Would you buy skis without a demo first?

[Monique]

But that's only assuming you are able to demo enough of them in models and sizes that work and also find that love..Not to mention finding the conditions when you demo that are on par with what your use to spending most your time skiing in. Nothing about that is technically "right away" but can actually be quite the process.

But also.....isn't it also very possible an initial love for a ski can (via some more extended ski time) end up being something you no longer feel are as great as you originally thought? and perhaps even be unhappy with? I mean you can grow to love a ski you ended up buying without demoing but imo it would then stand to reason that you can also grow to hate a ski you thought were great on a demo. We can generalize but I just don't think there is anything ensuring for certain either way.

I don't think you'll grow you hate a ski you love just because of time.

But you might grow out of that ski by becoming a more proficient skier or by changing the sort of terrain you ski on most of the time. That is unlikely to cause hate, just more of a nagging feeling it's time to move on.

I've never grown to hate a ski I liked while demoing. For that matter, I don't remember ever HATING a ski at all.

 

[Tricia]

I just need someone to listen Phil..that won't judge. And that's what my barten...uhh..ski guy gives me. No judgement..I feel validated..he empathizes..

 

[Tricia]

Well I would, but I was born to seek adventure.

There really is so much information available these days, it's unlikely you can get it totally wrong.

And living where you can't just run up to the hill for a half-day to try something out, you really just have to take a leap of faith.

While we live in a "demo first" world, I totally respect the people who don't have a chance to demo and take the time to read our reviews and ask questions to consider their purchases.

There are many people for whom a demo doesn't make sense; including but not exclusive to, people who are coming off equipment that is more than 5 years old. Generally, if a person whose on ski gear that has a generation or two older technology, just about any ski demo'd will seem amazing. (baring the vast difference between a powder ski and a carving ski)

 

[scott43]

While we live in a "demo first" world, I totally respect the people who don't have a chance to demo and take the time to read our reviews and ask questions to consider their purchases.

There are many people for whom a demo doesn't make sense; including but not exclusive to, people who are coming off equipment that is more than 5 years old. Generally, if a person whose on ski gear that has a generation or two older technology, just about any ski demo'd will seem amazing. (baring the vast difference between a powder ski and a carving ski)

Yeah and that's me kinda. I mean, can the average intermediate/advanced skier tell the difference between a bunch of skis? How much does tune affect the feel? I dunno..it's easy to get mushed up and they all start to blur together. It's nice..you can see what you're getting..but..I don't know that I'm qualified to make good judgements on that stuff. I'll trust the pros like you guys who ski a LOT and on different gear.

 

[Tricia]

Yeah and that's me kinda. I mean, can the average intermediate/advanced skier tell the difference between a bunch of skis? How much does tune affect the feel? I dunno..it's easy to get mushed up and they all start to blur together. It's nice..you can see what you're getting..but..I don't know that I'm qualified to make good judgements on that stuff. I'll trust the pros like you guys who ski a LOT and on different gear.

These are really good questions.
I think most can't tell the difference, mostly because they don't know what they don't know, yet. There are a few intermediates who have a keen sense of what they like and don't like but they aren't sure why.

I recall when Phil and I were trying to set up a couple intermediate testers to come with us to ski test.
We carefully picked a male and female who had a great "sense" and yet teachable on how to discern a tune, construction, binding mount, etc...

@Stephen is a ball room dancer and instructor. That dude can feel minute differences, yet he was a solid intermediate. When he had a question about a ski and wondered if it was a tune, he brought it to @Philpug.
@AmyPJ is another one, who knows what she likes and what she doesn't. We spent some time with her on flex, mount, construction. She picked up on the nuances quickly.

I recall a guy coming into the shop last year who said, "I want a ski like my old Metron B-5. When I replaced it, I read the reviews and got the top ski in Ski Magazine, which is the Nordica Enforcer. I hate it. Its too wide, and doesn't ski at all like I want."
Doh!!!
The Enforcer is a great ski, but its not the ski I would have suggested for a guy coming off a Metron B-5.

 

[Monique]

Yeah and that's me kinda. I mean, can the average intermediate/advanced skier tell the difference between a bunch of skis? How much does tune affect the feel? I dunno..it's easy to get mushed up and they all start to blur together. It's nice..you can see what you're getting..but..I don't know that I'm qualified to make good judgements on that stuff. I'll trust the pros like you guys who ski a LOT and on different gear.

My take is - I don't care if it was the tune or the ski that I didn't like. They had an opportunity, they failed to execute, they lost the sale. Unlike the staff here, I don't have to be conscious of the wider world - I just have to know if it worked for me or not.

If you're completely hung up on one particular ski, maybe the bad tune matters - but I'd argue you really shouldn't be hung up on wanting to like one particular ski. Let the skis speak for themselves.

 

[Wilhelmson]

I'm your regular weekend and vacation week advanced skier and I could definitely tell that one pair of popular skis were like wet noodles, the Kastles were oh so smooth on hardpack, and the 187 Bonafides were a blast, although probably a bit big for me in the woods.

At on-mountain demo days do the dealers typically sell the skis right off the rack at a discount?

 

[Lorenzzo]

I don't think you'll grow you hate a ski you love just because of time.

But you might grow out of that ski by becoming a more proficient skier or by changing the sort of terrain you ski on most of the time. That is unlikely to cause hate, just more of a nagging feeling it's time to move on.

I've never grown to hate a ski I liked while demoing. For that matter, I don't remember ever HATING a ski at all.

It's also the lure of what's new., the sense that newer is better. Even if we consciously know that not to be true, our subconscious pulls at us.

And sometimes things we see that we like become annoyances. You try and raise kids together. The excitement wanes and before you know it you're looking around .

 

[Goose]

While we live in a "demo first" world, I totally respect the people who don't have a chance to demo and take the time to read our reviews and ask questions to consider their purchases.

There are many people for whom a demo doesn't make sense; including but not exclusive to, people who are coming off equipment that is more than 5 years old. Generally, if a person whose on ski gear that has a generation or two older technology, just about any ski demo'd will seem amazing. (baring the vast difference between a powder ski and a carving ski)

is 5+ years really enough to feel an amazing difference? I think this depends on which 5 years one is talking about. Every so often (not just with skis but most any performance based products) new tech and/or materials comes along which changes the industry and sets the new benchmarks for the future. and sometimes there can be multiple leaps made in a rather short time frame as that new tech then opened windows and sprouted wings. But that later part is a rarity. For the most part when new tech results in new benchmarks its often very many years in between before another one bests it by any truly significant game changing margin again.

Could that happen in just 5 years? sure it can. It could happen next year. Things happen whenever they do. But often its a lot longer before that happens. It just depends when a person last bought what their products. I mean by it just before a game changing rewvolution and you can be out of date quickly. But other than that unlucky timing there wouldn't imo be such an amazing new world to be found in just any era of more than 5 years. Many ski models are around for a number of years and often enough name and graphics changes are really simply the only major change made to a given model.

I mean assuming a ski isn't past its effective useful life I don't think 6,7,8 years and even more is always going to be worlds apart in amazement when new model vs old. Not unless there was that true game changer that took place during that time.

More and less forgiving skis, different models and different types of skis and different ability level skis of course are an amazing thing when one changes skis. But that stuff is completely different vs simply being over 5 years old.

 

[Monique]

At on-mountain demo days do the dealers typically sell the skis right off the rack at a discount?

No, they need to take the demo inventory to all the planned demo's throughout the year. As part of the Loveland demo day, I got a coupon for $100 off skis if I buy them at Christy's, which sponsors the demo. Has to be by the end of the year, though.

 

[Tricia]

My take is - I don't care if it was the tune or the ski that I didn't like. They had an opportunity, they failed to execute, they lost the sale. Unlike the staff here, I don't have to be conscious of the wider world - I just have to know if it worked for me or not.
.

I agree with parts of this, these parts.

• When a demo center sets someone up with a demo ski, they should make sure the ski is in the best condition possible so that you(the consumer) gets the experience they need to decide. In that light, you're right. The demo center missed an opportunity to execute a good demo.
• When a shop employee goes to the industry demos to decide what skis to order for their shop(s), the manufacturer should own it. You only have one chance to make a first impression. Some manufacturers make mistakes, but some seem to be ambivalent about the tune.
• Some skiers may demo a ski and develop bias against that ski or manufacturer based on a bad tune. That's sad.

If you're completely hung up on one particular ski, maybe the bad tune matters - but I'd argue you really shouldn't be hung up on wanting to like one particular ski. Let the skis speak for themselves.

I'm not sure I understand this. I'm not sure if "hung up on" is the right term, or the term you intended, but..my take is...

• Some skiers ski the same ski most of the time. These are also people who are particular about the tune on their skis, all of their skis if they have multiple pair.
• Some skiers ski multiple skis, but like a certain feel from a ski.
• Some skiers can ski different skis but like the same tune (example: 1/2, .5/3)

 

[David Chaus]

When I demo at my home mountain (Stevens Pass), I have a route or two I use to test each ski on the same terrain. One variation is for frontside/carvers, the other for off-piste/all mountain/powder skis. Both routes include bumps, and with the off-piste skis it includes double-diamond bumps and crud. Maybe I am demoing the tune first, but at least they are all on the same terrain and pretty much the same conditions.

I may not be able to compare the nuances as well as many others here who report on their demos or long-term tests, but I can definitely feel how well each ski performs for me in the conditions I tend to ski, and on terrain I am familiar with. And even the differences in lengths of the same ski, if I have the opportunity to try them.

Sometimes what difference a ski makes isn’t obvious when I’m skiing it. I recall at the Whistler Gathering I demoed the Renoun Z90, excited to see what the buzz was about. I liked it, but didn’t note too many obvious advantages over my Rev 85’s for me. Then next day, I was back on my own skis and at the end of the day, realized how tired I was, skiing pretty much the same type of terrain. I realized the dampening of the Renouns kept me from getting as tired the day before. I was able to ski assertively, offensively, more efficiently, for longer. One or two runs wouldn’t have convinced me, but a whole day certainly did.

Other times, based on my route on my home mountain, I know within the first bump and crud run whether a ski is a standout for me, and the rest of the demo time is just having fun.

So, I might be convinced to buy without demoing, but probably not. I feel it has been valuable to me to demo.

 

[dbostedo]

...but I'd argue you really shouldn't be hung up on wanting to like one particular ski...

Another thought, or maybe this is what you were getting at... I wonder if a lot of folks are looking for the ONE ski that will be PERFECT or THE BEST (whether that's the perfect carver, perfect deep snow ski, etc.) It definitely can cause anxiety in folks and difficulty choosing.

I'd prefer to just acknowledge that there are a lot of skis I'd like and just try to hit a range or type. There are always going to be trade-offs.

When I bought my first pair of skis a couple of seasons ago, I hadn't ever done a demo day, but I had rented a few different skis. All I knew was that I wanted something fairly easy to ski, that I could improve on as an intermediate on mostly groomers. So I considered the Atomic Nomads, Dynastar Powertrack, Rossi Experience, Elan Amphibio etc. In my mind they were all pretty darn similar for what I wanted/needed. So I bought the Nomads based on the deal and the shop guy's take. I hadn't skied it, but it worked out great.

Now for someone with a lot more knowledge base and a bigger quiver that really knows what they like, the situation might be different. But there are likely still trade-offs, and not a singular perfect ski.

 

[Monique]

• Some skiers ski the same ski most of the time. These are also people who are particular about the tune on their skis, all of their skis if they have multiple pair.

• Some skiers ski multiple skis, but like a certain feel from a ski.

• Some skiers can ski different skis but like the same tune (example: 1/2, .5/3)

Hm. Maybe we're talking about different things. I just mean, sometimes people get it in their head that a particular ski is the one they need to demo and the one that needs to work for them. So I suppose in that case, you could go back and verify the tune because you really, really wanted that ski to work for you. And that's valid, but there's almost certainly another ski that would be just as fun, and it might actually have a decent tune at the demo.

If you like a different tune than are present on the demo ski, that's trickier. I have no idea how I personally would be able to separate that out.

 

[Tricia]

Hm. Maybe we're talking about different things. I just mean, sometimes people get it in their head that a particular ski is the one they need to demo and the one that needs to work for them. So I suppose in that case, you could go back and verify the tune because you really, really wanted that ski to work for you. And that's valid, but there's almost certainly another ski that would be just as fun, and it might actually have a decent tune at the demo.

If you like a different tune than are present on the demo ski, that's trickier. I have no idea how I personally would be able to separate that out.

That makes more sense.
Yeah, someone demoing can get hung up on "ski magazine said..."
That is someone who needs to broaden their outlook.

 

[AmyPJ]

I'm definitely that intermediate who can tell the differences between skis, even if I can't always give a great technical description as to what I'm feeling. And I'm also (based on experience, and I don't always follow my own advice) a big fan of demoing prior to purchasing. I can also tell you that I seem to have an affinity for Blizzard and Nordica skis, although I have had others from other manufacturers that I've owned/own, but I just seem to really like the feel of those to makers in particular.

 

[Goose]

And so its been mentioned in this thread as for some good reasons demo days may not work.
-Being available on the same day as a demo day
-Being practical enough to take the travel trip
-Getting poor conditions that day
-Not finding your choices and sizes available
-poor tune
-etc,...

But I also wonder how often demo days are ruined for an honest newcomer just by default of being out of the local loop? What I mean is this.....So someone reorganizes life to make plans for a lengthy enough trip out to a demo day. They arrive and find its all about who knows who at the local hill and also the reps and cant really find much a way into trying much of anything at all.

Similar sometimes goes on at golf demo days. You can sort of get the local players hogging up their local place and also being friendly familiar with the reps and/or shop or shops. Becomes sort of a closed group play day. And an outsider cant barely get the time of day. Worst part is that many those locals hogging things up in their close circle really dont have a true desire to purchase but simply want to try. Its conveniently close for them, they have the time, know everyone, get their paws on whatever they want to try for no real reason except for personal enjoyment. Yet the person who traveled for some serious demo considerations cant get the time of day.

Im not saying this happens a lot or at all as I just don't know but Id image it might and would ask you if it does happen enough. Sort of more of a play with toys day for the local group of familiar faces and their familiar reps and/or shop employees bias in their favor than actually a real demo day for serious buyers. Does that ever go on at "some" demo days?

 

[dbostedo]

And so its been mentioned in this thread as for some good reasons demo days may not work.
-Being available on the same day as a demo day
-Being practical enough to take the travel trip
-Getting poor conditions that day
-Not finding your choices and sizes available
-poor tune
-etc,...

But I also wonder how often demo days are ruined for an honest newcomer just by default of being out of the local loop? What I mean is this.....So someone reorganizes life to make plans for a lengthy enough trip out to a demo day. They arrive and find its all about who knows who at the local hill and also the reps and cant really find much a way into trying much of anything at all.

Similar sometimes goes on at golf demo days. You can sort of get the local players hogging up their local place and also being friendly familiar with the reps and/or shop or shops. Becomes sort of a closed group play day. And an outsider cant barely get the time of day. Worst part is that many those locals hogging things up in their close circle really dont have a true desire to purchase but simply want to try. Its conveniently close for them, they have the time, know everyone, get their paws on whatever they want to try for no real reason except for personal enjoyment. Yet the person who traveled for some serious demo considerations cant get the time of day.

Im not saying this happens a lot or at all as I just don't know but Id image it might and would ask you if it does happen enough. Sort of more of a play with toys day for the local group of familiar faces and their familiar reps and/or shop employees bias in their favor than actually a real demo day for serious buyers. Does that ever go on at "some" demo days?

I've only done a few, but I've never seen anything like that at all. All the ones I've done, you walk up to the tent/table, ask about what they have, pick a pair, take them out for a couple of runs, and repeat. You might have to wait a bit to get to one of the reps at the tent if it's busy.

 

[CalG]

The real issue is that just about any "good" new ski with a crisp tune skis better than the ski you have put 60 days on because you liked it so much.

Call it tune, call it new, call it crisp. We all have felt it. And I'm sure that single aspect has accounted for more "demo daze" sales than actual ski performance differences.

 

[François Pugh]

The real issue is that just about any "good" new ski with a crisp tune skis better than the ski you have put 60 days on because you liked it so much.

Call it tune, call it new, call it crisp. We all have felt it. And I'm sure that single aspect has accounted for more "demo daze" sales than actual ski performance differences.

I've demonstrated many skis that I would not trade for my well used Fischer WC SCs. No how, no way.
I've once had a demo that had a bad tune, but I could tell it was the tune - the edges were duller than dull.
I've bought skis (for less than $100) hoping they would fit that hole in my quiver, and while they did not, I still enjoy skiing them. While I would prefer they did everything I wanted them to do, I can accommodate their inadequacies, and while in one case I've grown to like them less than when I first got them, in another I've grown to like them more the more I skied them, even though they still won't do everything I want out of them.