More progress 1918 to 1970? Or 1970 to today?

[chilehed]

The computers are the single most overrated educational tool in history. Information overload is not a replacement for critical thinking skills.

 

[scott43]

The computers are the single most overrated educational tool in history. Information overload is not a replacement for critical thinking skills.

100%.

 

[Tony S]

• 1918: Commercial air travel in an open-air biplane had existed for only a few years, and was not really practical compared to train travel.
• 1970: Easy to travel by jet on a Boeing 737
• 2022: Pain-in-the-keister to travel by jet on a Boeing 737

Funny! Didn't realize the 737 was that old.

What was the relative economic accessibility of air travel for the average person then? I know I can count on two or three fingers the number of times I was on a plane as a kid / teen. (Then again we didn't go to restaurants either.)

 

[Shawn]

What was the relative economic accessibility of air travel for the average person then?

People complain about being nickel-and-dimed by airlines today. And I can see their point: it's genuinely at least a little annoying. But, it belies the fact that airfare today is a lot cheaper than it used to be.

This fact stuck out:

In 1974, it was illegal for an airline to charge less than $1,442 in inflation-adjusted dollars for a flight between New York City and Los Angeles. On Kayak, just now, I found one for $278.

 

[cantunamunch]

What was the relative economic accessibility of air travel for the average person then? I know I can count on two or three fingers the number of times I was on a plane as a kid / teen. (Then again we didn't go to restaurants either.)

It wasn't meant for average-person leisure travel then. It was meant for business travel.

I've got maybe a few more flights than you - and one liner crossing.

 

[fatbob]

The Star Trek game we played on the computer was done through a dot matrix printer and imagination. Lots and lots of imagination.

Hey I remember the excitement sometime around 2000 when handheld computers/ organisers from Psion and Handspring were all the rage and you could play drug wars in black and white, text and number based.

And you tell that to kids today and they won't believe you [/4yorkshiremen]

 

[crgildart]

When my children were barely toddlers they thought the WHOLE world was black and white before 1950 because that's what all the old photos and movies showed.

 

[Tony S]

People complain about being nickel-and-dimed by airlines today. And I can see their point: it's genuinely at least a little annoying. But, it belies the fact that airfare today is a lot cheaper than it used to be.

This fact stuck out:

It wasn't meant for average-person leisure travel then. It was meant for business travel.

What I suspected.

 

[silverback]

 

[Tony S]

View attachment 174911

My dad had several incarnations / variations of this model over the years. They were all fixer uppers. They were beautiful and neighbors marveled at them, partly because imported cars were still relative rarities. However, they were, to put it mildly, not particularly reliable. Eventually he seemed to decide that the hours of swearing as he lay under the cars on his back on the gravel in our cold, wet carport were not worth the upside.

 

[cantunamunch]

My dad had several incarnations / variations of this model over the years. They were all fixer uppers. They were beautiful and neighbors marveled at them, partly because imported cars were still relative rarities. However, they were, to put it mildly, not particularly reliable. Eventually he seemed to decide that the hours of swearing as he lay under the cars on his back on the gravel in our cold, wet carport were not worth the upside.

This is why my cousins had a stand-up trench in the barn.

 

[Seldomski]

Depends on what you mean by "progress." Definitely bigger jump in per capita consumption of energy from 1918 to 1970 vs 1970 to 2022.

https://histecon.fas.harvard.edu/energyhistory/DATABASE%20World%20Energy%20Consumption.pdf

About even increases when it comes to food consumed...

 

[scott43]

This is why my cousins had a stand-up trench in the barn.

Pit. Some folks build those.. cheaper than a lift..

 

[Scruffy]

In 1970, I suspect most people had never heard of a computer, let alone seen one.

Not to pile on, but also the space program was very much in everyone's living room on TV in the 60's, also in all the newspapers. Esp. the Apollo missions and there were endless reports of not only the onboard guidance computers, but also the mission control mainframes. So at least in the "developed world" with access to news, people heard of computers.

 

[tromano]

Not to pile on, but also the space program was very much in everyone's living room on TV in the 60's, also in all the newspapers. Esp. the Apollo missions and there were endless reports of not only the onboard guidance computers, but also the mission control mainframes. So at least in the "developed world" with access to news, people heard of computers.

You can be wrong and also be right.

I think the point still stands, that computers were things that maybe a university engineering school or department had a few of them and they may have been in pop culture in 1970. But certainly not something that most people had even seen for themselves. And these days every car, appliance, phone, etc... Has a computer built in.

 

[GB_Ski]

It seems like everyone is comparing arguable the best decade (1960-1970, but not the roaring 20s since none of us were there) against everything after. You forget that before then, the world was literally in the dark ages in terms of technology and human rights.

Put it this way, if you drop some members on this board back to 1918, they wouldn't be able to vote, go to school, own properties, get proper employment, marry someone they love, and face daily discrimination if not down right violence for a few decades.

So yea, I'll take the 1970 onward.

 

[Tony S]

It seems like everyone is comparing arguable the best decade (1960-1970, but not the roaring 20s since none of us were there) against everything after. You forget that before then, the world was literally in the dark ages in terms of technology and human rights.

Put it this way, if you drop some members on this board back to 1918, they wouldn't be able to vote, go to school, own properties, get proper employment, marry someone they love, and face daily discrimination if not down right violence for a few decades.

So yea, I'll take the 1970 onward.

I'll take 1970 onward too, but I think the question was, during which period was more progress been made, not "what were things like at the beginning of each period?" Nor was the question, "which period ended with a cumulative total of more progress from all preceding periods?" because of course each one builds on the previous one, as has been discussed.

PS: many of those social inequities that you list were still effectively true in 1970. Hell, there are STILL issues with them.

 

[Bill Miles]

You can be wrong and also be right.

I think the point still stands, that computers were things that maybe a university engineering school or department had a few of them and they may have been in pop culture in 1970. But certainly not something that most people had even seen for themselves. And these days every car, appliance, phone, etc... Has a computer built in.

When I took my required Computer Science programming course for M.E. in the mid/late 60's, the mainframe was down being replaced, so we just printed out our punchcard programs and turned them in. No such thing as a PC or workstation. Never used computers at work, except for CAD, until we got PC's because the procedures for using the mainframe were so nebulous and undocumented.

 

[Scruffy]

You can be wrong and also be right.

I think the point still stands, that computers were things that maybe a university engineering school or department had a few of them and they may have been in pop culture in 1970. But certainly not something that most people had even seen for themselves. And these days every car, appliance, phone, etc... Has a computer built in.

Nobody wrong, just sharing thoughts and ideas

Absolutely, the only entities prior to 1970 having meaningful computers were Gov/military, some big business, and universities. Not many people had 4 million to drop on a S/360, for example.

My point was: the space race, Esp the Apollo missions, did more than an other single event of that era to inform the public what computers were, and that a computer could do more that tabulate payrolls, and that we had entered a new era of technological achievement, and the future would never be the same again. At least here in the good'ol USA, although I know UK TV also carried coverage, most likely Europe too.

The USA networks broadcast the entire mission to the nation, and people watched. There was a lot of time between talking about the trajectory of the rocket and capsules, and whether the astronauts were sleeping now, or the temp outside the capsules. They had to fill it somehow, so they often waxed on about the computers in use for the mission, and they showed them on TV, and interviewed the tech staff. This was the first time many of the public who had never had access or education of computers got a glimpse of them in action, and what was to come.

 

[crgildart]

Pre 1970 those mainframes taking up buildings and taking us to the moon had what... 256 megs of memory???