In-depth series on skier deaths in Colorado

[jmeb]

Do these numbers include/exclude from avalanches?

Going to guess they exclude both based on the fatality numbers and the fact we don't have reliable estimates to the number of skier days for backcountry users.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Steep runs can be just as bad - I caught an edge going down a steep bump run Pali Face at A Basin. I tumbled about 4 bumps before I stopped. To be honest. I was scared shitless that I was going to tomahawk all the way down and in to the woods and die. I got too cocky and was going too fast and when I tried to stop, my skis hit my son's skis then caught an edge trying to recover and down I went. Taught me a huge lesson.

Steeps certainly are dangerous. The thing about groomers with trees and other obstacles (lift towers, rocks, groomers) nearby is that EVERY level of skier is represented there and they are generally far more crowded so the likelihood of losing control is pretty high compared to steeper pitches which are less heavily traveled as ability reduces volume to a large degree.

Interestingly, hitting a tree on a steep pitch would be less likely as the force of gravity during a fall would be more inclined to take you down the hill than across towards trees or rocks. Unless you're skiing a chute with a dogleg in it. :-|

 

[pais alto]

Yes, I think it's skiing into trees most of the time, not skiing trees. I started a thread last year about managing risk in skiing.

To me, one of the big take aways is trying to ski far away from objects that will kill you if something goes slightly wrong. A caught edge can mean a pulled muscle in the middle of a run, and instant death if it pulls you into a tree at 40+ mph. Lift poles are another example. I worry when I see people going real fast real close.

IME. skiing deaths involving trees have been people skiing off of groomed runs into trees. And the majority of fractured femurs as well. Word to the wise.

 

[François Pugh]

Except for some crazy stuff I did back when I was young and reckless, the most dangerous situation for me is skiing an ordinary black (now a day's sometimes called double or triple black) groomed run at high speed; I tend to turn back and forth, experiencing high speed high g-force, so that at points between turns, I'm pointing straight at the trees on the side of the run. A chute with a single dog-leg or obstacle to avoid in the middle may be dangerous, but you're pretty much focused on making that turn, unlike a longer run where your concentration might lapse, and you may be tempted to turn more and more as the run goes on.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I think that is a fair assessment, @pais alto .

Many people try to hold on too long when a fall is imminent. If you catch and edge and see yourself going towards the trees your instinct (until learned otherwise) is to try to recover and avoid the impact. It is the time trying to recover that doesn't permit you to slow down that is the problem.

Falling or losing control safely is an acquired skill. I've watch DH racers try and try and try to recover then go full speed into b-net when if they'd just given into the realization that they were going to wreck and tipped over, they'd have impacted with less force. It isn't natural to lay down when faced with the often remote chance you might recover and avoid wrecking altogether.

Knowing when and as importantly how to fall are important skills that can save you. I am pretty sure that when I wrecked on my bike last month I tucked in an effort to roll as my injuries were to my torso not to outstretched extremities. I don't know exactly what I did since my memory is blank from just before the beginning of the fall to waking up with a WFR and EMTs around me.

 

[pais alto]

I think that is a fair assessment, @pais alto .

Many people try to hold on too long when a fall is imminent. If you catch and edge and see yourself going towards the trees your instinct (until learned otherwise) is to try to recover and avoid the impact. It is the time trying to recover that doesn't permit you to slow down that is the problem.

Falling or losing control safely is an acquired skill. I've watch DH racers try and try and try to recover then go full speed into b-net when if they'd just given into the realization that they were going to wreck and tipped over, they'd have impacted with less force. It isn't natural to lay down when faced with the often remote chance you might recover and avoid wrecking altogether.

Knowing when and as importantly how to fall are important skills that can save you. I am pretty sure that when I wrecked on my bike last month I tucked in an effort to roll as my injuries were to my torso not to outstretched extremities. I don't know exactly what I did since my memory is blank from just before the beginning of the fall to waking up with a WFR and EMTs around me.

Holding on too long trying not to fall is also a major cause of blown ACLs, especially falling backwards. If your hips get below and behind your knees, just give up and go down. There's probably an online video on this somewhere. The patrol I work on has to watch one every year about how falling back blows ACLs.

Yeah, google: skiing falls acl video

 

[dlague]

Holding on too long trying not to fall is also a major cause of blown ACLs, especially falling backwards. If your hips get below and behind your knees, just give up and go down. There's probably an online video on this somewhere. The patrol I work on has to watch one every year about how falling back blows ACLs.

Yeah, google: skiing falls acl video

Yup exactly how I blew my ACL!

 

[François Pugh]

Holding on too long trying not to fall is also a major cause of blown ACLs, especially falling backwards. If your hips get below and behind your knees, just give up and go down. There's probably an online video on this somewhere. The patrol I work on has to watch one every year about how falling back blows ACLs.

Yeah, google: skiing falls acl video

Like Kenny Rogers said, "You gotta know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold'em." Hanging on to direct yourself away from a deadly impact is good. Hanging on just to avoid an embarrassing fall with nothing in the spill zone...not so much.

 

[Monique]

Yeah, I find it hard to believe that many threatening injuries come from steep, tight tree skiing. Very few people have the ability or balls to ski fast in that scenario. You do build up subjectively high speeds in a single turn, but objectively, it can't be fast compared to zooming down a wide open blue. You could impale yourself on a pointy tree branch, but that's just awful luck. You could hit your head just wrong.

And then there's the attention factor. Heck, I was just talking to someone yesterday who biffed hard mountain biking on a "nothing" section of the trail. When you're skiing a steep chute or trees, you're on high alert. On a wide open groomer, it's super easy to just zone out. Then add the mix of skills and abilities Doug mentioned ... yikes.

I spent a lot of last season working specifically on getting my body downhill of my skis. That's probably not the best way to describe it, but anyway, I've come to the conclusion that being able to get out over your skis (or below them, depending on what exactly you're doing) is a major factor in safety. Proper technique means you're not letting your skis squirt out from under you. It feels more aggressive, but gives you more control. I'm not going to claim that good technique would prevent all injuries and fatalities, but I bet it wouldn't hurt.

I was talking to someone the other day who says he skis almost everything on the mountain, but he's never taken a lesson. He asked me what I thought instructors would say about that. "Trouble waiting to happen," I responded. Not that taking lessons means you're going to be able to ski perfectly.