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Goose

Out on the slopes
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When I fall, I go big! ogsmile
haha I here ya. I feel falling is part of skiing. Imo its also related to pushing yourself to be good. And it doesn't have to be at speed. There are even times Ive even fallen on fairly flat terrain while practicing technical movements or at times simply daydreaming and just not paying much attention. Honestly I think I fall more on flatter terrain than I do on steeper. I don't recall the last time a I fell charging down a steep. But yet I can recall many times I fallen on lessor terrain especially as I try to perfect technique which I then take with me to the steeper terrain.
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
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Dec 22, 2015
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10,893
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NJ
The good skier is the one always trying to be the better skier
That may be true to a point, but at some point you are going to just want to go out and enjoy being on the mountain. Maybe we should not think about every movement as making us better skiers but think about the over all skiing experience. Does it really matter if one turn is ugly after you made three or four good ones? I have as much fun skiing a blue trail as I do skiing a black trail although I ski the black trail a little slower and not as technically good looking. So at some point it does not matter if every movement is perfect just ENJOY what we do, SKI...
 

Goose

Out on the slopes
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That may be true to a point, but at some point you are going to just want to go out and enjoy being on the mountain. Maybe we should not think about every movement as making us better skiers but think about the over all skiing experience. Does it really matter if one turn is ugly after you made three or four good ones? I have as much fun skiing a blue trail as I do skiing a black trail although I ski the black trail a little slower and not as technically good looking. So at some point it does not matter if every movement is perfect just ENJOY what we do, SKI...
No it technically doesn't matter. In the end its only skiing and like most forms of recreation is just not important in life but is only a way of finding fun and enjoyment. So no it really doesn't matter much at all. Like you I can also very much enjoy blue runs and I do often. I can also ski with my wife (and through the years my kids) on them. Now they can go anywhere but still I enjoy blues. I like it all. I have different enjoyable feelings on steeper terrain and I enjoy that in a different way than the blues. And no one does really care how "good" or not anyone really is. We are there for fun and that's all that really needs to matter. With the exception of being unsafe of course.

That said , it all just depends on what one wants from skiing. Speaking of myself only, I find the desire to be a good technical and efficient skier something that motivates me. It something (within whatever level of ability one may think I am) that I always (relatively speaking) try to be each time I go. That's important "to me" when I ski. But that's because I find enjoyment in taking that approach. I find that it opens doors and brings a little bit more of an enjoyment level than I already have. That doesnt mean anyone else should have to do the same or feel the same. There is nothing that anyone is "suppose" to do that's truly right or wrong. There are no rules for that. There is no such thing as that. Its there if one wants it and wants to go about it that way. But that is all.

It can be suggested to people that if they were to increase their skiing efficiency that it can open doors and bring a different outlook to it and their enjoyment. But that doesn't make anyone right or wrong and that ideology cant be forced on anyone but only suggested. In the end we spend time and money on this recreation and as long the enjoyment is worthy of those spent resources no one really cares accept the person who choses to do whatever it is they do. That's all that truly matters.
 
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TS
martyg

martyg

Making fresh tracks
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That may be true to a point, but at some point you are going to just want to go out and enjoy being on the mountain. Maybe we should not think about every movement as making us better skiers but think about the over all skiing experience. Does it really matter if one turn is ugly after you made three or four good ones? I have as much fun skiing a blue trail as I do skiing a black trail although I ski the black trail a little slower and not as technically good looking. So at some point it does not matter if every movement is perfect just ENJOY what we do, SKI...

I totally agree. In a future article I'll be discussing that exact topic. There is a time and place for it all.
 

JayT

Tahoe Powder Junkie
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One can survive down a run without falling but that doesn't at all mean they are good at skiing. And good skiers can and do fall.

The best skiers fall quite frequently - probably more often than your average skier - because they're pushing it on difficult lines and bigger drops.
 
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TS
martyg

martyg

Making fresh tracks
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No it technically doesn't matter. In the end its only skiing and like most forms of recreation is just not important in life but is only a way of finding fun and enjoyment. So no it really doesn't matter much at all. Like you I can also very much enjoy blue runs and I do often. I can also ski with my wife (and through the years my kids) on them. Now they can go anywhere but still I enjoy blues. I like it all. I have different enjoyable feelings on steeper terrain and I enjoy that in a different way than the blues. And no one does really care how "good" or not anyone really is. We are there for fun and that's all that really needs to matter. With the exception of being unsafe of course.

That said , it all just depends on what one wants from skiing. Speaking of myself only, I find the desire to be a good technical and efficient skier something that motivates me. It something (within whatever level of ability one may think I am) that I always (relatively speaking) try to be each time I go. That's important "to me" when I ski. But that's because I find enjoyment in taking that approach. I find that it opens doors and brings a little bit more of an enjoyment level than I already have. That doesnt mean anyone else should have to do the same or feel the same. There is nothing that anyone is "suppose" to do that's truly right or wrong. There are no rules for that. There is no such thing as that. Its there if one wants it and wants to go about it that way. But that is all.

It can be suggested to people that if they were to increase their skiing efficiency that it can open doors and bring a different outlook to it and their enjoyment. But that doesn't make anyone right or wrong and that ideology cant be forced on anyone but only suggested. In the end we spend time and money on this recreation and as long the enjoyment is worthy of those spent resources no one really cares accept the person who choses to do whatever it is they do. That's all that truly matters.

Goose - great narrative.

One of the aspects of WW paddling that I stress is that the roll is the easiest thing that you will ever learn, the forward stroke the hardest. However the consequences of not rolling are generally more tangible.

With that I emphasize to student,Instructors candidates and Instructors working on their Instructor Trainer level that the forward stoke is padding's gift to you. It is the thing that keeps you going out, day after day, seeking to perfect it. And if we follow Eastern philosophies, perfection can never be totally attained.

Those sessions on skis and in the boat is what enabled me to catch soul inspiring sunrises, or watch a few hundred salmon swim up a rapid so think that you couldn't dip a blade without hitting one, or being in the raw of a storm when the mtn was ready to be shut down. It is the thing that keeps us going out, when many of our colleagues are enjoying the warmth of their home.
 

Wolfski

Getting on the lift
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Apr 13, 2017
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240
Exactly, no one tries to make a bad turn and most everyone tries to make great clean turns but does everyone try and improve each run or turn? To me it's the very nature of being on skis as every turn on every run is a new experience to be enjoyed. Now if you make turns for a living the scenario changes a bit but the enjoyment factor still needs to be fed.
 
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TS
martyg

martyg

Making fresh tracks
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Why is that so?
I mean in genral I never was much a bragger about things by nature. But what does that have to do with how good someone is?

Let me see If I can answer.....

It is about approaching life and everything as a beginner so that you are always in a position to learn. The person who considers themselves and "expert', a "master" is the person who has stopped taking a critical look at their efficiencies, and stopped taking the advice if those wiser than them. IME those who have practiced an endeavor (sports, medicine, music, business, etc) for five years think that they have it figured out. Those in their game for 10 years think that they have mastered it. Once you reach the 20 - 25 year mark, IMO, it is the place where practitioners realize that they have just started their journey.

For the record.... I in no way think that I am a good skier. I see things that I need to work on, and the list is long. I've also had the gift of rubbing elbows with the sport's best either as friends, coaches or athletes that I sponsored. I actively seek out advise of those wiser than me and clinic maybe 10 - 20 days a year. What I am however, is wise enough to know that I don't know everything, and to continue my journey of learning and mastery.

As I tell people - Enjoy The Journey.
 

graham418

Skiing the powder
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That may be true to a point, but at some point you are going to just want to go out and enjoy being on the mountain. Maybe we should not think about every movement as making us better skiers but think about the over all skiing experience. Does it really matter if one turn is ugly after you made three or four good ones? I have as much fun skiing a blue trail as I do skiing a black trail although I ski the black trail a little slower and not as technically good looking. So at some point it does not matter if every movement is perfect just ENJOY what we do, SKI...

Sure. We can all go and have fun, and I do all the time. No, not all of my turns are perfect, and some of them , quite a far stretch to perfect. But I do get satisfaction in trying to get everything a little "more better" . Its the same when I'm sailing. It doesn't detract from my enjoyment, it adds to it.
Maybe, one day, before I get too old, someone may see me from the lift, and say " Hey , that guys a good skier" ;)
 

Goose

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Let me see If I can answer.....

It is about approaching life and everything as a beginner so that you are always in a position to learn. The person who considers themselves and "expert', a "master" is the person who has stopped taking a critical look at their efficiencies, and stopped taking the advice if those wiser than them. IME those who have practiced an endeavor (sports, medicine, music, business, etc) for five years think that they have it figured out. Those in their game for 10 years think that they have mastered it. Once you reach the 20 - 25 year mark, IMO, it is the place where practitioners realize that they have just started their journey.

For the record.... I in no way think that I am a good skier. I see things that I need to work on, and the list is long. I've also had the gift of rubbing elbows with the sport's best either as friends, coaches or athletes that I sponsored. I actively seek out advise of those wiser than me and clinic maybe 10 - 20 days a year. What I am however, is wise enough to know that I don't know everything, and to continue my journey of learning and mastery.

As I tell people - Enjoy The Journey.
Yea but......I may for example say to myself after skiing a given run.. "hey, that was pretty darn good skiing there" and may even think it as its happening. Conversely I may say "that felt like crap". In the first one, Im sort of bragging to myself (or at least feeling happy or a bit proud). But in no way do I think I got it all beat. So weather you brag to your own self or out loud it doesn't at all have to mean you now think your above advice and improvement. Many the finest athletes in the world are braggers with huge egos and still many of those same people are always looking for more to learn and more improvement.

I get your point well but its far too much of a generalization to say those who brag are not good. In fact sometimes it can also be those who don't brag and instead find themselves "above" bragging status who think they have reached a place of perfection when they really also havnt. There are braggers who fall well into your description. But there are also braggers who don't. Everyone is different.
 
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martyg

martyg

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Yea but......I may for example say to myself after skiing a given run.. "hey, that was pretty darn good skiing there" and may even think it as its happening. Conversely I may say "that felt like crap". In the first one, Im sort of bragging to myself (or at least feeling happy or a bit proud). But in no way do I think I got it all beat. So weather you brag to your own self or out loud it doesn't at all have to mean you now think your above advice and improvement. Many the finest athletes in the world are braggers with huge egos and still many of those same people are always looking for more to learn and more improvement.

I get your point well but its far too much of a generalization to say those who brag are not good. In fact sometimes it can also be those who don't brag and instead find themselves "above" bragging status who think they have reached a place of perfection when they really also havnt. There are braggers who fall well into your description. But there are also braggers who don't. Everyone is different.

Agreed to all. I think we are limited by the format in which we are participating. Let's discuss over a beverage some time. Enjoy!
 

Goose

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Exactly, no one tries to make a bad turn and most everyone tries to make great clean turns but does everyone try and improve each run or turn? To me it's the very nature of being on skis as every turn on every run is a new experience to be enjoyed. Now if you make turns for a living the scenario changes a bit but the enjoyment factor still needs to be fed.
yes think there are those who do. You see Imo, the idea itself of trying to make clean turns is a form of trying to improve. I think its the same thing. Trying to make great turns (or have great from I'll call it) is in a way practice that never stops. That in itself I would say is a goal towards improving whether you may realize it or not.
Imo , whatever your doing, so long as your trying to do it the correct way means your always trying to improve at it.
 

Goose

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Agreed to all. I think we are limited by the format in which we are participating. Let's discuss over a beverage some time. Enjoy!
communicating via written text is not without its flaws for certain. But I think I have a good grasp on the gist of your posts in this thread.
 

SpikeDog

You want Big Air, kid?
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The good skier
is one who doesn't scare me
when I look up the hill,
and they're skiing toward me.

I completely agree with this one!

It takes about half a second to determine whether that moving object above me is something I need to be worried about.

Do you wonder why it only takes that 1/2 second to determine ski ability? Because you can just know it. Maybe you couldn't when you first started skiing, but 10-20 years in, you can detect it almost instantly. You can sense the total package. And when that skier is one of those one-in-a-million skiers like Plake or Coombs, you can see that almost instantly too. Economy of motion is part of it, I can't express what it is exactly.

For instance, when instructors cut down the herd for the Jackson Hole Steep & Deep Camp, they watch about 15 seconds of someone skiing a mogul field. By the time the skier is flying past the instructors, they've placed that skier in one of 12 or so groups by ability. Boom! That fast, and they almost always nail it.
 

Andy Mink

Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
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@Philpug and I were talking about this on the lift this morning. There are lots of technical aspects to a good skier--angulation, control, edging, etc. To me, with my limited ski vocabulary, I said a good skier is like good art. I can't really explain it but I know it when I see it. Good skiers don't have to be perfect. There are plenty of good/great skiers who have flaws. Perhaps they lean into the turn too much or their arms are too close or far, but they're still "good" skiers.
 

Crank

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Like Justice Stewart, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], (or the good skier) and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it,"
 

RuleMiHa

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That may be true to a point, but at some point you are going to just want to go out and enjoy being on the mountain. Maybe we should not think about every movement as making us better skiers but think about the over all skiing experience. Does it really matter if one turn is ugly after you made three or four good ones? I have as much fun skiing a blue trail as I do skiing a black trail although I ski the black trail a little slower and not as technically good looking. So at some point it does not matter if every movement is perfect just ENJOY what we do, SKI...
This is true but to me becoming technically proficient opens up more of the mountain I can ski without fear. I can plan a trip west without worrying about the difference between an east coast blue and a west coast blue, I can get on a lift without worrying that the "easiest way down" won't be easy enough in a pinch. I don't enjoy feeling out of control skiing and the technical improvements I'm seeking give me that control and confidence.

I still remember the first run where "I" skied my skis, instead of my skis "Skiing Me", it felt AMAZING! It was the technical details that made the difference when I got that feeling. Being balanced on the outside ski, forward enough, but not too much, with appropriate upper body separation, gives me control. Which makes me happy.

That's why I want technical proficiency, not because I care about other people's opinions.
 

lonewolf210

Jake K.
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Aug 24, 2016
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Las Vegas, NV
Let me see If I can answer.....

It is about approaching life and everything as a beginner so that you are always in a position to learn. The person who considers themselves and "expert', a "master" is the person who has stopped taking a critical look at their efficiencies, and stopped taking the advice if those wiser than them. IME those who have practiced an endeavor (sports, medicine, music, business, etc) for five years think that they have it figured out. Those in their game for 10 years think that they have mastered it. Once you reach the 20 - 25 year mark, IMO, it is the place where practitioners realize that they have just started their journey.

I kind of get what your getting at but I also fundamentally disagree. Being good has nothing to do with thinking your above advice. Even the best have coaches but if someone like Jordan Spieth said they weren't good at golf it would be false humility, they KNOW they are good. There is a point where you are good and there are people that reach that level or lower and think they have nothing left to learn but the vast majority of people that get to the level of what I consider "good" got there because they are always striving to be better. That does necessarily mean every run or even every day they are doing nothing but thinking about every move they make but there is a conscious effort to improve. I have personally met very few "good" athletes, whatever the sport may be, that thought they knew everything already.
 

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