New England Cannon Mt. Tram comes in over budget.

[Black Dog]

Looks like the buget was 18 million, came in at 29 million.
Only 1 bidder, Poma.
Odd that Dopplemayr did not bid on it.

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[scott43]

Having recently done some multi million dollar procurements, depending on how the RFP was written, maybe they didn't like what they saw. Or didn't have capacity.

 

[SKI-3PO]

That's kinda...not close.

 

[Black Dog]

I would be courious what Big Sky just paid for their new Tram.
Look like they are using the origial superstructures at Cannon vs all new for Big Sky.

 

[scott43]

I should say I'm not great at procurements but I have learned through the process that it can go wrong if you're not very good at it. Ambiguity and being unrealistic can kill it.

 

[Johnny V.]

It's my brother in law's home mountain and he live in Bethlehem about 15 min. away. I'll have to ask him about it.

 

[Black Dog]

https://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=1060

More to the story.

 

[SKI-3PO]

That makes more sense.

 

[Itinerant skier]

Maybe go back to the refurb option?

 

[dbostedo]

Maybe go back to the refurb option?

That price was a sort-of refurb option. Or at least not a full new tram. Per the article:

"Leitner Poma's $29 million bid was $11 million more than the state appropriation of $18 million. The project reportedly would have replaced controls, cabins, and line equipment, retaining existing terminals, towers, and other equipment."

So the $29M was with what sounds to me like some decent reuse of things. Though I don't know if a real refurb could reuse a lot more.

 

[dbostedo]

https://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=1060

More to the story.

I thought this was interesting:

"Proponents of a tramway cite the cachet of the lift..."

Is that true? I could envision that it was back when it was new as a big marketing deal, but I'd think a gondola has just as much cachet now. Or do folks really think of a tram as a big deal?

Personally, I hate trams and if it were me running the resort I'd be running to get a gondola instead. (Assuming the weather concerns with a gondola vs. the tram aren't that big a deal, which I also don't know.) If there's so much cachet, why wouldn't someplace like Stowe or Killington have put in a tram?

 

[SKI-3PO]

I believe the cachet is more with the summer visitors who probably use it more than skiers.

 

[Itinerant skier]

I believe the cachet is more with the summer visitors who probably use it more than skiers.

Yeah. The tram isn't a ski lift. It only runs on weekends during ski season, earning curses from this midweek Cannon skier. It's a summer and primarily fall sightseeing lift. It's also the oldest aerial tramway in North America.

There are already two sightseeing gondys within 20 minutes at Bretton Woods and Loon. The spot needs a tram.

 

[dbostedo]

There are already two sightseeing gondys within 20 minutes at Bretton Woods and Loon. The spot needs a tram.

I don't understand that comment. Why does it need a tram? Just to be different? What's a tram do that a gondola can't, especially given mainly summer use of the tram?

 

[scott43]

I don't understand that comment. Why does it need a tram? Just to be different? What's a tram do that a gondola can't, especially given mainly summer use of the tram?

I'm guessing at least one thing, accessibility. Plus it accommodates larger groups, you can walk around and get better views. I'm not advocating for one or the other, just saying.

 

[Wilhelmson]

I'm guessing at least one thing, accessibility. Plus it accommodates larger groups, you can walk around and get better views. I'm not advocating for one or the other, just saying.

And did the scope include the base structure/visitors center as well as the top lodge and new accessible viewing area? Redoing towers and counterweight? Parking, stormwater stuff we don’t know about?

 

[dbostedo]

you can walk around and get better views

That's a good point... provided it's not very crowded. I'd guess in the summer even if busy they don't pack it like they might for skiing, since the view and moving around is more of the point. Gondolas tend to get scratched up and not have nice clear windows.

 

[SKI-3PO]

I think the because it’s different factor is definitely important.

 

[scott43]

I've been on a few in Germany and Austria. They seem more popular there for whatever reason. They weren't busy and this was the shoulder season, not summer or winter. They're quiet and yeah definitely more scenic. For skiing I think it's a no brainer, gondola 100%.

 

[Itinerant skier]

I don't understand that comment. Why does it need a tram? Just to be different? What's a tram do that a gondola can't, especially given mainly summer use of the tram?

I think the because it’s different factor is definitely important.

Yep. It's a totally different experience than riding a gondola where you sit in your designated spot. Walk around, take pictures. Look at the marketing for the gondolas in the area. At Loon and BW, the view is from the top. At Cannon, it's often from the Tram itself. Or even of the tram. Tram cars are iconic in a way that gondola cabins just aren't. While it hasn't happened to me at Cannon, I was on a tram in Italy once where a spontaneous dance party broke out. When we all alighted at the end station, we looked at each other like: "that really just happened, didn't it?"

While the Gondola at BW is very scenic, the notch is just plain more dramatic. It also allows an entire bus tour to stay together, no small consideration in the summer and fall.