshees were never amazing, but they were the first custom fit boot I have had and the powerwrap made them ski very well on piste. I kept them for so long because I have difficult feet and they fit so well. Also, I am cheap and was dreading going through the boot fit process again. This time around, I wanted something more playful and better off-piste. I'm making an attempt to slow down and play more when I ski. My bootfitter said they Krypton matched my foot really well and the type of skiing I was interested in. Also, I was curious about the 3 piece design. In the back of my mind, I always thought the Banshees were a mediocre boot that my bootfitter did wonders with. So, I wasn't looking for the same type of boot. Maybe I didn't give them credit?

As I said, the Kryptons are growing on me but it's not instant love. I'm going to put the biggest shim for lean in and set the stiffness to high and see if that feels better. It's nice that I can easily play with these settings. Perhaps this is a failed experiment. If so, my truly freestyling son will get a great boot for the way he skis (same size feet).

 

[Idahosnow]

I'd suggest starting by getting the stance similar to your old boot

Thanks for the advice Philpug.

Update...........With the forward lean set at max and the spine stiffener at its stiffest, I had a great day skiing. Fun day on the mountain with my family. Keeping up with my kids is a great test for equipment. Carving feels really good in these boots. Straighlining with bases flat is not as comfortable as my old boots but I think I will adjust.

When I'm skiing fast and in a good stance, my toes are perfect. When I get into the bumps and ski more upright, I'm still getting a lot of toe taps to the front of my boot. Nothing big like landing a jump backseat but it is a lot of repeated toe hits as I weight and unweight to navigate moguls. I even got air a few times today which I don't do much. Landing jumps did not smash my toes like it sometimes did in the other boots and absolutely no shin-bang which is fantastic.

I'll probably head to the bootfitter for some fine-tuning but the shims supplied with my boots actually made a significant difference in how these boots ski. I'm optimistic that they are going to work out.

 

[Delicious]

When I'm skiing really fast my skis feel a bit wobbly, especially if I'm running bases flat.

Straighlining with bases flat is not as comfortable as my old boots but I think I will adjust.

NOT a master bootfitter here, but I do have something for you to look into/try. Lateral cuff adjustment. Many Lange boot cuffs "want" to be adjusted to the outward position(knees apart), and CAN be adjusted more medially to a vertical position. I have noticed in researching the Dalbello boots that the cuffs appear to "want" to be centered (vertical), but CAN be adjusted either medially OR laterally. If I had to guess, I would expect to find that your Banshee's cuffs tip outward more than your new DB's. If you aren't already familiar with the process, do an internet search on cuff alignment. Any instructions that involve removing the liners and placing your insole directly onto the bootboard are legit.

On a personal note: I found that my misaligned cuffs were not only effecting my skiing, but actually torqueing my foot enough to prevent the feeling of even pressure across the balls of my foot. I resolved a bunch of little issues with one adjustment.

 

[Idahosnow]

Thanks for the advice. Another ski day yesterday and the boots are feeling pretty good. I'll have my bootfitter check that out when I see him for a few tweaks.

One bonus to the reduced forward lean is I seem to be able to ski more runs each day. Typically, my quads tell me when it's time to quit. The last few days of skiing, we quit because the mountain was closing.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Not a bootfitter, but I skied the Kryzmas (ladies’ version) for years. The 3 buckles make it a bit trickier to get the foot stable. I used to - push down on the plastic “tongue” and hold it there while closing the top buckle. That plastic plate is really key to holding the foot in place. Then I would flex my ankle and close the middle buckle to secure the heel back in the heel cup. Finally, I would close the toe buckle with enough pressure to hold the Forefoot in place and prevent slipping forward. I had to play A LOT with that buckle until I got the micro adjustment right.

 

[Wendy]

Not a bootfitter, but I skied the Kryzmas (ladies’ version) for years. The 3 buckles make it a bit trickier to get the foot stable. I used to - push down on the plastic “tongue” and hold it there while closing the top buckle. That plastic plate is really key to holding the foot in place. Then I would flex my ankle and close the middle buckle to secure the heel back in the heel cup. Finally, I would close the toe buckle with enough pressure to hold the Forefoot in place and prevent slipping forward. I had to play A LOT with that buckle until I got the micro adjustment right.

THIS.
Also, perhaps a custom footbed would help keep your heel in place and prevent the “toe touch” when skiing more upright. It’s possible that while good, your Superfeet insoles don’t quite match your arches.

FWIW, in the past I skied both Dabello and a Roxa cabrio boots that did not have the close fit that you’re describing you have, and I never had the toe touch you describe. I do think that can be rectified.

 

[Idahosnow]

Finally, I would close the toe buckle with enough pressure to hold the Forefoot in place and prevent slipping forward. I had to play A LOT with that buckle until I got the micro adjustment right.

Thanks for the tip. I've always set my toe buckle barely tighter than what it takes to stay buckled. I'll give your tightening sequence a go. I really appreciate the experienced advice.

Also, perhaps a custom footbed would help keep your heel in place and prevent the “toe touch” when skiing more upright. I

Yes, a custom footbed would be a good idea. The Superfeet are pretty good but I could probably use more arch support as mine is pretty high. My shell fit is pretty close so it's probably best to keep my foot as stable a possible.

 

[locknload]

THIS.
Also, perhaps a custom footbed would help keep your heel in place and prevent the “toe touch” when skiing more upright. It’s possible that while good, your Superfeet insoles don’t quite match your arches.

FWIW, in the past I skied both Dabello and a Roxa cabrio boots that did not have the close fit that you’re describing you have, and I never had the toe touch you describe. I do think that can be rectified.

The custom footbeds are critical to the fit sitting correctly in the boot and helping to prevent it from sliding around. I went from Lange's back in the day...over to the Dalbello's (Kryptons) and now back to Lange's where I belong. I got horrific shin bang from my Dalbellos partially b/c I was in a boot that was 1 size too big (pretty big fail for someone skiing as long as I have), BUT the Lange's really and truly fit my feet better. I hate getting in and out of them (I have the the XT3 in the LV version), and much preferred the ease of getting in and out of the Dalbello's BUT there is simply no comparison in the way they ski. I get ZERO shin bang in the Lange's, the energy transfer is very quick (even though I'm in their AT boot) and my foot feels cradled in there. Even sized correctly, I just never felt like you can get the appropriate wrap around the entire foot and ankle in the Kryptons. Great boot...but the precision of a Lange is legit (assuming it fits your foot).

 

[Idahosnow]

Update:

I have been messing with these boots (Dalbello Krypton) all year and what I discovered is that the buckle adjustment is way more critical than my past boots. Unfortunately, what worked one day of skiing wouldn't work the next day so I was constantly fussing with the micro adjusters. For my feet, in these boots, there seems to be a fine line between adequate foot retention and too tight that I lose circulation. One day, I think I've got them dialed. The next day, my feet go numb and frozen with the same socks and adjustments. It was an interesting experiment but I'll be back in 4 buckle boots next season. I've tried on a few boots recently and the Salamon S/Max is the current frontrunner.

 

[Andy Mink]

Update:

I have been messing with these boots (Dalbello Krypton) all year and what I discovered is that the buckle adjustment is way more critical than my past boots. Unfortunately, what worked one day of skiing wouldn't work the next day so I was constantly fussing with the micro adjusters. For my feet, in these boots, there seems to be a fine line between adequate foot retention and too tight that I lose circulation. One day, I think I've got them dialed. The next day, my feet go numb and frozen with the same socks and adjustments. It was an interesting experiment but I'll be back in 4 buckle boots next season. I've tried on a few boots recently and the Salamon S/Max is the current frontrunner.

I go through the same "what worked yesterday, not so much today" with my Raptors. Water retention, salt intake, alcohol consumption are my theories. Feet change shape day to day and during the day. My boots are comfy but some days require numerous adjustments, some as small as one twist on the micro adjustment. My take is that's why they're there!

 

[Ken_R]

Update:

I have been messing with these boots (Dalbello Krypton) all year and what I discovered is that the buckle adjustment is way more critical than my past boots. Unfortunately, what worked one day of skiing wouldn't work the next day so I was constantly fussing with the micro adjusters. For my feet, in these boots, there seems to be a fine line between adequate foot retention and too tight that I lose circulation. One day, I think I've got them dialed. The next day, my feet go numb and frozen with the same socks and adjustments. It was an interesting experiment but I'll be back in 4 buckle boots next season. I've tried on a few boots recently and the Salamon S/Max is the current frontrunner.

Yeah I was gonna say, Boots should disappear under you and you should be focused on skiing. Going back to a properly fit 4 buckle overlap boot should bring you back home again with the difference that newer boots will feel even better due to evolution in materials and design. The footbed should also be revisited and tweaked to prevent much foot movement. If you enjoy the damping and suspension of the old boots do not go with a very light boot.

As Andy Mink mentioned small tweaks in buckle settings are almost always needed every day but should not be too drastic.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

I experienced the same thing with the cabrio design. My feet lose circulation pretty easily in any boot. I think the artery in my foot is just closer to the surface than other people. The cabrio design is just too fussy for me. I prefer the 4 buckkes. I still have to micro adjust and weather plays into it the equation for me but, at least, I’m not totally OCD about it.

 

[Noodler]

I go through the same "what worked yesterday, not so much today" with my Raptors. Water retention, salt intake, alcohol consumption are my theories. Feet change shape day to day and during the day. My boots are comfy but some days require numerous adjustments, some as small as one twist on the micro adjustment. My take is that's why they're there!

ZipFit.

 

[Noodler]

Update:

I have been messing with these boots (Dalbello Krypton) all year and what I discovered is that the buckle adjustment is way more critical than my past boots. Unfortunately, what worked one day of skiing wouldn't work the next day so I was constantly fussing with the micro adjusters. For my feet, in these boots, there seems to be a fine line between adequate foot retention and too tight that I lose circulation. One day, I think I've got them dialed. The next day, my feet go numb and frozen with the same socks and adjustments. It was an interesting experiment but I'll be back in 4 buckle boots next season. I've tried on a few boots recently and the Salamon S/Max is the current frontrunner.

For over 25 years, I skied Raichle Flexons (and then Full Tilts and a couple seasons on the Krypton). I switched to a traditional 4 buckle overlap boot in 2010. My conclusion is that although it is often repeated that having the middle buckle of a cabrio design over your ankle is an advantage for heel retention, I don't believe that's actually the case. That feature of the cabrio design actually makes getting the fit and buckling in more finicky. I also believe that it's actually less comfortable to have the buckle coming across your ankle. The 4 buckle 2 piece boot with a buckle just above and below the ankle actually works much better in practice. I would never go back to a cabrio style boot as the difference in performance I'm getting from 2 piece overlap boots far exceeds anything I was ever able to get from the cabrio style (and that's even with having ZipFit liners in Krypton and Flexon shells).

 

[Idahosnow]

If you enjoy the damping and suspension of the old boots do not go with a very light boot.

Is the S/max considered a very light boot? The shop I went to had Atomic Hawks and the S/max in my size. The Salamon seemed a better fit. I'll definitely do due diligence this time around as I don't want to spend another season fiddling around. It's quite detrimental to my fun on the hill.

As stated above, micro-adjustments here and there are normal. Constantly messing with my buckles is annoying. Part of that might be that I am used to the very firm powerwrap I had in my old boots. My foot was pretty steady in that combo regardless of the buckles. There are things I like about the Krypton (nice flex, easy on/off, less forward lean, etc.) but overall, it's not for me.

I appreciate everyone's responses in this thread.

 

[Noodler]

Is the S/max considered a very light boot? The shop I went to had Atomic Hawks and the S/max in my size. The Salamon seemed a better fit. I'll definitely do due diligence this time around as I don't want to spend another season fiddling around. It's quite detrimental to my fun on the hill.

As stated above, micro-adjustments here and there are normal. Constantly messing with my buckles is annoying. Part of that might be that I am used to the very firm powerwrap I had in my old boots. My foot was pretty steady in that combo regardless of the buckles. There are things I like about the Krypton (nice flex, easy on/off, less forward lean, etc.) but overall, it's not for me.

I appreciate everyone's responses in this thread.

Why are you seeking a "very light boot"? Unless you're earning your turns (slogging uphill), the only time you might really notice the weight of a boot is on the chairlift. Light boots must have compromises on how they ski. Basically I'm advising you to not make a different mistake with the same piece of gear. If your goal is to have a better skiing experience, do not include "light weight" as something to strive for in an alpine downhill ski boot.