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Tuned my side edges and then I decided to tune the based edges...

Atomicman

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Run a hard gummi down the edge with no pressure. I always test my edges by brushing my fingers outwards from ptex to edge in multiple swipes moving from one end to another. If I feel drag on my skin, I focus on that area, especially seeing if my nail catches a burr.
I will add, do this flat along the base edge, ski in vise side edge up, base away from you. An Arkansas stone or Surgical stone works better than a gummi. Final step would hard gummy at a 45 degrees to edge point with absolutely no pressure.
 
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Atomicman

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So FP, I am gonna come at this from a different direction.

Why is it recommended that you do all routine maintenance on the side edge, including resetting the side edge with a file. But once the base edge is set, you should not touch it?

Additionally, why can a side edge be changed from a 1 to 2 degree or from a 2 to a 3 and still go back to a 1 without stone a grind. Once your base bevel is beveled more than desired, the base and edges must be ground flat again to reduce the base bevel. Not so with Side Edge bevel. Again it can be changed at will up or down.


Can you answer either of these questions?
 

François Pugh

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I already did.
I rarely file the base edge because removing material from it removes material from the base and moves the edge farther from the snow.
If you ski hard man made snow and apply the brakes often, the base bevel will grow. That's why I file it. I file it about (rough estimate - not counting) once every 75 days.
 

Jacques

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Saying I am dead wrong is not an explanation, even though you may be right.
Until I hear a reasonable explanation on how a metal file guide and metal file can be used to accurately file one side of an edge, but not the other I'll remain unconvinced.
Sure, a poor workman can screw anything up, even with the right tools, but that's not what I'm talking about.

When done correctly I believe the base bevel can become "longer" without any significant change to the angle.
A longer base bevel will have the base edge lifted a bit higher from the snow due only to it's length.
If one applies any pressure beyond the edge when working the base, then, because of flex in the stone or file, it can create a slightly higher degree of base bevel.
Don't allow any flexing of whatever you are using. Keep all the pressure directly over the steel. Do not apply any pressure beyond the edge.
At any rate, if the base edge has damage, the high spots from the damage should be removed to maintain the skis performance.
 
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Sibhusky

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But the reason we don't like that base bevel getting higher is because it's raising the actual edge from the snow. Which requires more lean to engage. So, either way, not what you want. If you were compensating for the long (to me, wide) bevel by then flattening the ptex that would be one thing, but leaving it like that?
 

Atomicman

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You complelel
I already did.
I rarely file the base edge because removing material from it removes material from the base and moves the edge farther from the snow. It removes more metal
If you ski hard man made snow and apply the brakes often, the base bevel will grow. That's why I file it. I file it about (rough estimate - not counting) once every 75 days. So your base bevel is already too big and you file it some more?????


You missed the point of my questions and you did not answer......why! So I will give you a hand. The reason is you can easily over bevel the base but you cannot over bevel the side edge. This has nothing to do with a long bevel or braking on hard snow or man made snow. Just the fact that you tip your ski "on edge" slowly wears the base edge bevel and increases the base edge bevel. And you totally ignored the fact you can change side edge bevel angle at will up or down!
 

Jacques

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But the reason we don't like that base bevel getting higher is because it's raising the actual edge from the snow. Which requires more lean to engage. So, either way, not what you want. If you were compensating for the long (to me, wide) bevel by then flattening the ptex that would be one thing, but leaving it like that?

Sure, that's true, but it makes for a faster ski and some folks don't want a super quickly engaging edge.
Some folks like a ski that needs to be tipped up on edge to really get engagement. So, some people DO WANT that!
Many that don't ski fast, and don't really get high edge angles do prefer a ski that hooks-up with only a very slight tipping of the ski.
So..........it really depends on the way a skier wants their skis to handle. Neither way is wrong. It's just a choice.
 

Atomicman

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You'll find that even using a guide, you're increasing the bevel. Gradually that stone in the guide won't be touching the base edge, even using non-flexing ceramic and Arkansas stones. It'll only clip off part of the burr from tuning. Now, does the average tuner stop hitting the edge when that happens? I'm guessing they'll still feel the remains of the burr and hit it some more. Maybe using the gummy, maybe bearing down a bit on the stone. But it's time for a stone grind when all your stone is affecting is the air. Some won't care if the bevel has become a 2 as soon as others will. But your bite on ice will require that much more effort. And it'll be back to the shop to remove ptex or you'll be going through Jacques's long bevel and then a flatten process. I've managed to avoid having the shop touch them for a while, but, they're due. Not for base flatness, not for structure, but because of base beveling. It's been a few years, I've been careful, but.. That bevel has increased. That's why you'll hear some here asking for a .7 on the base. So they can put off the inevitable longer. (Then of course you have to track down a .7° guide...)

So, leave the base edge alone except to get the "outies". Certainly there will be polished "innies". Leave them alone on the base.
SVST makes a .7 guide. And the reason I like a .7 is not to delay the next grind, it is because it is a great edge angle for skiing. .5 is too abrupt for me and 1 can feel a little loose, but is generally very good as long is it is no more than a true 1.
 

crgildart

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If I go to the trouble of hitting the base at all I go all the way.. 0 totally flat. Usually leave it as it came until the ski gets more than 20-30 days on it, more often well in to 50 days. I do sides at 3 fairly regularly.
 

Atomicman

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Sure, that's true, but it makes for a faster ski and some folks don't want a super quickly engaging edge.
Some folks like a ski that needs to be tipped up on edge to really get engagement. So, some people DO WANT that!
Many that don't ski fast, and don't really get high edge angles do prefer a ski that hooks-up with only a very slight tipping of the ski.
So..........it really depends on the way a skier wants their skis to handle. Neither way is wrong. It's just a choice.
It makes the ski faster??? Maybe important if you are racing DH or SG and they timing to a 100th of a sec. :rolleyes:
 

Viking9

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I didn’t like the 5 on my new rippers either A-Man , I had the same feeling you talked about and did the .75 and it was a lot more agreeable for me.
The tune thing is new for me and you really can tell even the smallest adjustments.
( Initially I thought it was the 3 on the side but the guy explained how it was the base setting)
 

CalG

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Sure, that's true, but it makes for a faster ski and some folks don't want a super quickly engaging edge.
Some folks like a ski that needs to be tipped up on edge to really get engagement. So, some people DO WANT that!
Many that don't ski fast, and don't really get high edge angles do prefer a ski that hooks-up with only a very slight tipping of the ski.
So..........it really depends on the way a skier wants their skis to handle. Neither way is wrong. It's just a choice.

Actually, A longer bevel, and "higher" edge do NOT require one to tip more. angles are angles.
 

Jacques

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Actually, A longer bevel, and "higher" edge do NOT require one to tip more. angles are angles.

Yea, like base bevel angles just don't matter. :roflmao:
 

Jacques

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Your point is unclear.

Base bevel ANGLES do matter in regard to tipping. The Length of the bevel does not/

Well......I would not say that, but you can.
 

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