Angulation feels like....

[Jilly]

Headlights....shoulders downhill....or for us ladies another part of the anatomy. Snot...nose over the outside ski. SkiBam using these terms in her teaching. I'm having the orange juice problem too. The only place my phone fits is in the pocket on my mid layer fleece or down sweater. So bending on the right side is sometimes a problem till the phone moves....

 

[T-Square]

I hate it when my farthingale gets tangled in the boot buckles tho.

If you are wearing a farthinggale you have more troubles than just boot buckles.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

that is what spinal angulation feels like.

So... what do you feel?

 

[Erik Timmerman]

It's a funny one, these "feelings". I always took it to be at least in part what Cantunamunch says. My rib coming to my hip. In part anyway. I now realize I didn't always feel that. In bumps, that is not what it feels like to me. I skied with Terry Barbour two Monday's ago for examiner training, and he had the group working on angulation. Actually, it was couched in terms of the five fundamentals. It seems that in December, it was observed that as a group, the PSIA-E Ed Staff could be better at this.

Toward the end of the day, we were doing some turns on North Slope. I did my best imitation of his demo and got two thumbs up as I went by, but as I went by I heard him say something to another skier, something like "you don't want to feel the pinch in your side". I threw myself into a carve and circled back up to Terry. I was like "Wait a minute, did you just say...". Yes, he did not mis-speak. I have enough faith in Terry that even if what he says goes against everything that I "know", I can take that onboard and go for it. He also said "this is why your inside and outside legs are close in length". OK. So next run I tried for a feeling of a "comfortable fold" at the waist. Interesting. My first thoughts, maybe I've been working too hard on "leveling". Also, I could definitely feel more length in the outside leg. WhatI'd like though is to focus on a feeling rather than an absence of a feeling.

I want to work more on this next winter. I need to reconcile it with drills that I have done a lot. The comfortable fold is exactly what I feel in Javelin turns and when skiing bumps, but in medium radius turns, I want to squeeze that lemon. Maybe in those turns I've been leveling too much? How does this relate to White Pass? My goal is to make the outside ski regain contact with the snow at the fall line through leveling. Can I do that without feeling the lemon squeezer? Not sure.

If focusing on the "comfortable fold" the idea of inclination before angulation feels unforced and natural, but also the angulation has to come later than I'd expect it to.

 

[cantunamunch]

If you are wearing a farthinggale you have more troubles than just boot buckles.

Oh for sure. I mean keeping the hennin out of my goggles Is a nightmare, and plucked eyebrows are just gah against the foam.. but hey it's so totally worth it to be a proper sidesaddle damsel.

 

[cantunamunch]

So the sensation needs to correlate to foot separation?

It's a funny one, these "feelings". I always took it to be at least in part what Cantunamunch says. My rib coming to my hip. In part anyway. I now realize I didn't always feel that. In bumps, that is not what it feels like to me. I skied with Terry Barbour two Monday's ago for examiner training, and he had the group working on angulation. Actually, it was couched in terms of the five fundamentals. It seems that in December, it was observed that as a group, the PSIA-E Ed Staff could be better at this.

Toward the end of the day, we were doing some turns on North Slope. I did my best imitation of his demo and got two thumbs up as I went by, but as I went by I heard him say something to another skier, something like "you don't want to feel the pinch in your side". I threw myself into a carve and circled back up to Terry. I was like "Wait a minute, did you just say...". Yes, he did not mis-speak. I have enough faith in Terry that even if what he says goes against everything that I "know", I can take that onboard and go for it. He also said "this is why your inside and outside legs are close in length". OK. So next run I tried for a feeling of a "comfortable fold" at the waist. Interesting. My first thoughts, maybe I've been working too hard on "leveling". Also, I could definitely feel more length in the outside leg. WhatI'd like though is to focus on a feeling rather than an absence of a feeling.

I want to work more on this next winter. I need to reconcile it with drills that I have done a lot. The comfortable fold is exactly what I feel in Javelin turns and when skiing bumps, but in medium radius turns, I want to squeeze that lemon. Maybe in those turns I've been leveling too much? How does this relate to White Pass? My goal is to make the outside ski regain contact with the snow at the fall line through leveling. Can I do that without feeling the lemon squeezer? Not sure.

If focusing on the "comfortable fold" the idea of inclination before angulation feels unforced and natural, but also the angulation has to come later than I'd expect it to.

 

[Yo Momma]

Excellent thread! Enjoying learning from the numerous perspectives.........

 

[Josh Matta]

So... what do you feel?

What it feels like to me is irrelevant. I have hyper sensitive body awareness, to me its feels like my femur is moving in my hip socket. I normally coach inside hip driving up and forward to get people to change their skiing. Some people are entirely unable to feel what they are doing and have to be continually coached to keep repeating a task.

what terry is saying makes sense. If your outside hip is getting pulled towards your outside shoulder your shoulder will be level but your hips will bank into the turn . Years ago in clinic with a Stowe Trainer I tried to go against the idea of pinching your side, and instead think about lifting the inside hip(pelvis bone) and was basically told I was inexperienced and did not know what I was talking about. The Student I was trying to fix now skis with entirely level hips all the time but the coaching was causing this weird shoulder turning from 'trying" to pinch.

 

[Monique]

I don't understand the "shouldn't feel the pinch" thing. Maybe it's more like Josh said - it's not that you shouldn't feel the pinch, but that the pinch should occur due to a specific set of movements and interactions.

I have heard from instructors that the trouble with a "feeling" is that people internalize feelings differently. The obvious one is that some people feel a pinch on the inside while others feel a stretch on the outside. But there's also a more internal difference, like does that feel like a vibration or sharp or poky or ...? I can't think of good example words, but basically in a lesson group, not everyone will feel the same experience the same way, which is why "feeling" is only one way to talk about it.

 

[Jenny]

Oh for sure. I mean keeping the hennin out of my goggles Is a nightmare, and plucked eyebrows are just gah against the foam.. but hey it's so totally worth it to be a proper sidesaddle damsel.

And, thankfully, the ruff keeps the wind off your neck nicely . . .

 

[Mike King]

My upper body is in opposition to my lower body.

Mike

 

[Josh Matta]

My upper body is in opposition to my lower body.

Mike

great at which joint?

 

[Mike King]

Acetabulum.

 

[HeluvaSkier]

There is not much pinch when done right. Only pull... on the opposite side of where most look for a pinch (or a lemon that could have been used for a margarita).

 

[Monique]

There is not much pinch when done right. Only pull... on the opposite side of where most look for a pinch (or a lemon that could have been used for a margarita).

I think this depends on the ... fluffiness of the person in question.

 

[Josh Matta]

physics does not care about your body shape.........except for alignment.

 

[Monique]

physics does not care about your body shape.........except for alignment.

More fat under the skin means more of a fold.

 

[cantunamunch]

I think this depends on the ... fluffiness of the person in question.

What HS is saying is that the sensation of stretch aka elongation on the long side aka the 'strong' side completely overrides the sensation of folding on the squishy side - and this is independent of body type.

 

[Jamt]

Relaxing on the outside, letting go just enough on the inside.

 

[oisin]

Angulation is what you are almost certainly doing if you are skiing in good balance with a high edge angle on very hard snow. That is where it becomes critical to good skiing. Most people prefer skiing on soft snow because that is where they can balance well without much angulation.
What is the key to being able to do it? Counter. If you are able to get counter because your legs are turning independently of your upper body you can balance by angulating which is mostly just folding at the waist. If you were square to your skis folding at the waist would simply move your upper body forward which wouldn't make much contribution to lateral balancing. Your attempts to angulate would be limited to your ability to bend sideways at the waist, not very comfortable and most of us cannot bend very much in that way.

So, edge angle (inclination of your legs), upper and lower body separation (achieved with leg rotation, not body rotation) and balancing laterally by comfortably bending forward at the waist.

What does it feel like? It feels great.