Do new race skis need to be prepped opinions U14 level

[beantownace]

Hello all,

Looking for some opinions on this. My daughter skis with Fischer race skis GS and SL is going to be a U14. Fischer skis I thought were pretty good shape out of the factory with a 3 degree side bevel and 0.5 base bevel. Is a USSA tune really necessary for new skis off the jump if starting to train on them? In her past levels I never did this so maybe its a U14 more serious game but looking for what people have found with this that have been in the game a while. Just curious if this is a ski shop selling push when buying skis or really good to do and can give some advantage where I know they will flatten grind the base etc.

Thanks all always appreciate the awesome community on here and opinions as I navigate through the years.

 

[Tony S]

Hello all,

Looking for some opinions on this. My daughter skis with Fischer race skis GS and SL is going to be a U14. Fischer skis I thought were pretty good shape out of the factory with a 3 degree side bevel and 0.5 base bevel. Is a USSA tune really necessary for new skis off the jump if starting to train on them? In her past levels I never did this so maybe its a U14 more serious game but looking for what people have found with this that have been in the game a while. Just curious if this is a ski shop selling push when buying skis or really good to do and can give some advantage where I know they will flatten grind the base etc.

Thanks all always appreciate the awesome community on here and opinions as I navigate through the years.

New skis always need a few wax cycles. That's a given. You want to get the base off to a healthy start, so to speak. Are you already doing your own waxing?

The correct but potentially infuriating answer about the bases and edges is that they only need a tune if they need a tune.

What they absolutely need is an inspection from a tuner you trust to be A) highly competent and B) honest. Easier sought than found. Once the inspection is done you'll know whether they need a grind / edge tune out of the box.

A few ski parents develop the skills to do the evaluation themselves. But that is a project and a process that probably won't help you in this moment.

Similarly, many athletes can ski on a pair of skis to see how the tune feels, but as a U14 your daughter is likely not to have the requisite experience and level of objectivity to do that.

So we're back to finding a good tuning shop.

Fortunately Fischer is probably as likely to come with a good tune as any, so odds are in your favor there.

 

[Snuckerpooks]

Factory states a 3° side bevel and a 0.5° base bevel, but how do you really know? These are devices that can measure it but without it, it's hard to tell by the naked eye. Off the top of my head but I want to say that on Blister, a HEAD rep was talking about tuning and just said that even though many companies claim X tune on a ski, it's not always going to come out that way due to deviations between each ski so the best thing to do is get a baseline grind or tune done.

Just take it for a first season stone-grind at a place you regularly go so that the tune feels the same. Once you get the skis back with the desired angles, take the time and put some love into the bases.

 

[KingGrump]

Out of the wrapper, You can eye ball the structure for uniformity. You can also tell whether the base is flat with a true bar and a light. If the base is not flat, get a base grind. That's the easy part.

Beyond that it's going to take some skill, knowledge and some simple tools.
To check the base bevel and side edge angles, you will need a base bevel guide, side edge angle guide and a very fine diamond stone (600 grit or finer).

Ink the edges with a marker. You can do the entire edge or an inch or so of ink every 6" or so. Go over the edge with the diamond stone and the guide - VERY LIGHTLY. You should be able to tell if the condition of the edge bevels by the ink removal patterns. The results from this simple test should guide you on your next course of action.

 

[Tony S]

Out of the wrapper, You can eye ball the structure for uniformity. You can also tell whether the base is flat with a true bar and a light. If the base is not flat, get a base grind. That's the easy part.

Beyond that it's going to take some skill, knowledge and some simple tools.
To check the base bevel and side edge angles, you will need a base bevel guide, side edge angle guide and a very fine diamond stone (600 grit or finer).

Ink the edges with a marker. You can do the entire edge or an inch or so of ink every 6" or so. Go over the edge with the diamond stone and the guide - VERY LIGHTLY. You should be able to tell if the condition of the edge bevels by the ink removal patterns. The results from this simple test should guide you on your next course of action.

What KG says here is correct. However I think it's good to acknowledge that KG has a lifetime of professional expertise in using hand tools and evaluating things by eye. Things that seem obvious and trivially easy to him may be not at all straightforward to Joe off the street. A statement like "You can also tell whether the base is flat with a true bar and a light" has the potential to spark a dozen questions and a dozen errors from someone who hasn't seen that done, let alone practiced it.

 

[Lifer]

0.5 base bevel?

Check in with her coach what bevels they are suggesting for her group's skill and ability.

In many youth racing circles, a 0.5 base is considered very aggressive, particularly for Jr GS Skis. YMMV.

 

[trailtrimmer]

0.5 base bevel?

Check in with her coach what bevels they are suggesting for her group's skill and ability.

In many youth racing circles, a 0.5 base is considered very aggressive, particularly for Jr GS Skis. YMMV.

I was thinking the same thing. I don't like .5 for anything but steep courses, I want the skis to get up on edge a little more before the tips start engaging. I'd think that for a U14, a .75 or 1 would be more fitting.

And unless they bases can be verified with a true bar, I just assume that all out of the wrapper skis are not flat.

 

[Philpug]

Out of the box, Fischer has some of the better base structures and bevels but they still should be checked.

 

[Alexzn]

Depends on the U14 kid. Some benefit from a well tuned ski, some not so much .

On one hand, think about it this way: you are already spending way more on skiing than the cost of the tune, so its one less variable to worry about. On the other hand, If you do not do your own waxing and edge maintenance, don't spend the money, it won't make a difference after a few training days if the tune is not maintained.

 

[Brian Finch]

Just having a discussion along these lines w/ some academy tuning gurus. Word is that the bases on many skis are lesser than in years past, so they are trying to not grind out of the wrapper - if it comes acceptable from the factory.

As others note, ski should be waxed & I'd say also shaped some.

0.5 on the base is really aggressive, especially in GS. Many FIS kids run a 0.7 for GS. YMMV

 

[nnowak]

Hello all,

Looking for some opinions on this. My daughter skis with Fischer race skis GS and SL is going to be a U14. Fischer skis I thought were pretty good shape out of the factory with a 3 degree side bevel and 0.5 base bevel. Is a USSA tune really necessary for new skis off the jump if starting to train on them? In her past levels I never did this so maybe its a U14 more serious game but looking for what people have found with this that have been in the game a while. Just curious if this is a ski shop selling push when buying skis or really good to do and can give some advantage where I know they will flatten grind the base etc.

Thanks all always appreciate the awesome community on here and opinions as I navigate through the years.

First off, 0.5/3.0 is perfect for SL, but a bit aggressive for GS. Something like 1.0/2.0 or 1.0/3.0 would be better for U14 GS, depending on conditions and preference. Fortunately, it is very easy to go from 0.5/3.0 to 1.0/2.0 using hand guides. Going the other direction is when you would need a grind

As for needing a grind on new skis, from my recent experience, higher level junior and FIS level skis tend to come from the factory with good tunes and nice flat bases. Assuming the bases are flat, the main reason to grind a new ski would be to change the structure. In general, I try to avoid stone grinding unless absolutely necessary. More than once, I have had skis ground by the supposed experts in the region, and the skis came back in worse shape.

Trust but verify. That goes for both the manufacturer and the local shop.

 

[Alexzn]

I struggle to see the virtue of a 0.5 base bevel on a U14 kids race ski. Here the Squaw/Palisades coaches recommended 3/1 or even 2/1 on a junior race ski. I remember hearing that one season Northstar coaches told parents to go for 0.5 and all ski shops thought that it was a terrible idea. You have to be REALLY advanced to handle a 0.5 base bevel on a U14 level, and those kids typically already know what they like.

 

[wolcoma]

My suggestion is to take the skis out of the wrapper, tune the side edges first but don't grind. Then wax them a bunch. I always start with something like Swix base prep then gradually go from a softer wax to a colder wax. Then have the kids ski on them. It depends on the brand, but I have found out of the box they say .50 bevel which is aggressive but you really need to ski on them first to determine if the skis are too grabby or not. Again I live in the East and we often have hard snow, especially early season, so maybe out west you need more bevel. The problem is every time you grind you're removing base material and race skis only have so many grinds in them. Same with base bevels, if you take too much edge off to bevel the skis more, you're using up edge.

I think one of the biggest problems across all levels of skiing is most junior racers free ski on their slalom skis and only train on their GS skis. However with less side cut, I believe it's imperative kids spend a ton of time free skiing on their GS skis whether they are 23, 27, or 30 meter (FIS) level race skis. If you watch Mikaela free skiing on her GS skis, she turns those FIS skis like she's riding a pair of fat boards in her home town of Vail.

 

[Atomicman]

I struggle to see the virtue of a 0.5 base bevel on a U14 kids race ski. Here the Squaw/Palisades coaches recommended 3/1 or even 2/1 on a junior race ski. I remember hearing that one season Northstar coaches told parents to go for 0.5 and all ski shops thought that it was a terrible idea. You have to be REALLY advanced to handle a 0.5 base bevel on a U14 level, and those kids typically already know what they like.

Come on Alexzn, you know you always quote base bevel 1st!

1/3 , 1/2 . Have her ski on them 1st. If she is comfortable and likes the way they ski....case closed! If not she should be able to tell you what she doesn't like and.......I don't agree with her not knowing if her ski are F'ed up! You can also probably tell by watching her ski. The one thing I would do for sure is make sure there is no hanging burr. I have had new skis that were tuned fine except for a hanging burr was present and that can make anyone's ski day miserable! 1/3 is fine, My boys raced on a 3 degree way back to Mighty Mites!

 

[nnowak]

I struggle to see the virtue of a 0.5 base bevel on a U14 kids race ski. Here the Squaw/Palisades coaches recommended 3/1 or even 2/1 on a junior race ski. I remember hearing that one season Northstar coaches told parents to go for 0.5 and all ski shops thought that it was a terrible idea. You have to be REALLY advanced to handle a 0.5 base bevel on a U14 level, and those kids typically already know what they like.

Bevels are somewhat dependent on location and snow conditions. We are in the Midwest with man-made ice, and my daughter had a 0.5/3.0 bevel on her SL skis back when she was a U10.

 

[Atomicman]

Bevels are somewhat dependent on location and snow conditions. We are in the Midwest with man-made ice, and my daughter had a 0.5/3.0 bevel on her SL skis back when she was a U10.

Kinda unusual, If you have too little base bevel on manmade snow its a recipe for very demanding (read really miserable) skiing. Are you sure they were .5. Manmade snow is so unforgiving.

 

[nnowak]

Are you sure they were .5.

Positive.

Manmade snow is so unforgiving.

Unforgiving of insufficient edge hold.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I have 0.5/4 on my GS and SL and love it. Just be forewarned on the GS ski your ski will punish you (physically) for errors in input and reward you greatly with edge hold and responsiveness when skied correctly.

Learn to adapt to this will make her a better skier, unfortunately, there will be a painful learning curve involved as most lessons will occur during relaxed skiing and she get sloppy. Been there done that, well worth it.

 

[François Pugh]

I love 0.5 base bevel. What @KingGrump said about the marker and a base guide is also very true. The only thing I might add is just check the sharpness. Are you in danger of cutting yourself? Could you shave with that edge? Sharpness matters.
Also worth noting is where is the best place to put your effort for improvement? Maybe spending an exrta hour on tuning to perfection is not the best place to put your effort, and the more you sharpen, the less time will go by before your edges are gone.

 

[Atomicman]

Positive.

Unforgiving of insufficient edge hold.

No...... grabby. Not enough forgiveness when the ski engages. I find .5 makes not a bit of difference in regard to edge hold. Base bevel determines how quickly the edge engages, side edge angle is all about edge hold!