Where should the Newbie be positioned on the trail?

[coskigirl]

And we shouldn't expect them to.

This thread has been around awhile, so I might be repeating myself. But when we ski past beginners, it is not sufficient to ski so that we know we are not going to hit them. We should ski so that THEY know we are not going to hit them.

A few years ago a former athlete of mine went flying by my current group at Mach 20 on a steep, icy section that already had my athletes nervous (not my choice of run, the only way down from the race course). Later that day I found her and explained that I knew she was in control and wouldn't hit them but asked if she remembered when she skied with me and the older racers would fly by her. She made the connection immediately and nearly broke down in tears she felt so bad. It's easy to forget as a skilled skier.

 

[L&AirC]

A few years ago a former athlete of mine went flying by my current group at Mach 20 on a steep, icy section that already had my athletes nervous (not my choice of run, the only way down from the race course). Later that day I found her and explained that I knew she was in control and wouldn't hit them but asked if she remembered when she skied with me and the older racers would fly by her. She made the connection immediately and nearly broke down in tears she felt so bad. It's easy to forget as a skilled skier.

Wow! Just this past season, I stopped all the U10s on the side of the trail when I saw this happen. They weren't out of control but we were doing tasks on challenging terrain and moving fast. I saw a couple people (struggling) on the trail spin their heads around as the went by and I could see it spooked them. I stopped the athletes and told them that we have to remember they ski better than most adults, and when other skiers see them doing odd things (I actually had a skier ask if they were asking on one ski because they were bad) they think they are out of control and going to crash into them.

I asked them to keep their distance and look at the situation from the other skiers perspective (I'm not sure an 8 y/o can do this). It's easier to explain to older kids, especially if they have started driving. I tell them to imagine if the first time they drove was on the highway with cars flying by you doing 70 mph and they were too scared to do 40!

 

[Monique]

The guy below you had the right of way. If you're so close he's freaking out, it's on you.

No, you can't use that as a metric. Some people will freak out if you're on the far side of the run, just because you passed them at all.

If you're so close that a *reasonable* person would find it disorienting - sure.

And this is why this thread has gone on for pages. Because "too close" is entirely subjective. I don't remember if anyone's mentioned this already, but it's like that George Carlin observation: "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Great discussion on a subject that applies to all skiers of all abilities. My approach and strategy has changed and evolved over time. Love the god given edge of trail ski line. For several years I would break off my line and politely ski around stopped skiers immediately returning to my favorite line once I had safely passed. Time and time again these stopped skiers felt the need to pull out just as I was passing resulting in may close calls but luckily no collisions. Reason remained a mystery to me but I chalked it up to some automatic human behavior. When I started skiing the idiot gap the problem went away. Sometimes I get the stink eye but it is the safest line in my personal experience. I take care to ensure my snow spray goes toward the trees.

Maintain a long list of good safe places to stop on the mountain in my head. Only problem that I have is convincing my wife that getting out of the way of downhiil traffic is a good self preservation idea. She will stop exposing herself needlessly to up hill traffic. Her argument is that is their responsibility to avoid her. Tried reasoning and pleading to no avail. When anyone is heading her way she points her ski pole towards them. Changing the bad habits of a strong willed spouse is next to impossible I have learned.

 

[fatbob]

Maintain a long list of good safe places to stop on the mountain in my head. Only problem that I have is convincing my wife that getting out of the way of downhiil traffic is a good self preservation idea. She will stop exposing herself needlessly to up hill traffic. Her argument is that is their responsibility to avoid her. Tried reasoning and pleading to no avail. When anyone is heading her way she points her ski pole towards them. Changing the bad habits of a strong willed spouse is next to impossible I have learned.

Too many people act like this out of ignorance - to do so deliberately is asking for trouble. Regardless of right or wrong a pointed ski pole isn't going to save your wife if a 250lb tail sitter loses it at speed above her.

 

[markojp]

.... page 5. Impressive!

 

[KingGrump]

As a New Yorker, we have learned long ago even though we have the legal right of way as a pedestrian, it's still ain't smart to play in traffic.

 

[Sibhusky]

Of course, I've been yelled at for stopping on a trail like this, with equivalent traffic, because it was the "middle of the trail". For all I know, it was when I took this picture. No, I'm not below some headwall. Guy was just being a jerk.

 

[slowrider]

 

[Read Blinn]

When I first drove in the city, after eight years in California, a pedestrian stepped off the curb on Broadway between 116th & 120th street, and I hit the brakes and came to a sudden halt. The guy looked at me like ???????!?!?!

 

[Don in Morrison]

Of course, I've been yelled at for stopping on a trail like this, with equivalent traffic, because it was the "middle of the trail". For all I know, it was when I took this picture. No, I'm not below some headwall. Guy was just being a jerk.

I'd stop there to take that picture. And I've never had a problem adjusting my line to avoid a lone skier in the "middle of the trail". I don't even yell at a row of snowboarders sitting below a roller. I just ski around them and complain about them to someone else later.

 

[slowrider]

 

[KingGrump]

When I first drove in the city, after eight years in California, a pedestrian stepped off the curb on Broadway between 116th & 120th street, and I hit the brakes and came to a sudden halt. The guy looked at me like ???????!?!?!

I remembered when we were younger, we would going around the block again so we get a second crack at the pedestrians. I guess you can say we were independent subcontractors for Darwin.

 

[kayco53]

Would think the biggest thing would be not to stop in blind spot. Like below the crest of a hill and try to be predictable so people can pass safely. Give yourself room so you don't end up going over a edge or to fast. You will get better soon.

 

[Kiki]

This is true for older newbies, as well as experienced folks. It's pretty common to turn toward the source of the sound before fully processing what the sound meant.

I've done the pole clacking, but that seems rude. "Beep beep" could be taken either way. I haven't encountered a perfect answer

I appreciate it when people do the pole clacking, it seems very considerate of them especially if they are swooping up next to me on a road piece, then i just hold steady amd let them go instead of being shocked when they leap in to my peripheral vision. I don't consider it rude at all, rather the opposite.

 

[T-Square]

For years I’ve had bells on my poles (and outriggers . The light jangle as I ski lets people know where I am.

I put them on my poles years ago when working with adaptive skiers. It helps blind skiers know where I am and most kids, and adults, get a kick out of them. Along with my helmet horns they are my trademark.

 

[François Pugh]

I mostly just slip silently by before they notice I'm there, but sometimes I say "on your left" or "on your right" as a means of educating new skiers. When I do say "on your right" or "on your left", I am prepared for the skier to do anything, including cut me off.

 

[tball]

Being visible is key. In addition to where you stop, think about what you wear.

I'm a firm convert to bright clothing. Same as when I'm road biking. I don't care if it's in fashion anymore or not, just want to live to ski and ride another day. That goes triple for my kiddos.

Even with the amazingly segregated terrain at Copper, I'm still scared for them every time we ski. That's in spite of the nearest blue or black run being miles away. I don't know if I could do it in good conscience elsewhere.

 

[Mikey]

Other than the obvious of not stopping right out of site somewhere under the lip of a slope, I submit there is no real good place to stop. If you are stopped in the middle or the side or wherever, skiers seem to active seek you out as some kind of target turning point. Happened to Nat and me on many different occasions. Most recently, skiers (not snowboarders) made their turn within 3 feet of us. One guy made his turn at a high rate of speed passing me and another gal decided she needed to make her rather nice controlled turns within 2 feet of Nat. I was in the WIDE open on the side of a very wide trail section in a cruddy area on a blue run and Nat was nearer the side way (say about 10 feet from the side to give room to the folks that feel the need to get between us and the side) at the bottom of a slope on a green run. I've lost count of all the other times folk have come blasting by us within close proximity.

I have found the safest places to stop is behind the slow signs. Seems like people give them a wide berth for some reason

 

[Novaloafah]

Other than the obvious of not stopping right out of site somewhere under the lip of a slope, I submit there is no real good place to stop. If you are stopped in the middle or the side or wherever, skiers seem to active seek you out as some kind of target turning point. Happened to Nat and me on many different occasions. Most recently, skiers (not snowboarders) made their turn within 3 feet of us. One guy made his turn at a high rate of speed passing me and another gal decided she needed to make her rather nice controlled turns within 2 feet of Nat. I was in the WIDE open on the side of a very wide trail section in a cruddy area on a blue run and Nat was nearer the side way (say about 10 feet from the side to give room to the folks that feel the need to get between us and the side) at the bottom of a slope on a green run. I've lost count of all the other times folk have come blasting by us within close proximity.

I have found the safest places to stop is behind the slow signs. Seems like people give them a wide berth for some reason

I

If there is a sign around, I will stop behind it as well. They are designed to be visible and most people don't want to hit them. Other than that in the wide open out of the flow of traffic is what I aim for. I can't imagine passing as close as 3 feet from somewhat unless I have really reduced speed because the terrain has tightened up or it's super crowded.