Factory bevel angles for Bizzard Junior Race skis?

[alaskaskierdad]

Anybody know definitively what the factory bevel angles are for Blizzard junior race skis?? There seems to be a lack of consensus on the interwebs. Some sites claim 1:3 for SL and 1:2 for GS, but there are enough contrary opinions to make me question it.

Why don't the manufacturers publish these angles on their websites?

Any help appreciated.

 

[Philpug]

Don't worry what they come out of the box with...be more concerned what they should be. Your 1/3 for SL and 1/2 for GS is a good start for a U10. As they get older and more aggressive you can to .5 and .7's.
All race skis need to have their tunes addressed.

 

[Josh Matta]

I would go 1/3 and on both. There is no reason to not have as sharp of an edge on the GS skis as SL skis.

 

[Primoz]

I never got this obsession with "factory set angles". I don't mean anything bad with this, but could someone please explain me, why does it matter what kind of angles someone decides to set in factory? No, there's nothing like "this angles do best on this particular skis, so guys in factory put them on". Everyone set angles that they suit them best, especially when it comes to race skis, so it's pretty much irrelevant if skis come out of factory with 1/3, 1/1, 0/6 or anything in between. If skis come out of factory with anything but 0/0, you grind them and set your own angle regardless what original angles were.

 

[alaskaskierdad]

Soooooooo, you guys don't know what the factory bevel angles are?

 

[alaskaskierdad]

Dudes, I appreciate the advice, I really do! But a bit of perspective:

My daughter's are 8 and 10. They race for ice cream cone coupons not Olympic medals.

When I bought the skis they were sharp from the factory. I let my progeny ski them and they liked the way they felt relative to their old skis. They improved their results and won more ice cream cones. I have neither tuning skills nor experience, nor do I care to obtain either. I just want to keep their edges sharp so they can keep winning ice cream cones.

I am way to lazy to do all that you suggest and the potential for me to screw up a brand new set of skis is pretty high. I'm too cheap to pay the shop to do it. I have more than come to terms with my laziness and lack of discipline. I'm pretty sure I am a horrible parent.

Acknowledging my incredible laziness and inadequacy as a father I say again--Does anyone know the factory edge bevels of Blizzard Junior Race skis?

 

[ScotsSkier]

As primoz says, the "factory" angles could be all over the place, especially on junior race skis and just a guestimation!. With my coach's (and race tech) hat on, given what you are looking for and the intended use I would keep it very simple. Your daughters are happy with the way they are skiing. So, save yourself time and money and DO NOTHING to the base. Set the edges at 3 degrees (a waste of time doing anything less on a race ski) and let them ski them. Unless the base is WAAAAy out of whack - and this would show up skiing them - do nothing to it at the moment. Besides, the ONLY thing you can do to the base bevel yourself, without taking it for a grind is INCREASE it.

 

[hbear]

So correct me if I'm wrong. You don't want to learn how to tune, you don't want to pay the shop either. So just out of curiosity why do the factory bevels matter then?

For what it's worth, I believe they come out at 1*base and 2* side for those jr race skis. I haven't seen a 3* factory side edge on a jr ski either.

 

[Muleski]

Spot on advice from those ^^^^^. No need to obsess, but it's a good idea to get them all consistent, and keep them tuned.

No need for fancy structures. But a peek with a true bar is sort of essential. No need for fancy flouro race wax, but having some basic hydro wax in the bases is good. And yeah, I think setting up a 3 degree bevel on them all makes sense.

I would bet dollars to donuts that the way they arrive out of the wrapper is not that consistent. Might not be totally consistent from ski to ski.

My son coaches slightly older kids, but young enough where he is very involved in equipment choices and setup. Every new pair gets a grind, gets the sidewalls pulled, the base and edge bevels set, and then some love with the wax iron and brushes. Unless they are team or Europa Cup stock coming right from the Euro race room....which yours are not.

He probably does this to 200 pairs a season. Some are Blizz.

Doing this has zero to do with any results. Has to do with enabling each kid to learn to work the ski better, see some progress in their skiing, start to make good consistent turns, and have some fun. He is also big on having the kids understand how this works, and take on some responsibility.

But "factory tune" is dependent on the day, who is running skis through what machines, how they have cured, where they get stored and how they get shipped....and a lot of other stuff. There is really no such thing, as Primoz said.

All fixed with one initial tune. And as @ScotsSkier says, if they are working, and they look OK with a true bar and light, the bases are probably fine.

Awesome journey as the dad of racers! Have fun! Don't beat yourself up, but realize that some of this will help and make a difference. Pay somebody to set them up and then take on the rest. No super time consuming. Most actually enjoy it!

 

[BGreen]

@alaskaskierdad You have been given some pretty solid advice above, but you discount because it wasn't what you want. I'll add to the pile of advice you will likely discount. If your children are skiing in boots that haven't been aligned by someone who knows what they are doing, go 1/3. That will give you a ski that will slide easily, but still arc up when edged properly. In general I will recommend 1/3 for U10s and 0.5/3 for U12, partly because it is very easy to add base bevel.

I don't really know what "factory angles" mean. Are you talking about what you got from the factory, or what they were supposed to be? Have you seen the variability of the skis that come out of that factory?

When @Muleski says they are not consistent he doesn't just mean that not all skis are the same, but that the skis are likely wavy or convex on one end and concave on the other. It is not uncommon to have skis from the factory that are so wavy you can't really iron or scrape them.

As has been said a few times here, 1 (base) and 3 (side) and be done. Now the next question is do you know that your shop can and will accurately put on the angles you request? I had two pairs of skis ground by two very reputable people from two different shops. One I instructed to grind the base at .5, the other I just said to tune them so they ski well. The skis from the person that I told to make them ski well (I generally send him skis to tune before they are used) had about half the base bevel of the ones I had done at 0.5. I asked what he set the base bevel to and he said .75. One shop is Wintersteiger, one is Montana, both are meticulously maintained and calibrated. Which one is right? This is why when you asked for factory angles, none of us can give a straight answer.

Another question that you should ask yourself is why do they need to be stoneground? As @ScotsSkier said, once your base edge is set you rarely change it unless you damage the ski or need a grind for a different snow condition (e.g. cold dry winter vs. warm wet spring). Perhaps you might be better off just having them sharpened. If your bases are smooth and flat, find a shop with a ceramic edger that knows how to use it.

 

[Swede]

Reccomendation in the club we're in has been 88 for side bevel up until U14 when I think everyone go to 87 in SL and most in GS. For SG 88. Base somewhere beteeen 0.5-1.
Personally, I don't find the difference in side bevel that dramatic as long as the edge is very sharp, even in a race course.
For free skiing, I think that different base bevels have a greater impact to the feel of the ski.

 

[James]

I never got this obsession with "factory set angles". I don't mean anything bad with this, but could someone please explain me, why does it matter what kind of angles someone decides to set in factory? No, there's nothing like "this angles do best on this particular skis, so guys in factory put them on". Everyone set angles that they suit them best, especially when it comes to race skis, so it's pretty much irrelevant if skis come out of factory with 1/3, 1/1, 0/6 or anything in between. If skis come out of factory with anything but 0/0, you grind them and set your own angle regardless what original angles were.

The obsession I believe comes from a belief that skis are engineered precisely and manufactured exactly. So in order to get the best out of a ski one needs to locate Hans, Fritz, Paolo, Jacques, Jakob etc smoking at the bar and find out exactly what the designer of that particular ski intended. Those who've been around awhile know this doesn't matter and you make them what you want. Plus manufacturing is not precise and skis can arrive in god awful shape due to glues moving or who knows what. Or they can be quite good.