What do you reckon? Should I shoot for the stars and get 188/30 instead of the RS?
How likely am I to die within the first couple of runs?
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Masters GS skis: glossary request ('cheater', 'tweener', 'masters', etc)
- Thread starter slow-line-fast
- Start date
What do you reckon? Should I shoot for the stars and get 188/30 instead of the RS?
How likely am I to die within the first couple of runs?
If you are not running gates or free skiing mid-week without any crowds on the hill, the 188/30 is not smart. The 183/24 if MUCH more versatile if you are not predominately in a race course.
Please forgive me, once again.
The above is true if you are really laying them over, and in different locations besides here in Colorado:
IF you are optimizing their racing skills, both in gates and recreationally.
They like a pretty wide lane at speed/laid way over, and they are fast enough to scare folks around you,
if there are a lot of them, such as back East, in many places in Europe, and
in much of California. In Colorado or elsewhere in the Rockies, it just depends.
I was out with them on a Monday, a few days after a big dump, so even though it is spring break,
there were fewer folk than usual at Keystone, in certain places, where there are basically three mountains,
one behind the other, with two or three little used steeper groomers on both the two back mountains that
rarely have much traffic at predictable times - and it was less traffic even than usual, as I'd hoped.
Often, there were fewer than half a dozen skiers on the visible stretch of the groomed slope,
above and below.
On weekend groomer slopes where short turn skis become useful for safety,
among lots of skiers, these skis would not come out a whole lot, to do what they do best.
That said, this ski in some ways is like the FIS SL, in that it has different gears.
You see, you can put a bunch of experimentation into ski styles and dynamics,
when you are only skiing these recreationally, and your goal is maximum fun
rather than just maximum speed: fast turns or slow; compressed turns or expanded;
really trenching into the snow (slower); or flexing the ski at the top of the turn, then
accelerating out of it down the mountain, with a lighter touch (faster).
As with the FIS SL skis, there is a very synched in low gear with the 188/30
that one can downshift to almost on a dime when wanted, where you are going
slower and in amazing tighter turns - on this ski, believe it or not - say, when a gackle of
weekend skiers happens to have bunched up before you. It is really fun to go into and
out of this slower gear when it's useful, or for a change of pace. (And this is a gear
you'd never want or need, if you are always doing gates or training for gates, for speed.)
(Again, forgive me, please.)
I can't age with this ski the way I can with the FIS SL, but for now it adapts to my "old guy"
usage really well - very satisfying. Relief. What an amazing ski!
Fully concur with Ski Otter 2 above.
Please forgive me, once again.
The above is true if you are really laying them over, and in different locations besides here in Colorado:
IF you are optimizing their racing skills, both in gates and recreationally.
They like a pretty wide lane at speed/laid way over, and they are fast enough to scare folks around you,
if there are a lot of them, such as back East, in many places in Europe, and
in much of California. In Colorado or elsewhere in the Rockies, it just depends.
I was out with them on a Monday, a few days after a big dump, so even though it is spring break,
there were fewer folk than usual at Keystone, in certain places, where there are basically three mountains,
one behind the other, with two or three little used steeper groomers on both the two back mountains that
rarely have much traffic at predictable times - and it was less traffic even than usual, as I'd hoped.
Often, there were fewer than half a dozen skiers on the visible stretch of the groomed slope,
above and below.
On weekend groomer slopes where short turn skis become useful for safety,
among lots of skiers, these skis would not come out a whole lot, to do what they do best.
That said, this ski in some ways is like the FIS SL, in that it has different gears.
You see, you can put a bunch of experimentation into ski styles and dynamics,
when you are only skiing these recreationally, and your goal is maximum fun
rather than just maximum speed: fast turns or slow; compressed turns or expanded;
really trenching into the snow (slower); or flexing the ski at the top of the turn, then
accelerating out of it down the mountain, with a lighter touch (faster).
As with the FIS SL skis, there is a very synched in low gear with the 188/30
that one can downshift to almost on a dime when wanted, where you are going
slower and in amazing tighter turns - on this ski, believe it or not - say, when a gackle of
weekend skiers happens to have bunched up before you. It is really fun to go into and
out of this slower gear when it's useful, or for a change of pace. (And this is a gear
you'd never want or need, if you are always doing gates or training for gates, for speed.)
(Again, forgive me, please.)
I can't age with this ski the way I can with the FIS SL, but for now it adapts to my "old guy"
usage really well - very satisfying. Relief. What an amazing ski!
You guys are making me more and more confused.
A simple answer please-Should I buy 188/30 FIS SL Atomics, yes or no?
Will I die the first run? Yes or no?
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- Dec 2, 2015
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You tell us how you ski on an anthill, and then ask if you should get a 188/30??
Have all those fat ski turns warped your mind? 183/24
Or, get the 188/30 and ski it a lot like we skied straight skis. They’ll do short turns.
Good point about the anthill, yes, that I do most of the time.
However, sometimes i ski here:
This is as close to high speed carvers paradise as it gets. At the spot just under my ass on this pic I regularly hit 100+ km on the 180 WRTs, so I am wondering…
And the runs continue from here for about 3-4 km more down the mountain. Long speed skis will be godsend in some of these dream days in March. I regularly ski here the 189/27 Head Masters I just want something with more energy and rebound, something that will feel like Redster FIS SL but longer.
You won't die. Your skill set will expand comfortably, I'll bet. Fun.
In terms of the ski itself, the woman's, not the longer men's,
it's about as demanding as the first year OG Stockli WRT 172 ST, not the later versions, though
different, and less of a fit for crowded slopes. It will take some runs or days to adjust to it,
and learn from it,
probably.
Racers of many skill levels must do routine laps on FIS GS skis in Europe, I gotta think!
So up to you, especially because you have to ski such inappropriately crowded terrain, for the most part, seems like.
I'd say yes, if you can figure out regular patterns of having relatively fewer folks on the slopes at times;
and maybe if you see racers using FIS GS skis on your slopes, then possible.
The masters GS skis are easier, more laid back, more versatile in terms of crowds - and less of a learning curve.
P.S. I still own a pair of 185/23 Dynastar GS Speed Masters (non-FIS) 71 width, that was a favorite of the regional
Dynastar rep, that is much more laid back and versatile, in terms of crowds, that I really like also, and probably
ski a bit more, especially early and late season. It is an equally fine alternative, more of a sure thing.
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OK good. Masters GS I am comfortable with, no problems on the Heads although I find them a bit muted. And I am probably the only one on this forum who is mad about the Hero Masters
I also own Stockli FIS GS the 184/25 version but very very limited time on them to form an opinion.
Heck what could possibly go wrong with 188/30 Atomics, if I don’t like them I will flip them no biggie, enough of this overthinking ffs…
Man, I just got to your amazing photo of a perfect GS ski slope, with the right amount of length and crowdedness, and also to your explanation
of what you are after: a longer race ski with the pop and excitement - and challenge - of your 180 WRTs.
The woman's 188/30 is perfect for that: longer ski, longer turns, same excitement and challenge that has not gotten old, that
one keeps learning and growing from as a skier, year after year. (And that every year I get challenged with, in new ways.)
Yeah, that‘s a perfect high speed carving slope-a purple one in my classification-a mix of blue and red, not too flat, not too steep, quite wide. And is long enough to go supersonic.
This season is too late already but next one 188/30 is on top of my list along with another pair of FIS SL.
As you know, the brand matters. I have a pair of Volkl 188/30 that are too soft, and don't have the ease of a Masters GS ski,
nor the carve and excitement of the better 188/30s.
Like @DocGKR I am a fan of the Atomics. For me, of the more limited selection of brands I've tried, second best are the Rossis:
to me more even, predictable flex, but not as much excitement or immediate response, as has been already posted. I've also liked
the Head third best, as very precise and efficient/neutral. But that last preference may be because I'm fond of the old guy
coach who championed the Heads to me for years, and skis them to such perfection, even through health issues.
nor the carve and excitement of the better 188/30s.
Like @DocGKR I am a fan of the Atomics. For me, of the more limited selection of brands I've tried, second best are the Rossis:
to me more even, predictable flex, but not as much excitement or immediate response, as has been already posted. I've also liked
the Head third best, as very precise and efficient/neutral. But that last preference may be because I'm fond of the old guy
coach who championed the Heads to me for years, and skis them to such perfection, even through health issues.
Oh, one more thing: (You probably know this already. Sorry.)
For the 188/30 ski especially (but also for any FIS ski, including the FIS SL skis), it is not necessary, but preferred,
to begin your process with lots of runs on green (lower angle) slopes at first - to patiently get in a lot of runs,
over multiple days - and experiment -
getting used to what works for you, optimal dynamics/technique, for you, with these more demanding FIS skis.
The stiffer the version, the more this may be so. To get your flow right, and fun, from the start.
This is the regular routine approach for race coaches with their young (and old) race students. This way,
you get the technique right and can get it ingrained, to the point where it becomes unconscious, routine,
off the bat. To keep it playful. So one doesn't pick up quirky or stressful habits that have to be unlearned,
especially in the case of young (and old) racers. So you get used to the ski and make it safe for you, easy,
before going to steeper terrain.
The urge here is often to just go for the terrain we see the racers on often on the tour, the steepest groomer slopes available.
You have to give yourself permission to get on lower angle slopes a lot at first, and just have a good time there.
In the long run, this will probably make things work better and be more fun overall, more natural.
(Believe it or not, this continues to be the case throughout a race career, whatever skill level. This is a lot of the
reason you see at least practice race courses, and young racer courses, set up on very easy, low angle slopes everywhere,
for even the top racers in the world.)
(Mikaela Shiffrin, for example, often trains locally, day after day, alone or with one other racer, on low angle slopes
she rents routinely at both Loveland Valley Ski area and on easier slopes at Loveland Basin up the road, nearby.
Local recreational skiers almost never go to Loveland Valley to ski, past the beginner stage: they just think of it as too easy,
and too short.
Not racers. Not Mikaela.)
For the 188/30 ski especially (but also for any FIS ski, including the FIS SL skis), it is not necessary, but preferred,
to begin your process with lots of runs on green (lower angle) slopes at first - to patiently get in a lot of runs,
over multiple days - and experiment -
getting used to what works for you, optimal dynamics/technique, for you, with these more demanding FIS skis.
The stiffer the version, the more this may be so. To get your flow right, and fun, from the start.
This is the regular routine approach for race coaches with their young (and old) race students. This way,
you get the technique right and can get it ingrained, to the point where it becomes unconscious, routine,
off the bat. To keep it playful. So one doesn't pick up quirky or stressful habits that have to be unlearned,
especially in the case of young (and old) racers. So you get used to the ski and make it safe for you, easy,
before going to steeper terrain.
The urge here is often to just go for the terrain we see the racers on often on the tour, the steepest groomer slopes available.
You have to give yourself permission to get on lower angle slopes a lot at first, and just have a good time there.
In the long run, this will probably make things work better and be more fun overall, more natural.
(Believe it or not, this continues to be the case throughout a race career, whatever skill level. This is a lot of the
reason you see at least practice race courses, and young racer courses, set up on very easy, low angle slopes everywhere,
for even the top racers in the world.)
(Mikaela Shiffrin, for example, often trains locally, day after day, alone or with one other racer, on low angle slopes
she rents routinely at both Loveland Valley Ski area and on easier slopes at Loveland Basin up the road, nearby.
Local recreational skiers almost never go to Loveland Valley to ski, past the beginner stage: they just think of it as too easy,
and too short.
Not racers. Not Mikaela.)
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Hey folks, hope to get some help with a replacement for an older well-loved pair of racing skis that it looks like are due for a replacement now that I am getting back into training for gates.
These are Nordica Dobermann GSR WC skis from (I believe) the mid 2000's. They are 183, marked as R>=21 on the side, and otherwise I can't find any dimensional information other than the length (on the tail of the ski are the numbers 183 030070).
I'm wondering what the best idea for replacing them is. The most obvious thing would be just another set of Nordicas, of which the 183 length appears to be the closest even though the radius is marked as >=23 (https://www.nordica.com/usa/en/men/skis/race/dobermann-fis/dobermann-gs-race-plate). That said I am open to suggestions (as I've seen the Rossignol highly recommended here). For reference my height is 5-8 and my weight is approx 170lbs.
These are Nordica Dobermann GSR WC skis from (I believe) the mid 2000's. They are 183, marked as R>=21 on the side, and otherwise I can't find any dimensional information other than the length (on the tail of the ski are the numbers 183 030070).
I'm wondering what the best idea for replacing them is. The most obvious thing would be just another set of Nordicas, of which the 183 length appears to be the closest even though the radius is marked as >=23 (https://www.nordica.com/usa/en/men/skis/race/dobermann-fis/dobermann-gs-race-plate). That said I am open to suggestions (as I've seen the Rossignol highly recommended here). For reference my height is 5-8 and my weight is approx 170lbs.
That Nordica is a great ski--I very much enjoy the 188/25m version of it, as documented here: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/a-tale-of-two-188cm-gs-skis.28574
The other ski that you would likely enjoy is the Rossi (or identical Dynastar) 182/25m--I use the 185/27m version of this ski: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/mas...-tweener-masters-etc.22461/page-7#post-864703
More here: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/mas...-tweener-masters-etc.22461/page-6#post-832884
The other ski that you would likely enjoy is the Rossi (or identical Dynastar) 182/25m--I use the 185/27m version of this ski: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/mas...-tweener-masters-etc.22461/page-7#post-864703
More here: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/mas...-tweener-masters-etc.22461/page-6#post-832884
Awesome! Thanks for the info! So from reading your descriptions I'm kind of leaning toward the Rossi, do you think the extra radius would make them more difficult for me coming from a 21m ski?
I think I found the Rossignol here:
www.peakskishop.com
Does that look correct? It says non-FIS in the product name but then "FIS-approved" in the description.
I'm kind of surprised how inexpensive both options are compared to "normal" skis. The Rossi costs a bit more but I'm not sure if that indicates any difference in quality?
I think I found the Rossignol here:
2024 ROSSIGNOL HERO ATHLETE GS NON FIS
The Hero Athlete JR FIS GS is a FIS approved World Cup GS race ski designed for elite-level U16 athletes and competitive racers.
www.peakskishop.com
I'm kind of surprised how inexpensive both options are compared to "normal" skis. The Rossi costs a bit more but I'm not sure if that indicates any difference in quality?
U14-U16 FIS ski (headline is wrong). You have to add binding to that price too, Look SPX. But for what you get ... it is a lot of ski for your money. It is a proper race construction with the best materials, real race skis, built for racing in race courses. My daughter was on Rossignol through those years and the shorter ones are not as nice as the longer ones. Don't look too much at the radius, flex is more important and you can (learn to) bend the ski into pretty short turns. In the extreme, look at WC athletes forcing their 30+ GS boards into a parallell course with 20 meter distance between the gates. Dynastar are the same models, just different paint jobs, so if you find them at better prices, go for it. Good luck.Awesome! Thanks for the info! So from reading your descriptions I'm kind of leaning toward the Rossi, do you think the extra radius would make them more difficult for me coming from a 21m ski?
I think I found the Rossignol here:
Does that look correct? It says non-FIS in the product name but then "FIS-approved" in the description.2024 ROSSIGNOL HERO ATHLETE GS NON FIS
The Hero Athlete JR FIS GS is a FIS approved World Cup GS race ski designed for elite-level U16 athletes and competitive racers.
I'm kind of surprised how inexpensive both options are compared to "normal" skis. The Rossi costs a bit more but I'm not sure if that indicates any difference in quality?
Awesome! Thanks for the info! So from reading your descriptions I'm kind of leaning toward the Rossi, do you think the extra radius would make them more difficult for me coming from a 21m ski?
I think I found the Rossignol here:
Does that look correct? It says non-FIS in the product name but then "FIS-approved" in the description.2024 ROSSIGNOL HERO ATHLETE GS NON FIS
The Hero Athlete JR FIS GS is a FIS approved World Cup GS race ski designed for elite-level U16 athletes and competitive racers.
I'm kind of surprised how inexpensive both options are compared to "normal" skis. The Rossi costs a bit more but I'm not sure if that indicates any difference in quality?
No, these are not these.
You need this:
HERO ATHLETE GS 185 R22 | RACE | Rossignol
HERO ATHLETE GS 185 R22. Discover Rossignol ski & snowboard equipment, urban wear, technical wear, bikes: take advantage of ✓ Free delivery ✓ Free returns.
www.rossignol.com
They only come in one length: 185
Forget the radius, if you are good enough to ski 21m race ski, you won’t have troubles skiing 27m.