Pole Usage

[Lifer]

When?
Long v Short Turns?
Plants? Touches?
SL? GS? Speed?

Hands?
Pole carriage?
Arm usage?

Direction?
Placement target?
Snow Conditions?

What do you teach?

 

[Philpug]

Simply, use them when you turn left and when you turn right. Occationally when you are going straight to accelerate and some times to stop.

 

[Yo Momma]

I use mine like an ant uses it's antennas.... To help feel out and gauge the terrain. When learning to use them, you may also think of them as a sort of "Metronome" for ski turns. This is especially helpful once you're learning to manage moguls and on piste drills. A little hard core but ...Flip your poles upside down and practice pole plant timing drills indoors at home.
Arms.... deeper 3D snow arms wider to better manage balance during yaw, pitch and roll.

 

[pchewn]

There are many more ways to use your poles inefficiently than ways to use them efficiently.

• Try longer or shorter poles. See what works. My poles are longer. I prefer a more upright relaxed posture now than I used to when attacking mogul runs all day with shorter poles.
• Practice wrist-flip pole plants with arms moving less. This can be more efficient and prevent upper body over rotation.
• Position of pole plant: I prefer a pole plant just at the toe of the binding in normal conditions, further forward in steeper or deeper conditions. The most inefficient poling I see is too far to the back of the ski.
• Timing: The pole plant should usually occur at the moment of release (turn finish) to start the next turn. Again, you get to experiment with this. Most inefficient poling I see is far too late.
• For skating or striding propulsion, practice several different gaits of poles and skating. You will find that for each speed or "gear" of skating, the pole timing and usage is different. The X/C skiers practice and use all manner of different skating/poling strides which are useful for different speeds, grades of the trail, etc. When poling for propulsion, the poles are used behind you ... well behind you. You cannot pull on your pole to propel yourself -- get them behind you and push on them.
  • Double poling once for each leg skating.
  • Double poling push when one leg skates, arms forward when the other leg skates.
  • Staggered double poling on a climbing traverse.
  • Diagonal stride single-arm poling.

 

[jt10000]

When poling for propulsion, the poles are used behind you ... well behind you. You cannot pull on your pole to propel yourself -- get them behind you and push on them.

I know this thread is about poling in alpine skiing, but since you brought up poling when skate skiing, I have to object to focusing on having the poles behind and pushing on them.

The majority of poling energy in skate skiing occurs with the poles in front of the body. The tip of the pole will be set down around the foot - sometimes in front, sometimes behind - but the bulk of the pole is in front of the body, and to a very large extent poling is a pulling motion. The lat muscles are heavily engaged.

Later in the poling cycling, as the hands get near and even behind the trunk, the poles will be completely behind the body. There is less propulsion at this point, and sometimes none at all, just follow-through. You can see this throughout the excellent skate skiing video you posted, with a particularly clear example at 4:12.

Sometimes there is a little bit of push at the end - a little more so when skiing slowly and easily.

If skating on alpine skis on flat terrain, the proportion of power is a little more to pushing, since the shorter poles make it a little riskier to place the poles far enough in front to get a full pull (if the poles were set this far forward, there is a risk of placing the tips between the skis). But the start of poling is still pulling and if you only think about getting the poles behind and pushing, you will not be effective.

 

[cantunamunch]

Just to warn any casual readers...

If you've ever glazed over reading cyclist essays about gear inches, power and speed -only to segue into which part of the stroke we really use - well, pole length is the analog to gearing

*rubs hands*

 

[crgildart]

Using straps properly helps when pushing across the flats.. Saves wasted hand energy not having to actually squeeze/hold them tightly all the time.

Cue the "yer gunna die" if you use straps when skiing trees alarmists..

Seriously though, breakaway straps are a good thing pretty much everywhere..

 

[Yo Momma]

FYI Locals (ex instructors/patrollers) out west taught me to place the four fingers through the loop, as per excellent and proper usage pic above, but leaving the thumb under or outside of the loop. You get most of the benefits of push plus a little added safety in sketchy terrain and dense woods. When the pole catches I just open my hand and the strap flows off w/ ease. MUCH cheaper than breakaway straps...esp since I grab my FREE mismatched poles from the "Extras" bin at the mtn at the end of the season. That is essentially an end of season pole Recycling bin. The staff always says they are going in the garbage. Grab what you want... Please! I can't remember the last time I paid for Alpine poles. As the grips wear out, boil em (they come off super easy) and replace em. If the holes are too big I wrap the end of the pole w/ some gaffers tape and stick em on....

When out west during a trip, I found a ski pole bin in the supermarket. They were selling ski brand new ski poles for $9.99!!! OMG That Kerma pole, the one that is left.....is amazing quality and still serves me well as a fav one of a mis-matched pair. I busted the other in a chairlift mistake that would have killed ANY pole!!! LOL

For long cat tracks and slogs thumb goes like in the pic so you don't accidentally lose the pole.

 

[no edge]

Two types for me: stopping and regular. Then again there is a plant for bumps.

 

[fatbob]

My lay perspective is that they get in the way rather than help up to a certain level of perfomance and even then a pole plant is not always necessary and the "cue" effect can be achieved with a wrist flick or whatever.

Obviously have a more material role in bumps and in "feeling" the slope ahead in softer variable conditions. Plus the anchor point in jump turns and steep terrain.

Observationally most people run poles at least 5cm longer than optimum which enhances the "get in the way" effect.

 

[BLiP]

Seriously though, breakaway straps are a good thing pretty much everywhere..

Anyone actually have a LEKI strap release? I've been using them for years and love them, but I've never seen one actually break away as designed.

 

[Philpug]

 

[Rod9301]

There are many more ways to use your poles inefficiently than ways to use them efficiently.

• 
  
• Position of pole plant: I prefer a pole plant just at the toe of the binding in normal conditions, further forward in steeper or deeper conditions. The most inefficient poling I see is too far to the back of the ski

A simpler way to look at where to plant the pole:

Plant it in the fall line, below your bindings. This will insure that you don't lose counter.

 

[Chris V.]

Wait...bunny and carrot? I thought I invented that!

 

[KingGrump]

Anyone actually have a LEKI strap release? I've been using them for years and love them, but I've never seen one actually break away as designed.

Had plenty of release of my new LEKI pole when I switched to them in early June. About 45 days. Mostly in the lift queues and just poling along on the flats. Haven't had a release while actually skiing and/or while falling yet.

Come to think of it, haven't fallen since I switched to the LEKI poles. May be a good luck charm of some sort. Then I haven't fallen much lately. Perhaps the earth's gravitation pull is weakening.

 

[Chuck danache]

Anyone actually have a LEKI strap release? I've been using them for years and love them, but I've never seen one actually break away as designed.

Maybe twice, over the course of four seasons. Flat they did, when they did.

 

[Disinterested]

I've watched most trainers and examiners in a lot of associations steadily shorten theirs over the last 10 years as flexed releases are more and more emphasised, and since skating is minimally important to what they're doing. They're aiming for very flexed, and they don't want the pole to get in the way. So a lot of sub 120 pole lengths, a lot of coaching candidates to hold poles partway down.

 

[crgildart]

I've watched most trainers and examiners in a lot of associations steadily shorten theirs over the last 10 years as flexed releases are more and more emphasised, and since skating is minimally important to what they're doing. They're aiming for very flexed, and they don't want the pole to get in the way. So a lot of sub 120 pole lengths, a lot of coaching candidates to hold poles partway down.

+Shorter in the bumps and parlk. Longer in a race course (for the start). Longer steeps and touring.

 

[Chris V.]

One way to do it, quoting myself from the Rookies thread. Geri Tumbasz skis pretty well, so I suppose this technique is OK.

<<The following detail pertains to short radius turns. Standing across the hill, draw a triangle in the snow with a pole tip. The base of the triangle is the edge of your downhill ski, from tip to the middle of the boot. The other two sides of the triangle extend downhill, making a point that's halfway between the ski tip and the boot. Your pole plant will be at the point of the triangle, or back a bit from there toward the ski. At the time of your edge set near the finish of a turn, you should have brought your pole around progressively, and have tipped it forward and to the side. This is the ready position. The ski tip will be just a little off the snow. Use angulation to get the pole into the right orientation. If you're leaning into the hill, the tip will be too high. Make a firm pole plant during the transition, just at the time that the skis are flat, changing edges. It's a pole PLANT, not just a touch. You can put weight on it, use it as an additional aid to balance. Grasp your poles strongly, squeeze them, especially with your little finger. Let go with that one, and the pole will be flopping around. Make a strong frame with your arms and upper body. Both hands should move through the turn in a quiet, steady, strong fashion. No "milking the cow."

Now use that pole action to enhance your turn quality. Keep the skis together. On release, pop into the new turn. Use rounded steering to shape the turn. If it's firm, scrape the snow. Create your platform. Move into an edge set in the finishing phase. Remember, you need that moment of stability to facilitate the release. Have the pole in the ready position. Look downhill. "Face your fear."

Another drill. From a standing start, go straight downhill, make one turn with strong steering, bring the skis to an edge set, and ride them around until you stop. When you stop, have the downhill pole in the ready position, but do NOT make a pole plant. Instead, HOLD the edge set--you will probably start sliding backward, so just hold the skis in a backward carve until you stop again. The whole "system" has to stay strong to make this happen. This is NOT a hockey stop. There's no sideslipping. There is turn shape.>>

For more on Geri's thinking about pole plants, have a look at his discussion with Paul Simpson of SIA Austria:


Something else to think about, mostly in short turns, is the physics principle of conservation of angular momentum. Finishing the old turn, your body, or at a minimum some part of it, is rotating at a pretty good clip. Somehow, some way, you need to reverse that, in order to start a new turn in the opposite direction. It can be done only by transferring some part of your angular momentum to mother Earth. The pole plant can help with that.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Until you try different poles how is the internet going to tell you what is right? Or is it a conversation
piece?