More research on concussions

[Tricia]

This is not specifically a helmet thread.
The published research on how helmet and concussion tests have been done is changing.
The Inside Lab is using a new machine to test the impact on the neck movement and concussions that don't necessarily happen with a blunt, direct impact.
I'm sure there have been studies about concussions from side, twisting impacts for some time but some newly published research shows a device that tests helmets and impact on a side, twisting impact.
While this is about youth football helmets, I think there is a lot of similarity on how a ski accident can be a twisting fall.
In this situation I wonder how much a helmet can do, if anything.
Today Show's Rossen - Football helmet test that has new impact

 

[Wendy]

It has been interesting for me to see the evolution in medical treatment of concussions over the years. I'm a high school teacher, and in the past few school years, I have had at least a half dozen kids each year who have suffered a concussion. And all of them required restricted academic activity......many missed a few days of school, then upon returning, were not allowed to read, write, or look at a computer screen. With those restrictions it was difficult for them to do anything in class!

I realize that Tricia's post was about helmet testing, but I'm observing that the diagnosis of concussion is a little sketchy, since there isn't always any physically observable symptoms.

The increase in diagnoses is due to the increased awareness (and perhaps paranoia)? as a result of NFL players' documented brain injuries.

With the improvement in materials science, I'm sure we will see better and better helmets as the years go by. I'm just not sure how much a helmet actually prevents concussion, since the deceleration of the brain upon impact still occurs, helmet or no helmet, and that's what can cause a concussion.

 

[Yo Momma]

Listened to an hour long interview w/ neuropathologist and forensic pathologist Dr. Bennet Omalu who essentially discovered and publicized CTE (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy) (Will Smith movie.... I forget the name of it) Fantastic interview. He challenged our thought processes and what we consider "Norms" in our society. He said that based on the clinical research, it would be much safer to give your child packs of cigarettes, than to let them play contact football w/ gear. He said from a physicians perspective, no question about which was safer........... Think about that............ that's a DEEP statement. He said no Football helmet currently on the market can prevent this and while this can happen in other sports, Football consistently causes CTE. The cumulative micro-traumas from hits, is the prevalent causative factor. Among player's wives.......... "NFL" stands for Not For Long.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Until my son concussed himself skateboarding, I had no idea how long lasting (i.e.: permanent) some of the effects of one concussion can be. He has lost much of both his senses of smell and taste and it's not going to improve. I realize that he's alive and still a thinking, fully functioning human being, and I am grateful for that. He is only 20 and will forever lose the pleasure of eating great food or of those wonderful memories triggered by aroma. On the bright side, he can't smell bad stuff! As an example, whisky tastes sweet to him, like a desert. My thought is that football presents a unique problem of being hit over and over again. If one concussion can cause permanent damage, then I think repeated concussions are serious stuff. Bob and I didn't start wearing helmets skiing until after my son was concussed. We put on lids because he had to wear a helmut from then on to mitigate any chances of further concussions. I guess I didn't really understand how serious a concussion really was until then.

Since football is not going away, I think anything that can be done to mitigate damage is worthwhile experimentation.

 

[Dave Marshak]

Football will go away when middle class parents keep their kids out. Black players will act out their anger over breaking their brains for wealthy white owners. It will go away the way boxing did, and just as fast.

dm

 

[LKLA]

Football will go away when middle class parents keep their kids out. Black players will act out their anger over breaking their brains for wealthy white owners. It will go away the way boxing did, and just as fast.

dm

I doubt that will happen.

Boxing was indeed more popular in the past than it is today but I am not sure it was ever as popular as football. And, the reason why it is not as popular today is largely because an even more "deadly" version has taken over for the last decade - ultimate fighting!

Boxing leaves little room for change. If you can not punch your opponent in the face/head, then you basically take away 50% (if not more) of the sport. Having said, that I can see boxing incorporating some of the rules and equipment that are currently part of amateur/Olympic boxing.

As for the football, equipment will improve and some of the rules will change. Player awareness and behavior will change as well. All those things together will make a difference in player safety. Seems like all/most of those things are already taking place.

 

[Dave Marshak]

I doubt that will happen.

Boxing was indeed more popular in the past than it is today but I am not sure it was ever as popular as football. And, the reason why it is not as popular today is largely because an even more "deadly" version has taken over for the last decade - ultimate fighting!

As for the football, equipment will improve and some of the rules will change. Player awareness and behavior will change as well. All those things together will make a difference in player safety. Seems like all/most of those things are already taking place.

Boxing has been in decline since the 50s, when it was on TV every week. The decline accelerated with the obvious deterioration of Mohammed Ali. MMA had nothing to do with it. MMA is probably safer than boxing because the fighters don't wear gloves, which are more weapons than protection, but the fact that MMA gets as much attention on cable TV proves that educated people aren't much interested n fighting anymore.

Better football equipment will only lead to harder hits and more injury. Taking away the equipment and making rule changes makes it safer and makes it play like rugby, but do you really want to watch that? Add some racially based blasphemy in the church of flag worship, and it's on its way out.

dm

 

[LKLA]

Boxing has been in decline since the 50s, when it was on TV every week. The decline accelerated with the obvious deterioration of Mohammed Ali. MMA had nothing to do with it. MMA is probably safer than boxing because the fighters don't wear gloves, which are more weapons than protection, but the fact that MMA gets as much attention on cable TV proves that educated people aren't much interested n fighting anymore.

Better football equipment will only lead to harder hits and more injury. Taking away the equipment and making rule changes makes it safer and makes it play like rugby, but do you really want to watch that? Add some racially based blasphemy in the church of flag worship, and it's on its way out.

dm

As I said in my prior post, boxing has been declining in popularity for decades and over the last decade much of the audience that left boxing has been "picked-up" by MMA.

As for safety, they are both dangerous sports, to say the least. While one might think that boxing is more dangerous because the fighter gets back up after being KOd, there are studies, including by the American Journal of Sports Medicine, that indicate that about one-third of professional mixed martial arts matches end in knockout or technical knockout, resulting in a higher incidence of brain trauma than boxing or other martial arts.

Better football equipment will not lead to more injuries if it is accompanied by a change in the rules and a change in how coaches, players...see the sport and its impact on their health/safety. That is why I said in my prior post that in order to minimize head injuries - which is what we are discussing here - that football needs to adopt change across a combination of all those things, not just one.

I think football has ample room for incorporating added safety. After all, the most popular sports in the world all seem to be adopting changes to address safety concerns of one type or another - basketball, soccer, cricket, tennis, F1 racing, ice hockey, golf...

As for the rest of your post,...

 

[Yo Momma]

The problem is that the NFL as an organization, despite the serious undeniable clinical evidence as a result of intense clinical and forensic study linking specifically Football en masse to CTE, has been slow to implement change and refuses to have a true conversation about accepting their role in propagating CTE. Accepting that role could potentially jeopardize profit. FIFA-Mafia move over in comes the NFL............and I've been a fan for life and feel guilty as hell about it............ especially when speaking to ex-players and finding out what it's really like in the gridiron.

 

[scott43]

I think there is a little wilful ignorance on the part of some players and people. Or maybe wishful thinking. There's no doubt football is bad for you..in many ways including your brain. I find it hard to believe that players didn't know this. And I'm not sure that the evidence is quite finished yet for CTE. Not saying I'm an expert..but some work still needs to be done I think.

Having said that, I think a lot of parents are becoming more aware of the long-term implications of head injuries because it's in the media finally and the behaviour in contact games will change. I've been saying for a while that hockey will become non-contact. Arguably the sport would survive, as in Europe. I'm not sure the NFL could survive that change.

 

[PTskier]

I'm sure there have been studies about concussions from side, twisting impacts

We have Mips for this. (These twisting injuries aren't called concussions, I think.)
http://mipsprotection.com/mips-faq/#faq/what-is-mips
http://mipsprotection.com/helmets/

D3O shock absorbing polymers are very interesting (a version is the damping material in the highly regarded Renoun skis), and may provide superior concussion protection. The Scott Symbol 2 Plus D helmet (catchy title) combines D3O and Mips technologies. A mere $220.
https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/product/scott-symbol-2-plus-d-helmet?article=2545865599008

 

[scott43]

Article by Ken Dryden, grew up just down the road from me here..

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/ken-dryden-head-injury-essay/article36585129/

 

[graham418]

Article by Ken Dryden, grew up just down the road from me here..

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/ken-dryden-head-injury-essay/article36585129/

I was just about to post that. Here is an excerpt from his book Game Change

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/ken-dryden-game-change-book-excerpts/article36585093/

 

[Wendy]

Until my son concussed himself skateboarding, I had no idea how long lasting (i.e.: permanent) some of the effects of one concussion can be. He has lost much of both his senses of smell and taste and it's not going to improve. I realize that he's alive and still a thinking, fully functioning human being, and I am grateful for that. He is only 20 and will forever lose the pleasure of eating great food or of those wonderful memories triggered by aroma. On the bright side, he can't smell bad stuff! As an example, whisky tastes sweet to him, like a desert. My thought is that football presents a unique problem of being hit over and over again. If one concussion can cause permanent damage, then I think repeated concussions are serious stuff. Bob and I didn't start wearing helmets skiing until after my son was concussed. We put on lids because he had to wear a helmut from then on to mitigate any chances of further concussions. I guess I didn't really understand how serious a concussion really was until then.

Since football is not going away, I think anything that can be done to mitigate damage is worthwhile experimentation.

I'm sorry to hear about your son's injury. Concussions are serious injuries. In my first post, i may have come across as insensitive to those with concussion injuries...not so. A former student of mine, who went on to play Division 1 football, committed suicide in his dorm room....most likely the result of CTE. I've had 2 concussions.

My frustration with this issue is that there seems to be an over diagnosis in concussions for casual athletes.....if someone hits their head, it's automatically ruled a possible concussion and severe restrictions are put in place. (Weirdly, all of the concussion diagnoses I've seen are with students who are not athletes...no football players, no soccer players). However, where the change in attitude is really needed - in the NFL, for example, or among rabid parents who sign their 5-year-olds up for peewee football to supposedly place them on the path to becoming an NFL player.....changes aren't occurring.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Wendy, not sure about other sports but as a ski race coach, I have well defined and pretty strict guidelines I have to follow if an athlete has a suspected concussion. Yes, to some extent you are still dependent on the athlete telling you how they feel but any doubt at all and I have to pull them off the hill

In far west we have also done a lot of work around (actually driven by one of our masters racers) this doing scans and testing to try to develop better data around the issue

 

[SBrown]

I'm sorry to hear about your son's injury. Concussions are serious injuries. In my first post, i may have come across as insensitive to those with concussion injuries...not so. A former student of mine, who went on to play Division 1 football, committed suicide in his dorm room....most likely the result of CTE. I've had 2 concussions.

My frustration with this issue is that there seems to be an over diagnosis in concussions for casual athletes.....if someone hits their head, it's automatically ruled a possible concussion and severe restrictions are put in place. (Weirdly, all of the concussion diagnoses I've seen are with students who are not athletes...no football players, no soccer players). However, where the change in attitude is really needed - in the NFL, for example, or among rabid parents who sign their 5-year-olds up for peewee football to supposedly place them on the path to becoming an NFL player.....changes aren't occurring.

Do your athletes go through baseline testing?

 

[James]

Years ago the majority smoked at work, on planes, in restaurants, bars, cars, hospitals. Then the surgeon general report linking smoking to cancer. It took 30-40 years for all that to change. Nfl players are pretty abused. Nearly half go broke within 2-3 yrs leaving. Compared to baseball their contracts are a joke.

 

[Wendy]

Do your athletes go through baseline testing?

Yes, they do.

 

[cantunamunch]

My frustration with this issue is that there seems to be an over diagnosis in concussions for casual athletes.....if someone hits their head, it's automatically ruled a possible concussion and severe restrictions are put in place. (Weirdly, all of the concussion diagnoses I've seen are with students who are not athletes...no football players, no soccer players). However, where the change in attitude is really needed - in the NFL, for example, or among rabid parents who sign their 5-year-olds up for peewee football to supposedly place them on the path to becoming an NFL player.....changes aren't occurring.

Oh how we wish that had been the case at the admitting hospital in herself's case. Imagine being passed over twice... then finding definite proof of the damage on an MRI 3 years after.

 

[TheArchitect]

I have two sons and both have had issues with concussions. My eldest had to give up skiing because every time he'd hit a rough snow or moguls his head would hurt. He also can't open his eyes comfortably in bright sunshine. My youngest isn't as bad and thankfully still can ski with me. He still can be uncomfortable in bright sun, though. I have him in a POC MIPS helmet figuring every little bit helps.

Anyway, my eldest is about to turn 18 and has been told that one more moderate concussion and he'll likely have more significant and permanent damage. Besides above he has minor memory issues. He's also been told that if it happens again he will not be able to participate in any sports that could result in bumping his head.