My shortlist for new cheater gs, your thoughts?

[deadheadskier]

I have the Nordica GSM Pistons in a 180cm with a 19.5M radius. My understanding is these are just a slightly more aggressive than the GSR. Though I believe they have been discontinued . I find they can do shorter radius turn pretty easily. I actually took them for a spin in large moguls and they performed really well.

It's my beer league ski.

 

[evr66]

Think they are disc’d. My daughter (tall but only 65 kg at 1.85) likes the gsr’s so much, i’ll probably donate them. By now i find them a bit soft fir mtself (at 90-95 kg)

 

[DaddyFix]

Hey there evr66, wondering how you've been enjoying the Deacon Masters?
From the SkiEssentials review it looks like there's little camber underfoot, and slight tip/tail rocker. Does this take anything away from the ski's edge hold or rebound? How do they handle cut-up conditions in the afternoon?

Keep a lookout for the Nordica Dobermann Multigara. It is very similar in demeanor and capability to the X9rs and can do pretty much any turn shape with no fuss, and it has a very high speed limit.

I coach on the X9 and having tried it side-by-side with the Nordica Multigara the latter is a great ski - underappreciated.

And compared to the Head e Race Pro? I vastly prefer the Atomic and Nordica. It could be that my test pair of Heads had a questionable tune (that was a big issue at last spring's testing events, one that I pointed out to Head) but the Atomic and Nordica were more versatile weapons.

Hi Rudi, I'm also considering the Multigaras--it seems you love them; unfortunately, I haven't been able to find them to demo. Would you say they're as demanding as the Deacon Masters, Fischer Curv, Curv GT? (or more?) How do the Multigaras handle afternoon cut-up snow?

 

[evr66]

Hi daddyfix, absolutely love them! Rebound is fine, edgehold terrific. Van pressure them really without any problem. Have chosen the longest (178), partly because of lising some length to the rocker.

1 thing: only been using them on indoor slope so far. So not real icy, however messy snow in the afternoon was no problem at all, the skus just do what you tell and expect them to. They are torsionally quite rigid, so i don t expect issues holding on ice. I’m 2m tall and 94 kg’s, lighter skiers might have a different opinion, they are real skis, wuite hevay and stiff, no kids toys . However, for me, quite relaxed model i can ski all day long.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Hi Rudi, I'm also considering the Multigaras--it seems you love them; unfortunately, I haven't been able to find them to demo. Would you say they're as demanding as the Deacon Masters, Fischer Curv, Curv GT? (or more?) How do the Multigaras handle afternoon cut-up snow?

Yeah, they're not always in shops' demo fleet. I tried them directly from Nordica (at the media demo events) and was able to A-B test them against not only the Atomic X9 but also the Fischers you mention.

I think they're not going to be as good as, say, the Curv GT due to the narrower waist. The Multigara is really narrow underfoot - 70mm - and unless you're happy sinking into the snow a bit that might be a turn-off to you. For comparison, the Atomic X9 is 66.5mm underfoot and the Curv GT is 76mm. The Deacon is also wider underfoot than the Nordica.

As I come from a racing background I'm accustomed to skis that sink into the snow and am ready to deal with the consequences. That said: this season I've made the Nordica Steadfast 85 my daily driver when the snow is a bit more three-dimensional (e.g. cut-up crud in the afternoon, especially in the springtime).

I hope this helps!

 

[DaddyFix]

Thanks guys!

evr, great to know you can rely on them in variable snow later in the day. I often ski a few runs in the afternoons with the kids after they get out of ski school. I suppose the rocker makes it more versatile for that.

Any concerns of the piston plate leaking oil? I can't find any accounts online, but I did have the piston bindings in ~2007 which started leaking the same season I bought them.

Rudi, were the Multigaras more demanding / higher performing than the Curv GT? That's the one ski that I really liked in this category and was able to demo.

The thought of sinking into snow hadn't really occured to me, but what I would say is the narrowest ski I've demoed so far was 72mm (Laser SC). That day there was 3" new snow over groomed; when 2pm rolled around, the chopped up conditions didn't really cause much of a problem.

Altogether, the skis I'm looking at are:
Firebird HRC (69mm) in 175 (R15.8)
Curv (70mm) in 178 (R16.5)
Dobermann Multigara (70mm) in 175 (R16)
Deacon Master 72 in 173 (R15.4) or 178 (R16.4)
Curv GT (76mm) in 175 (R16)

...and because I found a good deal: WRT ST (66mm) in 172 (R14.8), but wonder if I'd regret that in afternoon conditions.

 

[James]

If you want wider, find one of the Salomon Force Bold from a few years ago, that’s like a wide Curve GT. It’s sad Salomon abandoned this line.

2022 Salomon S/Force Bold

Philpug: Even though the S/Force shares much of its DNA with the narrower S/Max, Salomon made the S/Force much more compliant at its extremities. The S/Force does come easy into a turn and even with its flared square tail, it can easily be worked out of a carve without any resistance. Where...

www.skitalk.com

 

[evr66]

@pistons: we have 3 older 4-6 yrs) volkl sets with pistons, have had no issues at all over the years

 

[anders_nor]

Thanks guys!

evr, great to know you can rely on them in variable snow later in the day. I often ski a few runs in the afternoons with the kids after they get out of ski school. I suppose the rocker makes it more versatile for that.

Any concerns of the piston plate leaking oil? I can't find any accounts online, but I did have the piston bindings in ~2007 which started leaking the same season I bought them.

Rudi, were the Multigaras more demanding / higher performing than the Curv GT? That's the one ski that I really liked in this category and was able to demo.

The thought of sinking into snow hadn't really occured to me, but what I would say is the narrowest ski I've demoed so far was 72mm (Laser SC). That day there was 3" new snow over groomed; when 2pm rolled around, the chopped up conditions didn't really cause much of a problem.

Altogether, the skis I'm looking at are:
Firebird HRC (69mm) in 175 (R15.8)
Curv (70mm) in 178 (R16.5)
Dobermann Multigara (70mm) in 175 (R16)
Deacon Master 72 in 173 (R15.4) or 178 (R16.4)
Curv GT (76mm) in 175 (R16)

...and because I found a good deal: WRT ST (66mm) in 172 (R14.8), but wonder if I'd regret that in afternoon conditions.

GF loves her ST, even in afternoon, I prefer some slight rocker, but for what it is, its supriingly not bad.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Thanks guys!

Rudi, were the Multigaras more demanding / higher performing than the Curv GT? That's the one ski that I really liked in this category and was able to demo.

They are higher performing - and thus a little more demanding - than the Fischer. Basically: it is a lot harder to find the breaking point on the Multigara than on the Curv GT. But that also means the Multigara has a bit more kick to it, less of a margin of error.

 

[markojp]

Head e race pro is the nicest color.

I’m surprised @anders_nor hasn’t lobbied you into the Stockli GS. It’s only 18.7m at 182cm. So still quite a lot of shape.

Laser GS

Wide, perfectly groomed slopes are its hunting ground. It loves wide, fast bends. The Laser GS impresses with its smooth running, even at high speeds. This is facilitated by the Carbon Steering Control technology developed in racing and an additional rubb

www.stoeckli.ch

ESpeed Pro (the new blue ones), 22m in a 180, is an absolutely lovely ski. Finally got on one that was tuned and mounted properly. Im ordering a pair next fall.

 

[DaddyFix]

Thanks everyone.
@evr66, A big relief to know the piston plates have held up well; I searched extensively to see if others had problems, but I guess mine was an isolated case. (It was a huge disappointment, BTW. When they were working, they transformed my otherwise chattery Rossi B2s into a damp speed machine).

A little more background...I've been skiing 2011 Mantras--2 full sheets of titanal, no rocker, 177cm, 20.3m radius (bindings on a demo track probably doesn't help, right?). All those years I didn't know how much harder I was working to make carved turns; didn't realize how much the 96mm waist was working against transfer of power to snow. The Curv GT 175 I demoed appears in Fischer's website under the 'race' category; I was expecting something more demanding, but it was very easy. So I probably shouldn't be too intimidated by these more demanding skis, right?

WRTs, Multigaras, and Deacons are all straight fire. Curious if any of you have tried them in 4-6" of powder? I have nothing against sinking into powder; I rather prefer it. If it's wet or deeper than that, I guess it'd be time to rent a wide ski if I only brought the skinnies on the plane.

 

[James]

You just learn to ski it in all conditions. Within reason. Yes, you have less options in how a turn is made. You adapt. 4-6 inches? If you can “carve” a turn in 3-d snow it’s no problem for double that. No need to rush out and rent.

That won’t be a problem for you if you’ve been skiing a 2011 Mantra and can halfway carve a turn. Oh the complaints on that ski as too difficult and “hooky”! We could go to @KingGrump for history on that.

Most of your skis on the list are not “cheater gs” skis, but that’s ok, just terms. You wouldn’t call a 70mm 13m carver ski a “cheater slalom”.

Stop doing so much research. There are thousands of piston plates in use out there. No need to worry about oil leakage. I know you’re skiing a 14 yr old ski, this next one, probably not.

 

[johnb]

I have the Deacon Master 76 in 176 length. I am 5'9 155 lbs, age 48. These skis are amazing, big sweeping turns at highway driving speeds. This is my first season on them, they are stable, smooth and fly. I live for steep groomers with hard packed snow, this is the perfect ski.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Thanks guys!

evr, great to know you can rely on them in variable snow later in the day. I often ski a few runs in the afternoons with the kids after they get out of ski school. I suppose the rocker makes it more versatile for that.

Any concerns of the piston plate leaking oil? I can't find any accounts online, but I did have the piston bindings in ~2007 which started leaking the same season I bought them.

Rudi, were the Multigaras more demanding / higher performing than the Curv GT? That's the one ski that I really liked in this category and was able to demo.

The thought of sinking into snow hadn't really occured to me, but what I would say is the narrowest ski I've demoed so far was 72mm (Laser SC). That day there was 3" new snow over groomed; when 2pm rolled around, the chopped up conditions didn't really cause much of a problem.

Altogether, the skis I'm looking at are:
Firebird HRC (69mm) in 175 (R15.8)
Curv (70mm) in 178 (R16.5)
Dobermann Multigara (70mm) in 175 (R16)
Deacon Master 72 in 173 (R15.4) or 178 (R16.4)
Curv GT (76mm) in 175 (R16)

...and because I found a good deal: WRT ST (66mm) in 172 (R14.8), but wonder if I'd regret that in afternoon conditions.

Re: the HRCs- after not liking the previous gen HRC (76 waist) I love the current 69 waisted skis, but I'm on the 170s. They're much more nimble and quick turning.
The WRT STs are always a good choice, and as for afternoon conditions, it depends - they can handle some slop (up to 2-3"?) on a firm base easily; after that it depends on your skill.

 

[DaddyFix]

Appreciate all your input guys!
Been incommunicado due to a combination of travelling, and really torn as to which ski. Frontrunners were Multigara in 175 or 180, Curv or Deacon 72 in 178, then dabbled with the idea of Laser GS, Firebird WRC too. Wish I could have them all...

The reality has hit though, that I don't get as many ski days as I like, and probably get the best value with something that will serve a greater portion of the variable conditions I'll likely ski. I went down the backside at Copper today--3" new snow over icy moguls. The type of stuff I might encounter (unwillingly) when I get to go out with the boys. Stuff that I used to ski even on my old B2 Bandits (76mm).

Re-enter Curv GT into the conversation...it would still give me the option of skiing stuff like this (on top of fast frontside groomers) whereas I'd probably have to turn the other way back down the mtn with the stiffer, narrower 70-72mm choices I've been torn between.

If I go with a Curv GT, then should it be 175 or 182...coming from 177 Mantras with no rocker I think I'd like the extra stability at speed in 182. Would the swing weight be similar to a longer but narrower GT in 182 (i.e. not any more punishing in the trees)?

 

[DaddyFix]

Pulled the trigger on the Curv GT in 175! Thanks for everyone's input; all your comments helped get me to a final decision.

If anyone is looking for a deal on WRT ST in 173 (30% off MSRP), call Ski Barn in Wayne, NJ to see if they're still there.